Bowhunters- PLEASE Don't Take Bad Shots- See Picture

[New York Hillbilly]

Someone tagged me, or joined me up somehow on a Facebook, NY deer hunting site, and I have been watching the flood of "stuck a good one and can't find it", "need the number for tracking dog". One tracker and his Golden retriever said he had 61 calls in just one day, the other day. And, I saw more just now on the same site. Anyone who has hunted any length of time, if being honest, will admit to have suffered the loss of a deer during their career, but this looks out of control. Maybe we can say it's just more obvious with social media, but no matter, nobody can deny or dispute the problem exists, when it is all over these sites. Deer after deer being shot, lost, and followup calls to wonderful volunteers with their 4 legged partners, to "come find my deer". I wonder if all the trackers keep record of how many times called, how many times they go out, and report this and recovery rates to the DEC?.

How bad is the shot placement? Look and see how many deer, and bear, are recovered and/or lost, even with the skilled help of a tracker, and the sharp nose of his dog. Where is the honesty, or integrity, to recognize, own, and work to fix the problem? Is the new motto, just sink an arrow in, and call the dog? If you lose one, get right back on stand the very next evening or morning?

Losing a deer used to be something we feared, sick over, and nothing we wanted to be known for, which is why we had strict rules to not shoot at moving animals,  and they had to be broadside or quartering away. It's also why we practiced, practiced, and practiced,  from the ground, and from tree stands. Nobody is perfect, and/or immune from losing a deer, certainly not me. But, it looks like something is trending in a real bad direction. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by New York Hillbilly
punctuation, spelling

[Nomad]

Well said . There have been times here where the  " I lost one " , out numbered the bow harvest thread .  Yes in  idk 42 years of deer hunting I " lost " a handful , I just would never post it online , heck I never told anyone but those helping me look .

[New York Hillbilly]

13 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

Well said . There have been times here where the  " I lost one " , out numbered the bow harvest thread .  Yes in  idk 42 years of deer hunting I " lost " a handful , I just would never post it online , heck I never told anyone but those helping me look .

Ditto! 

[wolc123]

20 minutes ago, New York Hillbilly said:

Someone tagged me, or joined me up somehow on a Facebook, NY deer hunting site, and I have been watching the flood of "stuck a good one and can't find it", "need the number for tracking dog". One tracker and his Golden retriever said he had 61 calls in just one day, the other day. And, I saw more just now on the same site. Anyone who has hunted any length of time, if being honest, will admit to have suffered the loss of a deer during their career, but this looks out of control. Maybe we can say it's just more obvious with social media, but no matter, nobody can deny or dispute the problem exists, when it is all over these sites. Deer after deer being shot, lost, and followup calls to wonderful volunteers with their 4 legged partners, to "come find my deer". I wonder if all the trackers keep record of how many times called, how many times they go out, and report this and recovery rates to the DEC?.

How bad is the shot placement? Look and see how many deer, and bear, are recovered and/or lost, even with the skilled help of a tracker, and the sharp nose of his dog. Where is the honesty, or integrity, to recognize, own, and work to fix the problem? Is the new motto, just sink an arrow in, and call the dog? If you lose one, get right back on stand the very next evening or morning?

Losing a deer used to be something we feared, sick over, and nothing we wanted to be known for, which is why we had strict rules to not shoot at moving animals,  and they had to be broadside or quartering away. It's also why we practiced, practiced, and practiced,  from the ground, and from tree stands. Nobody is perfect, and/or immune from losing a deer, certainly not me. But, it looks like something is trending in a real bad direction. 

I do not think it has gotten worse thru the years.   We just hear about it more now, due to social media. This problem has always existed and may have been worse in the old days.  Improvements in technology have helped a bit.  I remember taking a few informal surveys during archery season, among friends, coworkers, classmates in school, etc, more than 30 years ago.  For a few consecutive years, the numbers on shots came out like this: For every deer that was recovered, there was one that was missed, and two that were lost and not found. 

 I lost a few myself back then myself, which is why I started doing those surveys.  On the years when I lost a deer that I had shot at (I have yet to miss one clean), I considered that my archery deer for the season, even if I could not find it.  I stopped hunting archery for the rest of those seasons.  There was no way I could be certain those deer survived and I felt I did not deserve to kill more than one deer in a season.  I am fairly certain three of those survived, as they were struck in the shoulder blade, with no penetration.  One was actually killed by a friend with a shotgun slug a month later and my old arrow wound was just a big healed-over scar.   I am certain that the one I hit too far back did not make it however. 

