Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[Doc]

Which of course is the whole point for me. There is no way I will go afield with a bow if the countryside is ringing out with gunfire. Bow only works if there is a quite pre-gun period. I would be OK with a shorter bow season if it came down to it, but that is an entirely different proposition.  Bow and accessory manufactures will be pissed I imagine, if Bow season is effectively snuffed out.

Oh come on. Where's your sense of fun. Don't you like the carnival atmosphere where you get all dressed up in your blaze orange finery wave at all the guys as they stumble past your stand? Look, your getting too hung up on all the skill and challenge of actually studying the habits of an un-stressed herd and trying to pattern the natural movements of deer and trying to figure out how to set up a harvest through outsmarting the critter. Let all the other hunters do the work for you. It will be like one huge all-day drive where you can test out your shooting skills at the panicked deer dashing by. Gee, doesn't that sound like fun?

[WNYBuckHunter]

So, you are a hunter of all seasons? So you have appx 2 months to get that big buck. 

 

I dont think you understand the point. That doesnt surprise me in the least.

 

I also dont think you understand anything about me or how/why I hunt, or what I do to give back to the youth, and hunting community. You can keep throwing other people/groups facebook sites or links out there all you want, but it all sounds like blah blah blah blah blah to me.

[fasteddie]

Eddie- It's not whether I can get a doe or even a buck that has me upset. It is simply the stupidity of the change, and the fact that the DEC seems to be going out of their way to single out bowhunters with the responsibility of maintaining deer population management (or else!). Their current attitudes toward bowhunters indicates that they really have a problem with bowhunters occupying some premium season time and intend to change that situation, which of course cannot bode well for anyone who enjoys the change of pace that bowhunting provides. I too have a pile of days to fill the freezer, but still the shoddy treatment and strong-arm tactics being used on bowhunters is pretty irritating to me. And so, I am not ok with it.

 

Doc , I don't disagree with what you are saying . Maybe I am burying my head in the sand but I don't need another thing to be P.O''ed about . At my age , I don't need the stress . And to some others , it probably looks like I have the " it doesn't affect me , so I don't care attitude" . In my younger years , I would be mad as hell !

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc , I don't disagree with what you are saying . Maybe I am burying my head in the sand but I don't need another thing to be P.O''ed about . At my age , I don't need the stress . And to some others , it probably looks like I have the " it doesn't affect me , so I don't care attitude" . In my younger years , I would be mad as hell !

 

But back then the telegraph didn't get work around as quickly...lol

[Nomad]

Rob while I may in theory have all that time to kill a big buck, in practice I don't .

Around me within say 1/2 mile or a bit more from my spot there will be 4 or 5 slobs taken prior to opening day of gun .

Last year in bow I had 6 encounters with large bucks( out of 14 hunts) , most a little out of bow range , one ten yards but bad angle and to much brush . Such is bow.....

I had zero encounters last gun season .

I'm a hunter , not a "bow hunter" or " gun hunter" or "ML Hunter ", but I know when my best chances are and hunt accordingly.

I don't expect to catch a Bass in a Trout stream and I don't expect to see the same number of large bucks in gun much past opening day .

[dbHunterNY]

more I talk to DEC the more I think their system needs tweaking.  they factor in some other input just a little but basically they use the citizen task force to come up with a buck take objective.  then look at if you were over or under it the previous year or couple years to determine how many doe permits and doe they want taken.  for each buck taken over the objective I believe they assume that should've been an adult doe.  so say for WMU 8H  8.1-13 doe where taken per sq mile in last season.  buck take was 5 versus 3 bucks per sq mile, so this year DEC fully expects those in 8H to take 15+ doe per square mile and for you to take only 3 bucks per square mile this coming season.  decreased buck opportunity assumed.  however, it seems to be a lag system that's based on a screwed up buck take objective. if you still exceed your BTO it'll just tack on more doe.  just 2 more deer per square mile seems easily achieved.  However, when you factor in successful hunters shoot only what they need to fill the freezer each year and some areas with little to no take at all due to access or hunter choice not to shoot a doe, that 2 extra deer per square mile starts to snowball into a bigger number.  further messing things up is their system functions assuming equal opportunity for harvest and that nothing 1.5+ yrs old is passed up.  didn't get to ask much about 4J but found out 20% of land in 4C is composed of only 2 co-ops passing younger deer.  we are then under buck take objective and in turn get a decreased number of doe tags.  there's a slight over abundance of deer here as a result.  by screwing up your BTO in those region 8 and 9 WMUs and with the functional lag in the system, your results are doomed in the eyes of DEC to appear lacking luster.  in my opinion knowing the numbers DEC would like to achieve only helps so much.

