Don't Shoot The Messenger

[ADK Native]

Is deer hunting based on wildlife biology or antler points?

Do we tell non-hunters we hunt for wildlife conservation or big antlers?

[Bigfoot 327]

This is a cruel joke!  My only possible incentive for letting little bucks walk is my desire to shoot a larger deer.

I live on the western edge of the Tompkins County Deer Management Focus area where hunters will be allowed to take 2 antlerless deer per day from January 12th 2019 through January 31st. That's a limit of 40 baldies. Male or female.

Given that many bucks drop their racks before or during this time period it is highly likely that the young buck I pass up will be harvested as a "doe".  Again, there is no protection for trophy buck that makes it through the regular season and loses his rack before February.

DEC doesn't care about the age structure in my area. They just want fewer deer. 

[8s or Better HC]

10 minutes ago, Wilderness said:

Is deer hunting based on wildlife biology or antler points?

Do we tell non-hunters we hunt for wildlife conservation or big antlers?

There’s professionals that get paid for conservation, I’ll let them do what they do.

But since you asked here’s my answer:

i hunt for my personal reasons, and because I’m allowed to do so.  I love everything about deer, especially the way they look so if I’m going to hunt, I want to remember every second of that day by looking at the mount and telling the story.

[SteveB]

21 hours ago, pitweiler said:

 Nothing wrong with seeking out a trophy. 

Unless you want to tell others their hunting is limited to what you call a trophy.

 

[Five Seasons]

On 11/5/2018 at 5:56 PM, sits in trees said:

I'm still happy taking a doe

i think you missed the point

[Five Seasons]

21 hours ago, Wilderness said:

The rationale for deer hunting is to reduce the population to enable the thinned herd a better chance to survive winter and all the pregnant does not to miscarriage, not for antlers.

The three inch rule allows hunters to clearly identify a buck.  This enables hunters to know they are killing bucks with the intent to maintain a one buck to three doe ratio.

Non-hunters would be less supportive if hunters hunted for a trophy as opposed to killing deer for the meat with intent to reducing the herd to keep it healthy.  

Do we hunt for conservation values or antler trophies?

do we hunt? yes.

do you? 

all i've ever seen you post is politics. 

[DirtTime]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

do we hunt? yes.

do you? 

all i've ever seen you post is politics. 

Don't waste your time with this one. Nothing more then a troll. 

[8s or Better HC]

39 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Don't waste your time with this one. Nothing more then a troll. 

He (wilderness) hasn’t responded to me... I guess he realized wrong Forrest and definitely wrong tree he was barking at.

[8s or Better HC]

4 hours ago, Belo said:

do we hunt? yes.

do you? 

all i've ever seen you post is politics. 

If he responds to you, tell him thanks from me. You know, for giving me a lesson on why there is a three inch rule for an antler. And that is how I know I’m looking at a buck.  Fascinating!

[G-Man]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:08 AM, ApexerER said:

Our lease rules are 6 or better.  I had and still have sometimes a hard time with this rule but I sort of abide by it.  Most of the guys I hunt with have killed bucket loads of small bucks. I haven't killed a lot of bucks. I have a spike/maybe 3, a four, a Five an eight and nine point. So I have only killed 5 bucks in my life so to me they are all trophys. I won't kill a doe that has fawns in tow (my choice) and I have seen 7 different bucks this season but nothing bigger than a 4pt. Several in bow range.  So when I climb up in a stand I have already ruled out killing 95 percent of the deer ill see. The 8 and the 9 I killed are the only two bucks I have ever seen on our lease that met our requirement. Its not like I am seeing 8 points running all over. We always kill a few nice deer every year and the guys always seem to see nice bucks that they can't get a shot at. Some days I am all for it and some days I would love to sling an arrow at what is under my treestand. I see both sides. 

you should rethink not shooting that doe with fawns in tow especially if they are twin buttons.. females are king of the woods and they are the ones to kick their young bucks out of the area so there is no inbreeding.. when you kill a doe with young buttons they only know their mother home range and because she is not there to kick them out they stay.now you see more 1.5 year olds.

at this point a mature buck will puch them to fringes of their range but they age another year if you pass on them and soon your seeing many more 2.5 year olds.. again they stay kn their home range from being a fawn as momma not there to drive them out.. this fawn range often becomes their core area as they age. 

we have done this for years and many times all we see for a week are the young bucks following their old mommas patterns..  fortunatly we have a piebald gene and many deer are easy to identify by marks or stocking feet.. or double throat patch.  