A real problem is the careless hunters who just kept right on sticking them and not finding them, until they are finally able to recover one.  I remember a few that may have struck 3 or 4 in a single season.  Even now, I see a lot of bad advice given, telling folks who post about not being able to recover a deer, to get right back out there and give it another try the next day or weekend.  I think those folks should sit it out the rest of the season, take some time to think about what they have done, and wait for gun to open to "give it another try"    That may sound a little harsh but that is the best way to learn from mistakes, and to force folks to get better. 

I also see "clean misses" as worse than hits that are not recovered, because those arrows are further from the kill zone.   Anyone who does miss a deer clean should also be done for the season.   Spend the rest of it at the target range, get better, and try again the next year.  If you are missing deer clean, you are likely to wound two before you kill one clean.  The non-vital area on a deer is more than double the size of the vital area.       

    

[mowin]

37 minutes ago, Stay at home Nomad said:

Well said . There have been times here where the  " I lost one " , out numbered the bow harvest thread .  Yes in  idk 42 years of deer hunting I " lost " a handful , I just would never post it online , heck I never told anyone but those helping me look .

I rarely post when I get a deer, I'm definitely not going to post if I lost one.. 

[Five Seasons]

. Maybe we can say it's just more obvious with social media, but no matter, nobody can deny or dispute the problem exists, when it is all over these sites. . 

This. Just more awareness


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[SteveB]

1 hour ago, mowin said:

I rarely post when I get a deer, I'm definitely not going to post if I lost one.. 

I've taken at least a dozen since joining here - not one posted. Just not what I do. Doubt I took pics of half of them anyway.

[mowin]

1 hour ago, SteveB said:

I've taken at least a dozen since joining here - not one posted. Just not what I do. Doubt I took pics of half of them anyway.

Yep.  I don't do any social media like FB or Twitter.  I do belong to a few forums tho.  Not criticising those that do post sucessful pics. I like seeing those that are proud of there trophies. Big or small... 

[wfmiller]

You have no idea that was a bad shot. Maybe he hit a twig he didn't see or a leaf or maybe the string just caught his coat a little and messed up the arrow. 

[wfmiller]

11 hours ago, New York Hillbilly said:

Someone tagged me, or joined me up somehow on a Facebook, NY deer hunting site, and I have been watching the flood of "stuck a good one and can't find it", "need the number for tracking dog". One tracker and his Golden retriever said he had 61 calls in just one day, the other day. And, I saw more just now on the same site. Anyone who has hunted any length of time, if being honest, will admit to have suffered the loss of a deer during their career, but this looks out of control. Maybe we can say it's just more obvious with social media, but no matter, nobody can deny or dispute the problem exists, when it is all over these sites. Deer after deer being shot, lost, and followup calls to wonderful volunteers with their 4 legged partners, to "come find my deer". I wonder if all the trackers keep record of how many times called, how many times they go out, and report this and recovery rates to the DEC?.

How bad is the shot placement? Look and see how many deer, and bear, are recovered and/or lost, even with the skilled help of a tracker, and the sharp nose of his dog. Where is the honesty, or integrity, to recognize, own, and work to fix the problem? Is the new motto, just sink an arrow in, and call the dog? If you lose one, get right back on stand the very next evening or morning?

Losing a deer used to be something we feared, sick over, and nothing we wanted to be known for, which is why we had strict rules to not shoot at moving animals,  and they had to be broadside or quartering away. It's also why we practiced, practiced, and practiced,  from the ground, and from tree stands. Nobody is perfect, and/or immune from losing a deer, certainly not me. But, it looks like something is trending in a real bad direction. 

There is no doubt you know more now of deer never being found because of social media. Also to add to the bad shot placement I think some of the blame could simply be bad tracking skills. I know guys that couldn't track an elephant if they were sitting on it. I think a lot of people think if they don't see blood or hair right away then they think they have missed. So I think it's a combination of things that lead to a lot of deer not being found.

[reeltime]

certainly we hear about it more now than we did in the past because of social media.

It was worse in the old days?  doubtful, while yes the modern equipment is far superior to what was available 40 years ago BUT the hunter numbers and mentality has changed GREATLY in the last 40 years also.

Here's my take  ( I know your thinking oh boy lol)

when I first started bow hunting 40 years ago there were no cam bows, broadheads were old school and what few people bow hunted generally kept their shots under 25 yards 30 at most.

