Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[steve863]

You keep using the term "mature bucks" like your motive for AR's is one of conservation and not about killing bigger trophy class bucks. I know that most of the QDMers talk a great game about management and actually know quite a bit about good deer management. But lets call a spade a spade here and admit that the real motive here for AR's has little to do with QDMers caring about healthy herds and habitats and more about creating super sized bucks to kill... and that's okay... but let's be honest about the real motivation. I've said this many times on here, but I'll say it again anyways for those that think I know nothing about the QDM movement... I was one of the first to introduce the program to NY back in 1990's and was one of the only hunters actively doing seminars on the subject promoting it's benefit as a management tool given our diminishing habitat in NY... I have watched it slowly move from deer management to deer farming for trophy bucks...

That there is the truth. QDM is TROPHY management and nothing more.

[steve863]

And as much as I love a great rack, a few years ago there was a 150" class but had half his rack busted off and I planned to shoot him if I got a bow shot because there are not many 5.5+ old bucks running my area.

Oh how sad! You would have settled for a half racked 5.5 year old. We really feel your pain.

[wildcat junkie]

You missed the numerous posts where I've stated I'm not for statewide AR. I'd be happy with one buck and a shorter gun season. 

 

I'm not knee deep in the QDM movement but I do believe their stance is not pushing for AR so I think you're off point. 

 

And as much as I love a great rack, a few years ago there was a 150" class but had half his rack busted off and I planned to shoot him if I got a bow shot because there are not many 5.5+ old bucks running my area. 

It would seem a shame to shoot a broken rack when next year he would most likely grow an even better set of antlers.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It would seem a shame to shoot a broken rack when next year he would most likely grow an even better set of antlers.

But if the end goal as so many has said here is hunting and harvesting a mature deer, why not take him? The other half of the rack didn't make him smarter and he a a dumber , easier animal to hunt since he lost it?

[Lawdwaz]

It would seem a shame to shoot a broken rack when next year he would most likely grow an even better set of antlers.

 

If he really knew it was 5.5 years old (and I doubt that) that would be quite a buck to kill, IMO.

 

Can't eat the horns..........the meat can be marinated. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'm not knee deep in the QDM movement but I do believe their stance is not pushing for AR so I think you're off point.

Are you talking about the process of quality deer management or the actual organization QDMA? One is an organization and one isn't. Edited January 10, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Four Season Whitetail's]

But if the end goal as so many has said here is hunting and harvesting a mature deer, why not take him? The other half of the rack didn't make him smarter and he a a dumber , easier animal to hunt since he lost it?

There is other mature bucks with full racks. For some its all meat, for others..We like the meat and the jewels that go with it.  No real reason. Just a choice.

[growalot]

 

  No real reason. Just a choice.

 

 

 There ya go and one that doesn't need to be forced on all...thus the meaning of CHOICE

[MountainHunter]

I have long grown weary of these conversations. Between the people who aren't honest with their rationale as to why they shoot what they shoot, and poachers who shoot multiple small bucks every year on their tags and the tags of others and then complain about not seeing any big bucks in the areas they hunt.

On whole we are not the brightest group around (hunters) and this makes us easy pickings for those who oppose our views and way of life, between our apathy,divisiveness and ignorance we are pretty much doomed or the next generation of us is.

Excluding the young hunters or the first time hunters (I know some here get enraged if we deny a new hunter the ability to kill a spike horn) If you were in a deer rich area (assured of seeing deer almost every time you go out) and it is the last day of the season and you have a buck tag and a DMAP tag in your pocket and you see a 1 1/2 year old buck and some mature does in the same group of deer.(the assumption being that you have a clean ethical shot at all of them) If you choose to drop the 1 1/2 year old buck you are as much of an antler whore as those of us who hold out for a mature buck and you are lying to yourself and everyone else if you say that isn't the case.

Edited January 10, 2015 by MountainHunter

[Lawdwaz]

 There ya go and one that doesn't need to be forced on all...thus the meaning of CHOICE

 

I have seen such a change in thinking in the past 10 years  guys I hunt with and many many others I know in regard to "letting 'em walk".  I believe that that kind of thinking is what has helped to let some of these bucks get a little more age and consequently bigger head gear.

 

Ten years ago you shot the first buck you saw on opening day and were damned happy to.  These days many but not all of my friends/family will pass a young buck on the first day and maybe for the first couple weeks.....some end up with an unfilled tag, others may shoot a 1.5 old buck and rarely but occasionally a few will shoot an older mature buck.

 

"Letting 'em walk" is great, but choice is better. 

[jjb4900]

I have long grown weary of these conversations. Between the people who aren't honest with their rationale as to why they shoot what they shoot, and poachers who shoot multiple small bucks every year on their tags and the tags of others and then complain about not seeing any big bucks in the areas they hunt.

On whole we are not the brightest group around (hunters) and this makes us easy pickings for those who oppose our views and way of life, between our apathy,divisiveness and ignorance we are pretty much doomed or the next generation of us is.

