SB 4739 - Establishes the yearling buck protection program

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Yeah no kidding..3 bucks...Then he can jump in his truck and go out and run down some of those great tasting Button Bucks!

Only if he has a cross hanging from the rear view

[dbHunterNY]

9 hours ago, stubby68 said:

I have no clue why it says I quoted u as saying that. That is part of a post I made. No idea what happened there but was not my doing.

no worries i just thought it was weird too.

[chrisw]

My trophies on the walls are animals I killed without trail cams without food plots most on state land...deer that have memories deer that have added a value to my hunting knowledge deer that I earned. To me that's a trophy. And Joe blow can pay money and go shoot a "trophy" in a fence under a feeder (not saying you do) but not everyone can kill deer on stateland or on heavily pressured small population private land. To me bone on the head has absolutly 0 meaning to me none zip nadda. If I saw a spike walking thru woods in front of a 10 point I'd end up killing the spike bc my blood is pumping so hard every time I see a deer whether big or small I get tunnel vision I go into a state of slow motion. If that doesn't happen for you I am sorry and maybe you should pick up coloring.

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I'll agree with most of what you said, the experience should be the trophy, but for some it's knowing they outwitted (or got lucky) the smarter deer in the woods that's part of that trophy. Now I don't know you personally and I'm not judging your deer kills but... You say the antlers mean absolutely nothing to you is something that someone who has never really killed anything with large antlers says (most of the time). I'm pretty certain that if you killed a large racked buck there would be 100 photos taken of that deers rack. Are you denying that could be partially true? I hunt only state land, same as you, ive killed a good buck the last 2 years with my bow on heavily hunted public land, it wouldn't have happened if I shot the first spike horn I saw. I know for a fact that when I killed my first good buck that I lost the drive to kill the 1.5yr old bucks almost completely. When I killed my 2nd good buck I knew right then that unless I had a terrible hunting season and the only thing keeping my freezer from empty was a 1.5yr old, I wouldn't shoot. It has nothing to do with fame or notoriety for me, we all progress as we go through our hunting careers. I see where you're coming from but to say killing an old buck isn't for you when you've never done it is premature. Maybe I'm off base with you, maybe you are an exception? But don't be surprised if in a few years you look back and realize what some of us are saying has some truth to it.

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[chas0218]

31 minutes ago, chrisw said:

 

I'll agree with most of what you said, the experience should be the trophy, but for some it's knowing they outwitted (or got lucky) the smarter deer in the woods that's part of that trophy. Now I don't know you personally and I'm not judging your deer kills but... You say the antlers mean absolutely nothing to you is something that someone who has never really killed anything with large antlers says (most of the time). I'm pretty certain that if you killed a large racked buck there would be 100 photos taken of that deers rack. Are you denying that could be partially true? I hunt only state land, same as you, ive killed a good buck the last 2 years with my bow on heavily hunted public land, it wouldn't have happened if I shot the first spike horn I saw. I know for a fact that when I killed my first good buck that I lost the drive to kill the 1.5yr old bucks almost completely. When I killed my 2nd good buck I knew right then that unless I had a terrible hunting season and the only thing keeping my freezer from empty was a 1.5yr old, I wouldn't shoot. It has nothing to do with fame or notoriety for me, we all progress as we go through our hunting careers. I see where you're coming from but to say killing an old buck isn't for you when you've never done it is premature. Maybe I'm off base with you, maybe you are an exception? But don't be surprised if in a few years you look back and realize what some of us are saying has some truth to it.

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Couldn't agree more, once I saw what my property had to offer and the deer that it can produce I was hooked. I killed my biggest buck by pure luck, never saw him before I killed him never knew he was even in the woods. My father, grandfather, myself all made a deal to only shoot deer with 10 points or larger. There is nothing like seeing and hearing how the deer interact with one another when there is a solid age structure. 

 

@stoneam2006 FWIW I start to shake like a leaf if a fawn walks out, breathing gets all jumpy, lump in the throat stuff. So whether the rack is a new state record or a button buck I get excited. If I ever loose that sensation I won't be hunting anymore. I get just as excited for fishing. You must get really pissed when you go fishing and DEC tells you what fish you can and can't keep not to mention how many.

[stoneam2006]

Luckily I don't eat fish so it doesn't bother me. So nope don't get pissed. I get pissed when I pay for my licence and people think it's ok to try and tell me what I can shoot. Not ok killing a 5 yr old is no different than killing a 1.5 they both will breed no difference. Only difference is bone on the wall. Which I still don't care about. The good part is i don't think this will pass anytime soon so all this arguing is for nothing...knock on wood and come October I'll be right back to killing whatever I please with my purchased legal tags

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[Larry]

HOLY crap ONLY 11 MORE PAGES TILL 50 ANY ONE GETTING TIRED YET!!