Roll into the mid 80's  and the "overdraw" fad hit about the same time as the outdoor hunting shows.  the overdraw craze of shooting shorter lighter arrows and then came mechanical head trying to steer those under spined arrows. If memory serves me I believe one of the first sort of mechanical heads to try and help steer those arrows was the razorback 4 and 5 where the blades would essentially stay stationary and the arrow and furrel would spin.

now all of a sudden there was a massive advancement in bow and arrow technology and the outdoor channels came around along with reeltree, buckmasters, etc. and these guys are on tv shooting 30,40,50 yards at animals and folks thought that was a great idea.

today it seems that 30-40 yards is the norm for trying to shoot deer, there are WAY more archers today than 40 years ago, there are far more tools available to them to find deer travel routes (cameras) far advances stands and camo, all equating to more deer encounters thus more shot opportunities and as with any type of shooting the more shots  taken the greater the chance of wounding a deer and that only increases with the farther distance shots. 

As far as hunting goes I call a spade a spade,  not calling individual people out but honestly a large number of archers are not as good of a shot as they make themselves out to be and shoot way beyond their effective range, not just vertical bows either, crossbows are in this as well. Some want to make the crossbow the  almighty weapon but they are not and its just as easy to wound with a crossbow as a vertical.

Whether folks want to believe it or not there are probably just as many hit and not recovered deer as recovered when 30+ yards shots are taken, and honestly a lot of the unrecovered deer the hunter never told anyone because they got caught up in the moment and tried to make a shot they knew they should not have tried.

again calling a spade a spade, the comment of a miss is worse than wound and lost so your done, that ranks right up there with one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on this board!  Misses happen for a number of reasons and is NEVER EVER NEVER worse than putting a projectile ( whether arrow or bullet) into an animal and not recovering it!!  

Do you know how many clean misses I have seen floating around facebook and social media and hunting forums  NONE, Know how many clean misses gives hunters a bad image to the public? NONE,  unless they listen to someone like you telling them your a lousy hunter and should be done for the year for missing a shot clean.

Ya know how many images get passed around every year that absolutely DOES have a negative impact on us as hunters,, TOO MANY.  Again bad shots happen, and they do and will happen, its up to the hunter to only take high percentage shots.

[yuritransfer]

My son and I have been bowhunting since season began and have passed up on a number of young and smaller bucks. We run trail cams on my properties to check on the quantity and quality of available deer. My son checked the trail cams this week and found this picture of a buck with an arrow stuck in his neck. Someone on a neighboring property took a BAD SHOT at this buck. If you cannot make a good shot into the vitals, you should not be taking a shot. There is NO EXCUSE for this.  I am hoping that this buck is able to extract this arrow and that he survives and grows to be a bigger buck.
valoroutdoors.com
 
 

Whatever shoting this buck ain’t from bottom to top it’s bad shot


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[yuritransfer]

How do you know it was a bad shot? The arrow obviously defected and that's why it got no penetration. Had the arrow penetrated that deer would have been dead in seconds with a very good blood trail.


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Hit leg fist will never a good shot


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[OtiscoPaul]

If you don't like the sight of arrows in animals you shouldn't shoot them....he will almost definitely live..til gun season...also you should see what those jerks with cars can do to a deer.

Edited November 12, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[Buckmaster7600]

Hit leg fist will never a good shot


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What?


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[Five Seasons]

I've taken at least a dozen since joining here - not one posted. Just not what I do. Doubt I took pics of half of them anyway.

Everyone should take pics. You don’t have to share them.

I️ love going through old ones. I️ have them all organized by season. They bring back good memories, especially the doe where I️ don’t have wall art to trigger it.
I️ hope some day when you start losing it that you don’t regret it.


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[growalot]

Well I was the first to say avoid posting a lost deer ..then had one..One I was sure would be found due to the shear amount of blood spray...I would have had to be all but blind not to follow the blood trail to the golden rod field. So I did the right thing and called deer search. Now even he wasn't sure of hit...The Deer was stopped,what I considered a slight quarterering to. Remember I don't like quartering shots.. So slight means just that. I aimed behind the shoulder.He dropped and spun hard at the shot and I hit opposite shoulder. The dog easily followed the blood trail throughout the golden rod..with visible blood to a live deer 9 hours later. Jumped it and the  tracker is amazed at the amount of blood . Agreed it was at least one lung and good exit wound. ..He bled  hard for nearly a mile once jumped and we still lost him after 2days of tracking and fresh blood. 2days because the tracker asked to come back.