[G-Man]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:24 AM, LET EM GROW said:

 

The very first thing NYS DEC can do about letting bucks age is get rid of the damn 2nd buck tag. Atleast for a few years. Let them populate back up a bit, by then a majority  will have a couple years under their belts. Still gives hunters a chance to take one buck of choice. It wont change some areas totally. But I bet 50% of the hunters will fill both buck tags, or make it a goal each year to fill those 2 tags more than any thing else. 

 

 

really over 400k licenes sold and buck take is usually around 150k so how the hell do 50% of hunters fill both tags when obviously less than half of available buck tags are even filled?? 

its simple want older buck on your property make a section thick and nasty and stay the heck out of it.. dont hunt it push it let them feel/be safe there . food plots and other things are not anywhere near as important as this.  

ask your self where are the bigges bucks taken 

.an isolated stand of 3 trees in middle of a field or next to the barn or you see them.laying in the neighbors lawn that doesnt allow hunting..  unless a novice hunter stumbles upon that huge buck in the middle of the field and kills it no one will go there because we know nothing would be there ... a sancutary is the key to older deer..or just close your property to hunting for a few years and see all the deer that will hide in it to escape hunting pressure ...

[The_Real_TCIII]

I thought I read somewhere that fewer than 10% of NY hunters fill both buck tags. Maybe if we had to tag a button as a buck we'd see a big jump in buck numbers, not that I believe buck numbers are low

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:16 PM, pitweiler said:

I think any QDMA needs to be done at the WMU level. I think adding a statewide DMP to each license purchase and then adjusting the lottery would go a long way to getting people to pass up small bucks if they knew they had a statewide DMP in their pocket. 

How can you do any real deer management if you are giving people a doe tag that they can use anywhere in the state? There are lots of areas where the population is low that can’t take the doe harvests. Currently, the state already hands out doe tags that you can use anywhere, it’s the either sex tag you get for bow and muzzleloader season. They really should do away with that. 

Also, QDM needs to be done on a much smaller scale as far as area is concerned. It would not be feasible on a WMU sized area. Study up on what real QDM consists of and you’ll see what I mean  

[ApexerER]

8 hours ago, G-Man said:

you should rethink not shooting that doe with fawns in tow especially if they are twin buttons.. females are king of the woods and they are the ones to kick their young bucks out of the area so there is no inbreeding.. when you kill a doe with young buttons they only know their mother home range and because she is not there to kick them out they stay.now you see more 1.5 year olds.

at this point a mature buck will puch them to fringes of their range but they age another year if you pass on them and soon your seeing many more 2.5 year olds.. again they stay kn their home range from being a fawn as momma not there to drive them out.. this fawn range often becomes their core area as they age. 

we have done this for years and many times all we see for a week are the young bucks following their old mommas patterns..  fortunatly we have a piebald gene and many deer are easy to identify by marks or stocking feet.. or double throat patch.  

I see tons of 1.5 year old deer. I have seen 8 different 1.5 year old bucks so far this season.  I have yet to see a buck that is older than 1.5  This seems to be the pattern for me most years on our lease. Lots of little bucks...no shooters. I know there are shooters there from a few trail camera pictures and the fact that all the 1.5 year old bucks that we passed on the lease last year have to be somewhere.

[Buckmaster7600]

Shoot what makes you happy! Don’t worry about what the neighbors doing. If you want the Gov. to step in to make it easier for you to shoot your trophy you’ve lost what it’s about.




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[LET EM GROW]

On 11/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, G-Man said:

really over 400k licenes sold and buck take is usually around 150k so how the hell do 50% of hunters fill both tags when obviously less than half of available buck tags are even filled?? 

its simple want older buck on your property make a section thick and nasty and stay the heck out of it.. dont hunt it push it let them feel/be safe there . food plots and other things are not anywhere near as important as this.  

ask your self where are the bigges bucks taken 

.an isolated stand of 3 trees in middle of a field or next to the barn or you see them.laying in the neighbors lawn that doesnt allow hunting..  unless a novice hunter stumbles upon that huge buck in the middle of the field and kills it no one will go there because we know nothing would be there ... a sancutary is the key to older deer..or just close your property to hunting for a few years and see all the deer that will hide in it to escape hunting pressure ...