Edited April 7, 2017 by WNYBuckHunter
inappropriate language, plese see the forum TOS

[dbHunterNY]

15 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

I think the OBR gets thrown around bc many AR guys believe AR's would increase the buck population and help the herd. When in all reality if they were concerned about the health of the herd they would be pushing OBR but they're not they want bone

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that's a misconceived notion in my opinion.  Antler restriction is a tool that is commonly only used at a state level has the intent to protect yearling bucks.  yearling bucks are the largest age class of bucks in a wild deer herd with the smallest set of antlers.  depending on the restriction some of the biggest antlered yearling bucks might still be taken.  ARs aren't conducive to trophy management and growing the biggest set of antlers possible.  it simply has a biproduct of large antlers because age is the biggest influencing factor to grow them.  One buck rule/limit is something that banks on a hunter holding out for the largest set of antlers that'd satisfy them.  a very small percentage of hunters take two bucks, regardless of how big or small they are.  OBR still spreads out opportunity to take something like an older buck with lesser antlers.  this puts less pressure on bucks with antlers that meet the restriction.  this is little diluted as hunters have a natural tendency to high grade bucks in younger age classes.  ARs from a herd health prespective doesn't really care though.  it's one more buck to create competition for breeding by the biggest and strongest.  Better age structure and presence of more mature bucks is more or less better for breeding ecology. Bucks don't have to have lots of points to be healthy in a healthy herd.  ....i'm not meaning to get into if either restriction is necessarily better than another for any particular application.  i'm just putting info out there to understand them.

[ncountry]

I like the fish analogy.. Why do they place minimum size limits on fish..Doesnt seem fair, why can't I keep that 8" bass. I could be just a beginner,poor fisherman,or just want something to eat..

Yeah I am a little bored..lol ....                    I have been housebound for close to 4 weeks.

The more progressive states actually have slot limits..Actualy a better practice fod the fish populations..this allows a healthy spawning population while still allowing a trophy or little fish be kept..

[Rebel Darling]

15 hours ago, Otto said:

According to this week's Outdoor News, it is actually now a Budget item, not a legislative item, which means if the budget passes, so does this.  It will be much easier to pass if it is a small part of a big budget.  

The Senate incorporated the language into their version of the budget, but the Assembly did not agree with the language and left it out.  It was only a "one-house" budget item.  The whole damn thing fell apart last evening, so all bets are off, but according to the Ways and Means Chairman during floor debate, the ARs will not be in the final budget...  But again, the whole damn thing blew up, which means all scattered pieces are again live.

[moog5050]

Only 31 more replies until I unveil my genius plan that will appeal to everyone!

[Doewhacker]

30 minutes ago, Rebel Darling said:

The Senate incorporated the language into their version of the budget, but the Assembly did not agree with the language and left it out.  It was only a "one-house" budget item.  The whole damn thing fell apart last evening, so all bets are off, but according to the Ways and Means Chairman during floor debate, the ARs will not be in the final budget...  But again, the whole damn thing blew up, which means all scattered pieces are again live.

Thanks for the update, is it strange to try to get something like this done this way? It struck me as such.

[Doewhacker]

1 hour ago, ncountry said:

I like the fish analogy.. Why do they place minimum size limits on fish..Doesnt seem fair, why can't I keep that 8" bass. I could be just a beginner,poor fisherman,or just want something to eat..

Yeah I am a little bored..lol ....                    I have been housebound for close to 4 weeks.

The more progressive states actually have slot limits..Actualy a better practice fod the fish populations..this allows a healthy spawning population while still allowing a trophy or little fish be kept..

I'd like to see someone throw a deer back after they shoot it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, ncountry said:

I like the fish analogy.. Why do they place minimum size limits on fish..Doesnt seem fair, why can't I keep that 8" bass. I could be just a beginner,poor fisherman,or just want something to eat..

Yeah I am a little bored..lol ....                    I have been housebound for close to 4 weeks.

The more progressive states actually have slot limits..Actualy a better practice fod the fish populations..this allows a healthy spawning population while still allowing a trophy or little fish be kept..

The fish analogy doesnt work though. The size requirements for fish are due to each species ability to spawn. Take Largemouth for instance, they will not spawn until they hit 10" in length. Thats why NY says you cant keep anything under 12". Deer can and will breed as yearlings, antler size has nothing to do with it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Thanks for the update, is it strange to try to get something like this done this way? It struck me as such.