Now I aimed where we are taught,waited as taught,got help as taught...but I couldn't do any thing about how a deer will react at the sound of a bow,vertical or x bow release. After two days the tracker and I had gone through what we had seen ..He stated they prefer seeing shots farther back, even catching some gut. That the shot hit front of one lung. Now on the heart side and slight quartering to one would think a shot would take an angle of lung toward liver.hitting both or all 3. But a drop and spin changed that.

Point is unpredictable things  can happen at a bow or a gun shot that we can't foresee no matter how much we practice or how  we analyze a shot before  we take it . Doing our best to find them needs to happen.

BTW when he called in the search to the DEC they asked him how many they've been on and how many recovered...

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by growalot

[New York Hillbilly]

4 hours ago, reeltime said:

As far as hunting goes I call a spade a spade,  not calling individual people out but honestly a large number of archers are not as good of a shot as they make themselves out to be and shoot way beyond their effective range, not just vertical bows either, crossbows are in this as well. Some want to make the crossbow the  almighty weapon but they are not and its just as easy to wound with a crossbow as a vertical.

Exactly right in my opinion. I do think the numbers of shot and lost deer is far above what it was in the "old days". I also think technology has played a significant role, and as odd as it may seem, not in a positive way. In my earliest days I hunted first with a long bow that was really nothing more than a toy by today's standards, and then a Bear recurve. With the uncles there to guide me, and also threaten to kick my ass if I did something "dumb", I hunted the first 6 or 7 seasons and had some of my closest encounters with deer, but never released an arrow, even though I drew back several times. The reason why I did not shoot, was my fear of wounding an animal I could not recover, and then suffering the wrath of my uncles, real or imaginary. Six or seven seasons with  no deer taken, but some of my earliest and exciting hunting memories.  

I took my first deer, a spike buck, with my then new "Robin Hood Little John" compound bow, that again is a toy by today's standards. The deer died within 30 or 40 yards, and was cause for great celebration as my Uncle Bill practically witnessed the whole event, as the deer passed him and walked to me, and it's end. The deer was within 15 yards, and with only one exception, (27 yards), all my deer with bow have been under 20 yards. It has been my experience,  not only does one have to be more proficient at longer distances, but as deer can respond so quickly to the threat of danger, it is only common sense that the further the distance to them, the higher the probability their response will result in poor shot placement. The new equipment offer as false sense of security for many I am afraid.  It does not make up for a lack of skill, or replace  the need for practice, and only increases the physical and metaphorical distance people are now willing to go to fill a tag. 

The "social media" has turned deer camp, into something entirely different. No longer is it limited to a nephew, his uncles and a couple of close friends, with the face to face relationships, guidance, banter, laughter, and verbal jousting,  and  system of checks and balances that comes from respect for each other and ones self, and the real or imaginary fear to be the one to disrupt that hunting family. Deer camp now seems to be the social media sites, and the dynamics are different due to the feeling of anonymity. Screw up now, tell your story, and get group hugs to feel better about yourself from those who have done the same, or like you because you're popular on a site, or catch hell from others and just turn it all off and walk away. There is no human fallout to deal with after the fact. 

Lastly,  in the old days we would hang our deer in the barn, or meat pole in the yard, and very one would stop by to check it out. Now, the Web is one big meat pole, and it makes me wonder if people's desire to be noticed and/or known as successful deer hunters, drives decisions and actions to take shots they normally would not take. 

[erussell]

seen deer survive far worse. yes bad shot but he will survive that.

[Doc]

And by the way we should also be making the following plea in light of the up and coming season: Gun hunters- PLEASE Don't Take Bad Shots.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 11/10/2017 at 9:24 PM, Steve D said:

Spoken by the man that uses the "texas heart" shot to fill a tag.

Dont forget hes also the guy that takes shots at ranges he has never practiced and hopes for Jesus to guide the arrow or bullet.

[chas0218]

Head shot gone bad? I don't know of an archery hunter that has ever taken a deer with a head shot and a bow. By the look of things it is a deflected shot. I had one of those this year at 20 yards broadside slight quartering towards. I couldn't figure out what happened I was aiming just behind the shoulder about half way up. I ended up whacking a twig about the same size as a BBQ skewer and the arrow went in about 5 inches of backstrap. He bled good but dried up in 50 yards, I have trail cam pictures of him with the hit. Sucks he is a nice 115" 8 point. 

[wolc123]

35 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Dont forget hes also the guy that takes shots at ranges he has never practiced and hopes for Jesus to guide the arrow or bullet.

He is also the guy who has recovered every deer he has shot at over the last 12 years, and all in less than an hour.  Must be "just a coincidence" right ? 