[WNYBuckHunter]

But back then the telegraph didn't get work around as quickly...lol

 

Telegraph? When Eddie started hunting, they were chiseling messages on stone tablets!

[Doc]

Doc , I don't disagree with what you are saying . Maybe I am burying my head in the sand but I don't need another thing to be P.O''ed about . At my age , I don't need the stress . And to some others , it probably looks like I have the " it doesn't affect me , so I don't care attitude" . In my younger years , I would be mad as hell !

 

I understand what you are saying, and believe me, I know that I get entirely too excited about these things when you consider how many years I actually have left to bowhunt. I know that I am staring at the final couple years of my participation. It probably is a bit silly for me to worry that much about what bow season is turning into. But unfortunately, I do get worried that the future of an activity that has meant so much to me over all these decades is being eroded piece by piece into something that I don't even recognize anymore. It's hard to watch all the gains that bowhunters fought so hard to establish being dismantled by some forced, whacked-out, DEC ideas of a weird half-bred version of a bow/gun season that basically destroys so much of what bowhunting is all about.

 

I guess it's just human nature to try to preserve something that has always been the focus of so much of my life. I am not likely to change, so I keep on fighting, even if it really is a losing fight.....lol.

 

[jjb4900]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say guys would be pissed at any regulation that would dictate when or where they can shoot a buck.....whether it be what they just passed or if it was an earn a buck rule, nobody is gonna be totally happy no matter what the change is.

[growalot]

for me I disagree ...see here is the thing with earn a buck I am given the opportunity to take the doe I normally would  as soon as possible leaving me all the rest of the time to hunt what ever...if a big one walks by then it's Oh well luck of the draw.  But with this It is a set 2 weeks period!...nothing to work towards...you could shoot your tag limit the first day and still be stuck not being able to hunt the rest of the 2 weeks..BS!!

[DirtTime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsEwK69LXjQ

[jjb4900]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsEwK69LXjQ

hahaha...

[DirtTime]

Ya like that jjb?

Here's something a little heavier for those of us that like or music heavy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CprfjfN5PRs

Edited August 16, 2015 by ....rob

[Doc]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say guys would be pissed at any regulation that would dictate when or where they can shoot a buck.....whether it be what they just passed or if it was an earn a buck rule, nobody is gonna be totally happy no matter what the change is.

It's not about being resistant to change. It is about the ignorant and biased way in which it is being done. I would have thought that would be plain by now after 35 pages.

[Five Seasons]

How many people in this thread that are irritated with the changes hunt with a rifle or shotgun or ML as well as a bow?

Look at my pole. Almost all.

[Five Seasons]

Oh come on. Where's your sense of fun. Don't you like the carnival atmosphere where you get all dressed up in your blaze orange finery wave at all the guys as they stumble past your stand? Look, your getting too hung up on all the skill and challenge of actually studying the habits of an un-stressed herd and trying to pattern the natural movements of deer and trying to figure out how to set up a harvest through outsmarting the critter. Let all the other hunters do the work for you. It will be like one huge all-day drive where you can test out your shooting skills at the panicked deer dashing by. Gee, doesn't that sound like fun?

Gun season is kind of fun in its own way because of that atmosphere. It just has no place in archery. Both seasons represent 2 totally different emotions and goals and strategies for me. It's what I really love about hunting. Just when I'm sick of the stick and string and scent control and deer just out of range, in comes the gun with pumpkins and their 870s in orange jump suits pushing deer right to me.

Oh well I guess it'll all blend together soon.

[Doc]

Gun season is kind of fun in its own way because of that atmosphere. It just has no place in archery. Both seasons represent 2 totally different emotions and goals and strategies for me. It's what I really love about hunting. Just when I'm sick of the stick and string and scent control and deer just out of range, in comes the gun with pumpkins and their 870s in orange jump suits pushing deer right to me.