No, lots of laws get passed that way. Its BS if you ask me, laws and such should be getting passed on their own merit, not by adding them as fine print to something completely different.

[Doewhacker]

13 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

No, lots of laws get passed that way. Its BS if you ask me, laws and such should be getting passed on their own merit, not by adding them as fine print to something completely different.

I agree, honestly that is the kind of way of doing stuff that would make me stop hunting in NYS.

[Larry]

By putting it into the budget it was a way to sneak this bad pace of legislation though without a vote and so the governor could veto it.

[nyantler]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 7:22 AM, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

You do realize that a low number of hunters shoot a buck. I am willing to bet that if you took a pole of hunters who have killed a buck every year for the last 5 years that most of them killed 2 a year. Most hunters either don't put much effort into hunting or aren't good at it.

Some don't want to be told what they can shoot some want bigger bucks some want to shoot the first deer they see and on and on. We have a grossly out of whack buck to doe ration in most of the state. Limit hunters to 1 buck and they will shoot more does and help balance the buck to doe ratio.

I couldn't care less about shooting bigger bucks as I have no problem shooting them now with our current screwed up system. Although I may be a "sheep" in your mind I in no way think a 1 buck rule is an end all be all. I however think it is a compromise. The sad fact is without an overhaul on our season dates none of the proposals will make much of a difference.




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The "compromise" does not change the fact that a certain number of whitetails must be taken each year to stay ahead of the increase in whitetail populations each year. A one buck rule compromise does nothing to serve that purpose with the amount of doe tags already given out in most DMU's across NY and certainly does nothing for the areas with low or no antlerless tags being issued. The answer is to do anything necessary to combat the loss of hunter numbers... a one buck rule would do nothing for that cause in my opinion, nor would a mandated small buck protection program. Those two ideas may be great for overall herd health with already properly controlled populations vs. given habitat.. but that is something we currently don't have in NY.

[ncountry]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

The fish analogy doesnt work though. The size requirements for fish are due to each species ability to spawn. Take Largemouth for instance, they will not spawn until they hit 10" in length. Thats why NY says you cant keep anything under 12". Deer can and will breed as yearlings, antler size has nothing to do with it.

This may be true for bass, but why is the limit for musky 40"(depending on where you fish)? I believe it is  to keep a greater # if fish capable of growing up to spawn and to allow fish to grow to a length more fun to catch..

 

Either way not a great anology..Fun though.. I have joked with friends about catching and releasing deer..Maybe a permanent paint marker gun?

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Doewhacker said:

I'd like to see someone throw a deer back after they shoot it.

Or Hook a fish through the gills and it dies...Same Idea they both die

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, ncountry said:

This may be true for bass, but why is the limit for musky 40"(depending on where you fish)? I believe it is  to keep a greater # if fish capable of growing up to spawn and to allow fish to grow to a length more fun to catch..

 

Either way not a great anology..Fun though.. I have joked with friends about catching and releasing deer..Maybe a permanent paint marker gun?

That limit most likely has to do with taking fewer fish, as there are far fewer of them than other game fish

[DirtTime]

23 hours ago, wooly said:

Who's crying over deer they killed?

Maybe when you kill that first deer and it just so happens to be a mature 10pt buck, you'll change your tune and never want to kill a 1.5yo basket 6pt.

Maybe your first buck WILL be a basket 6pt that does nothing for you, so you'll learn that it's gonna take something a little bigger to make you happy.

Point is rob, right now you know nothing about what you like or don't like about killing ANY deer, big or small..... you just wanna kill ONE!

So yes, my point was quite relevant. Maybe you're just not cut out to be a deer hunter regardless of how many points they have, or don't have. I don't know how you feel you have a better understanding of deer management than the DEC when you hardly ever see anything. Instead of blaming them for herd mismanagement, maybe it's something YOU'RE doing wrong on your end as a rookie "deer hunter".

You are right wooly! I have no right to have an opinion! 

You are the man wooly! I have no right to say anything! So I will bow out of conversations concerning antler restriction. 

[grampy]

Perhaps if you had set up on that smokin hot buck sign, I brought you to, you would have a dog in this fight.

[wooly]

57 minutes ago, ....rob said:

You are right wooly! I have no right to have an opinion! 

You are the man wooly! I have no right to say anything! So I will bow out of conversations concerning antler restriction. 

Nooooooooooooooooo problem!  

Glad we had this little breakthrough.

While you're at it, you should probably also bow out of the deep wilderness survival posts..., coyote threads..., and the entire political section as well.

You can still let us know what you had for dinner as long as you don't give an opinion on how it taste.

[WNYBuckHunter]

[growalot]

Wow....... this has taken unneeded harsh tone....