How has your record been over that time ?   

[WNYBuckHunter]

22 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

He is also the guy who has recovered every deer he has shot at over the last 12 years, and all in less than an hour.  Must be "just a coincidence" right ? 

How has your record been over that time ?   

2 bad shots that hit them in the backstraps (bow), one nick in the brisket (shotgun) and 1 that left no blood trail, but was found weeks later after the farmer cut down the corn field (bow). So what? Im human, and make mistakes, but Ill admit to them. Every one of those shots was at a distance that I practiced. All 3 of the bow shots were in the very early days of my archery hunting, one was a deflection. I would never take a "Texas heart shot" or attempt a shot at a deer that was at a range I had not practiced. I have probably passed on more deer than I have taken, because I didnt have a good angle even though they were in range, or were just outside of where I had practiced with the weapon I had in my hands. Quite a few were big bucks that I was trying to take that year.

You are pretty darn full of yourself for being a "Christian". Doesnt the bible teach you to be humble?

IMO anyone that takes questionable shots over and over is a slob hunter, regardless of the outcome.

[wolc123]

12 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

2 bad shots that hit them in the backstraps (bow), one nick in the brisket (shotgun) and 1 that left no blood trail, but was found weeks later after the farmer cut down the corn field (bow). So what? Im human, and make mistakes, but Ill admit to them. Every one of those shots was at a distance that I practiced. All 3 of the bow shots were in the very early days of my archery hunting, one was a deflection. I would never take a "Texas heart shot" or attempt a shot at a deer that was at a range I had not practiced. I have probably passed on more deer than I have taken, because I didnt have a good angle even though they were in range, or were just outside of where I had practiced with the weapon I had in my hands. Quite a few were big bucks that I was trying to take that year.

You are pretty darn full of yourself for being a "Christian". Doesnt the bible teach you to be humble?

IMO anyone that takes questionable shots over and over is a slob hunter, regardless of the outcome.

Thank you for your honesty on the unrecovered deer.   Many folks do not have the guts to admit stuff like that on the internet.   The most important thing the Bible teaches is to trust in Jesus, and I give Him all of the credit for the two dozen or so deer that He has blessed me with over the last 12 years, as well as those over my prior years where I struggled a bit more.   

Do you only shoot when you are 100 % sure you can make it ?  My number is 90 %.   I have been very blessed over the last 12 years that He has given me that extra 10% that I surely would have lost on my own.   

In the latest case, He allowed me to put more than 90 pounds of boneless venison in our freezer Friday night. I learned yesterday morning, just how much of His help was required for that.   I had put a Crossbow bolt thru the "twofur" (deer that produces 2X the average amount of meat), on the previous week Friday, in the late afternoon.   I could not find my bolt that evening.  I saw it yesterday morning, while back up in the same stand.  I had taken the shot in the last 10 minutes of daylight, thru what looked like a good opening at the time.   As I stared at the fletching sticking out of the ground, 32 yards away in the bright light yesterday, I marveled at all the small (1/4" diameter or less) branches that the bolt had to snake thru to reach it's target.  I counted more than 15.  That was my first shot at a deer with my Crossbow in the woods (the prior two were 59, and 15 yards across open fields).   I had seen the two 1" branches, a foot away, on each side when I took the shot, but not all the little ones in between.   

I have never been 100 % sure that I could make any shot on a deer.  I had a handful that were 99%, and I actually did not make one of those.  That was 14 years ago. My firing pin froze up and my Marlin 512, and it did not go off on a doe standing 15 yards away when I pulled the trigger.   She would have been the only doe I ever killed at my folks place, but it was not to be.  Maybe she was the grandmother of the twofur that I killed there this year.   Only one of my shots was perfect, and that would be my infamous "Texas Heart Shot" which has been referred  to on this thread was good for 5 or 6 pages on this forum. The fact that it keeps getting brought up is like the gift that keeps on giving.  I judged my chances of a recovered kill to be about 98 % for that shot, at a standing buck at 50 yards.  I can only take a bit of the credit there, for putting the bullet in the right spot.  My 30/06 holds a 3/4" group from 100 yards so centering the bullet in a 3/4" hole from a rest at half that range was no big deal.   All of the credit for lining the buck's body up with the gun barrel, so that the heart was struck, the neck was broke, very little meat was damaged, and the guts came out as clean as a whistle, belongs with He who calls ALL the shots.   Several others on here have admitted to taking that shot, but I have not heard of another that was so perfectly executed.  They all had to deal with significant messes at gutting time, from what I hear.