Excluding the young hunters or the first time hunters (I know some here get enraged if we deny a new hunter the ability to kill a spike horn) If you were in a deer rich area (assured of seeing deer almost every time you go out) and it is the last day of the season and you have a buck tag and a DMAP tag in your pocket and you see a 1 1/2 year old buck and some mature does in the same group of deer.(the assumption being that you have a clean ethical shot at all of them) If you choose to drop the 1 1/2 year old buck you are as much of an antler whore as those of us who hold out for a mature buck and you are lying to yourself and everyone else if you say that isn't the case.

I'm sorry to hear that you're not very bright, and perhaps you associate with others of similar intelligence, giving you the impression that hunters are not very smart.....hopefully it's not hereditary and you won't be passing it on to future generations..........but please don't generalize and assume that the majority of  hunters are "not the brightest group around".

[nyantler]

You missed the numerous posts where I've stated I'm not for statewide AR. I'd be happy with one buck and a shorter gun season. 

 

I'm not knee deep in the QDM movement but I do believe their stance is not pushing for AR so I think you're off point. 

 

And as much as I love a great rack, a few years ago there was a 150" class but had half his rack busted off and I planned to shoot him if I got a bow shot because there are not many 5.5+ old bucks running my area. 

 

I wasn't saying you were knee deep in QDM... and you're right the QDMA isn't adamant about mandatory AR's.. but many who spout their support for the QDM movement only speak about the trophy creating portion of it and fail to acknowledge all the other parts of deer management that go along with healthy herd and habitat developement... my points weren't necessarily about you personally, but more about the basic motivations of those that would use QDM but really know little about what the QDMA and QDM is and how it began. My point still stands that most AR backers, are backing it for selfish reasons and not solid deer management reasons.

 

I notice however that in your last paragraph you still are talking about a bigger buck and nothing about AR's as a part of proper deer management... which is exactly what I'm talking about... it always seems to get back to how big of a buck someone will be able to shoot next year if they pass on a buck and nothing about how it lets the younger bucks step in and fill the next age position.

 

One buck and a shorter gun season also does nothing for proper deer management and population control... it only makes for a broader buck population for those that want to see more bigger bucks... and opens up a whole other can of worms for how deer populations will be controlled in NY with less hunters, less hunting days and less animals being taken.

[Untwisted Pretzel logic]

Absolutely against AR or trophy hunting whatever you want to call it; it's all the same.  A buck is a buck is a buck, whether it's a spike or a 10 point. They can breed does just the same.  

 

No one should be embarrassed to shoot a spike or have to explain it to anyone else when they are providing food for their family and enjoying the outdoors.  How we got to these AR rules is just crazy and amounts to political b.s.

 

 

 

 

[Five Seasons]

I absolutely agree, just like I believe that those with marginal deer herds, and without the means to afford leases, or heavily populated deer havens should be punished with over regulation and a raising of the bar in areas where the current bar is already nearly out of reach.

And that's another reason why I ride the fence with ARs

I'd rather spend my money lounging at a swim up bar at a Jamaican or Mexican resort 2 or 3 times a year than investing it in chasing the giant mystical whitetail..........I can satisfy my hunting needs for next to nothing a few miles from home on public land and will continue to do so until I can't for one reason or another.

You and I are in the same boat for the most part, but I think you have to respect that some would rather spend their money on a lease or rifle. Land fwiw can be an investment btw.

I think that's were they need to tread very lightly, any major changes too quickly could drastically effect hunter participation.....there's no question that there are areas that would have little effect on hunter satisfaction with the implementation of AR's because they probably see numerous shooter bucks that exceed the AR limit and they offer greater opportunities to obtain DMP's based on a high deer population...other areas, not so much.

Agreed

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[Five Seasons]

Why ain't you SPECIAL..??..

Perhaps not everybody is LOOKING for a challenge..

Perhaps many of us just want to enjoy the sport and the outdoors and a chance to put a deer or two in the freezer..

You want a CHALLENGE....

Okay, that's your perogative... Just keep in mind that MANY of the folks that buy hunting licenses just want the opportunity to enjoy hunting with a reasonable chance of taking home some game..

I'd still continue to argue the areas that would probably get ARs have plenty of doe for the hunter you describe.

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[Five Seasons]

You guys constantly want to degrade so called "trophy hunters" and "antler worshipers", etc. We don't get on here and call you "bambi killer" so I ask who's the problem here? No one even knows it when I kill a big buck and I see more meat hunters with their antlered "avatar".

Ain't that the truth

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[Five Seasons]

Absolutely against AR or trophy hunting whatever you want to call it; it's all the same. A buck is a buck is a buck, whether it's a spike or a 10 point. They can breed does just the same.

No one should be embarrassed to shoot a spike or have to explain it to anyone else when they are providing food for their family and enjoying the outdoors. How we got to these AR rules is just crazy and amounts to political b.s.

You need some research on genetics if you believe a buck is a buck.