Oh well I guess it'll all blend together soon.

They really are two entirely different kinds of hunts and I also like each one for their uniqueness.

 

For me the bowhunting is a solitary kind of hunting that requires some heavy scouting and patterning of a relatively undisturbed deer herd with hopefully there still being a roughly repetitive feeding and bedding routine and some traditional rutting patterns that are again unbroken by excessive hunter activity. The bow is a short range weapon, so that the shooting distances are limited and requires a bit more solace and lack of interference.

 

Gun season gets to be a more social event where friends and family gather for all the strategy B.S. sessions and the time when hunting partners go on joint excursions for stand locating and construction. And there are the pre-season target sessions for those that waited to the last minute to zero in those guns. And then there is the magic of opening day when the woods explodes with activity and all the shooting starts and that super anticipation that the orange army will push that deer in your expanded circle of gun range capability. It is quite exciting and all that stuff has its appeal too.

 

Each form of hunting has its different styles of challenges and their separate kinds of fun and their separate kinds of requirements. And each style has certain aspects that interfere with the other. They were always kept separate because they are separate in all aspects and ways that they are conducted. I like them both, in their proper (and separate) times. Too bad the DEC doesn't have a clue about those differences or even care that there are differences.

[nyantler]

 Too bad the DEC doesn't have a clue about those differences or even care that there are differences.

I think the real problem is that they fail to see the importance of keeping hunters happy while still doing conservation a good service. Keeping the hunter population up has got to be in the equation... it makes a good management plan possible especially when population control is the goal. The DEC won't get far by pissing off any faction of the hunting population.

[Bendog]

Bingo, nyantler.....I wrote about this in the Aug. 21 issue of NY Outdoor News....when hunters are THE management tool they need to be on board with any regulatory move in order to have it be a success....

[The_Real_TCIII]

I'd like to see some simple math on this: bow hunters in those zones, success rates, and number of does they want taken

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'd like to see some simple math on this: bow hunters in those zones, success rates, and number of does they want taken

 

I havent talked to a bow hunter yet that is going to bother hunting the first 15 days this year. I wont be putting all kinds of pressure on my spots so I can let mature deer walk by, bust me and be more spooky for the rest of the season. Back to the old opening season date.

 

In other words, the typical success rate and hunter numbers are going to plummet for two weeks.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I havent talked to a bow hunter yet that is going to bother hunting the first 15 days this year. I wont be putting all kinds of pressure on my spots so I can let mature deer walk by, bust me and be more spooky for the rest of the season. Back to the old opening season date.

 

In other words, the typical success rate and hunter numbers are going to plummet for two weeks.

And increase pressure in adjacent areas that will allow antlered hunting.

[dbHunterNY]

I'd like to see some simple math on this: bow hunters in those zones, success rates, and number of does they want taken

 

the only math and number of doe they want taken that you'll get is what I put in my previous post and then plug-in the numbers for your WMU (9F?).  not sure if you'll be able to find number of doe taken with a bow for there, but you won't find success rate I'd imagine.  doesn't matter though bowhunters can't do it alone.  more participation is needed across the board to achieve those numbers.  those that hammer doe don't need to take more and/or can't take more.  those that don't should do their part in taking doe or not discourage others to do so.

[dbHunterNY]

I havent talked to a bow hunter yet that is going to bother hunting the first 15 days this year. I wont be putting all kinds of pressure on my spots so I can let mature deer walk by, bust me and be more spooky for the rest of the season. Back to the old opening season date.

 

In other words, the typical success rate and hunter numbers are going to plummet for two weeks.

 

 

And increase pressure in adjacent areas that will allow antlered hunting.

 

while I think the tag will be purchased anyway and used otherwise, don't forget participation in late season will be dismal.  only those procrastinators or unlucky that still very much so need to freezer full will be out.

[The_Real_TCIII]

This is counter productive for me because now I won't hunt 9F until the 15th, and there's a good chance I would take a doe if I did. I never pass up a doe during archery but I can't sit if I have to pass a big buck should one show up.