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[G-Man]

I agree with joe,most hunters who are pushing the trophy management do not have a clue about population density,habitat creation.

manipulating genetics and letting em grow old is all they get out of a seminar. If you have the right habitat you will see deer. The properties will be conducive to allowing deer to reach an older age regardless of what you do.

I know I can't see further than 50 yards on over 100 acres I own and am asked how we take 15-20 deer a year off the property. It's managed for it! We take a few big ones and a few little ones with the focus on adult doe harvest. The bucks just come and stay due to habitat, and lack of harassment.

[JFB]

It would seem a shame to shoot a broken rack when next year he would most likely grow an even better set of antlers.

 

My goodness... We get called trophy hunters, antler maniacs and every other degrading term and I try to explain I tried to shoot a half rack mature deer and several of you jump on it. Fact remains, it was a 150" animal (full rack) and yes it was minimum of 4.5 and likely 5.5 yrs old. I'd shoot it because it was rare and mature. Heck, if I said I'd pass because half the rack was lost you'd call me an antler snob. Which ever way the wind blows... 

[First-light]

Tomorrow the DEC will institute the new guide rules for deer hunting in NYS. How do I know this…..I don't just making it up. 

What I want to know is what you would settle for in your region. State you region and one of the scenarios in the article but not no change.

Mine is for 8P we have a pretty good deer herd and a lot  of bucks around. They didn't give many doe permits this year. 

 

I would vote for the 1 buck rule.

[Untwisted Pretzel logic]

cutbait, on 10 Jan 2015 - 3:05 PM, said:

Absolutely against AR or trophy hunting whatever you want to call it; it's all the same. A buck is a buck is a buck, 

No one should be embarrassed to shoot a spike or have to explain it to anyone else when they are providing food for their family and enjoying the outdoors. How we got to these AR rules is just crazy and amounts to political b.s.

You need some research on genetics if you believe a buck is a buck.


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• Like This

In his book, Beyond Fair Chase, Jim Posewitz noted, “The most important measure of hunting success is how you feel about yourself…”

 

I love your quote above about hunting sucess, however, it is somewhat counter to pushing for AR or Trophy hunting regs.  

 

You need some research on genetics if you believe a buck is a buck.

Additionally if you are really concerned about genetics you would not be pushing for AR restrictions.  Do some research and you will find that AR restrictions are not about improving the gene pool.  

 

 

To me a buck is a buck and I will feel good about whatever I shoot.  I wish the same for all hunters.  Best of luck to you.  

 

  

 

 

 

[Five Seasons]

I agree with joe,most hunters who are pushing the trophy management do not have a clue about population density,habitat creation.

manipulating genetics and letting em grow old is all they get out of a seminar. If you have the right habitat you will see deer. The properties will be conducive to allowing deer to reach an older age regardless of what you do.

I know I can't see further than 50 yards on over 100 acres I own and am asked how we take 15-20 deer a year off the property. It's managed for it! We take a few big ones and a few little ones with the focus on adult doe harvest. The bucks just come and stay due to habitat, and lack of harassment.

To let deer grow old you need at least 500 acres. That's not many of us. So if you have 100, the argument comes into play when your self imposed ARs aren't working because your neighbors don't practice the same. I'm not trying to advocate with this post, just hoping to enlighten some in why some would like ARs.

[Lawdwaz]

Tomorrow the DEC will institute the new guide rules for deer hunting in NYS. How do I know this…..I don't just making it up. 

What I want to know is what you would settle for in your region. State you region and one of the scenarios in the article but not no change.

Mine is for 8P we have a pretty good deer herd and a lot  of bucks around. They didn't give many doe permits this year. 

 

I would vote for the 1 buck rule.

 

Why play games?

[Five Seasons]

cutbait, on 10 Jan 2015 - 3:05 PM, said:

You need some research on genetics if you believe a buck is a buck.

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• Like This

In his book, Beyond Fair Chase, Jim Posewitz noted, “The most important measure of hunting success is how you feel about yourself…”

I love your quote above about hunting sucess, however, it is somewhat counter to pushing for AR or Trophy hunting regs.

You need some research on genetics if you believe a buck is a buck.

Additionally if you are really concerned about genetics you would not be pushing for AR restrictions. Do some research and you will find that AR restrictions are not about improving the gene pool.

To me a buck is a buck and I will feel good about whatever I shoot. I wish the same for all hunters. Best of luck to you.

Please show me where I'm pushing for them? I'm a fence sitter. I lean towards them. But I'm not leading the charge.

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Why ain't you SPECIAL..??..

Perhaps not everybody is LOOKING for a challenge..

Perhaps many of us just want to enjoy the sport and the outdoors and a chance to put a deer or two in the freezer..

You want a CHALLENGE....

Okay, that's your perogative... Just keep in mind that MANY of the folks that buy hunting licenses just want the opportunity to enjoy hunting with a reasonable chance of taking home some game..

That's the smartest statement made on this board yet ...

I totally agree...