I know how to hold and grow bigger deer. Thats pretty simple.

What i was saying is, many people if given the chance will fill both buck tags, then bitch the following year or years later that they dont see the bucks they'd like to see. I Should have proof read that one before posting. my bad...  You also have to remember, probably 1/3 or more of hunters dont report their harvests either. And those are usually the ones who will break any law in front of them 

As mentioned earlier .. Shoot what makes you happy. And dont let others tell you how to hunt.  

[hugedogleg]

Real simple rule on my place. Shoot whatever you want, but if it's a buck the next one has to be bigger. After a year or two everyone has killed a decent buck and the hunting starts. If you need meat you shoot a doe or an old spike. 2 years or older. One thing is for sure a deer you shoot will not get bigger.

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[TonySkyline]

The state has been crap for years. What makes anyone think that keeping it the same will yield bigger bucks? Lol. Only reason we are seeing somewhat decent bucks now is way less hunters and better agricultural products like soybeans. If anyone would like to go in on a lease for Ohio next year let me know! Ill fill my freezer here at home with does but once every 3 years seeing a mature buck aint cutting it anymore.

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[Hunter007]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:46 AM, WNYBuckHunter said:

How can you do any real deer management if you are giving people a doe tag that they can use anywhere in the state? There are lots of areas where the population is low that can’t take the doe harvests. Currently, the state already hands out doe tags that you can use anywhere, it’s the either sex tag you get for bow and muzzleloader season. They really should do away with that. 

Also, QDM needs to be done on a much smaller scale as far as area is concerned. It would not be feasible on a WMU sized area. Study up on what real QDM consists of and you’ll see what I mean  

Good question 

I'm guessing because they want to promote bow hunting and muzzleloader over rifle hunting . Or there data shows bow and muzzleloader hunters are not   successful enough to hurt the population, Or maybe they just want to keep more people hunting as much as possible  And figure that is a  way to do it with out hurting the deer population as much as they would if they gave out more gun tags .

[WNYBuckHunter]

4 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Good question 

I'm guessing because they want to promote bow hunting and muzzleloader over rifle hunting . Or there data shows bow and muzzleloader hunters are not   successful enough to hurt the population, Or maybe they just want to keep more people hunting as much as possible  And figure that is a  way to do it with out hurting the deer population as much as they would if they gave out more gun tags .

Probably, but its bad management.

[chas0218]

I know this may seem like an impossible task, but raise your limit to 8 or better , or 4 points to one side. i had a similar issue on a 48 acre land I hunted that the neighbors would “high five” after shooting a 4 pointer I just let pass.. it’s frustrating , I know!

after talking to the other neighbors it seemed that Some were on the same page with me. Now I understand if it’s someomes first deer or a young hunter, but if you even get 1 hunter to be on board it could yield results.

it took two LONG years, but we started getting big 8’s, 10’s and an 11 by the third year.  The big guys are out there, they need a chance to grow, they don’t get big by being dumb, they know where to walk and when it’s safe.

good luck

 

Yup, i agree 100% we have now been doing our own AR on 200 acres and the one neighbor doing it on his 100 acres and have true giants walking around. It's been 8 years now and we have had 3 bucks over 130" some close to 160" every year. It is possible even if you only have 20 acres and pass the small ones it's worth it. I have 40 acres and pass 2.5 year olds granted some of the young ones get shot by the one neighbor brown it's down but they can only take 1 during gun. Below is a 2.5 and 3.5 i have running around. This is on my little piece of 40 acres. If you do some land management the deer will stick around. That is the boat in in right now, where this photo was taken i had some clover that just got annihilated. i added a daytime picture of the 2.5.

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[8s or Better HC]

That’s the way to do it if your looking for the “big boy”.  Nice buck, good luck, at the end of the day, don’t need the state to tell you what to do, take matters in your own hands, the deer that have potential let them pass and procreate... the good genes on my hill are there because we let them stay there not killing them off.

love sharing trail pics here’s my case and point as well:

 

[8s or Better HC]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

Yup, i agree 100% we have now been doing our own AR on 200 acres and the one neighbor doing it on his 100 acres and have true giants walking around. It's been 8 years now and we have had 3 bucks over 130" some close to 160" every year. It is possible even if you only have 20 acres and pass the small ones it's worth it. I have 40 acres and pass 2.5 year olds granted some of the young ones get shot by the one neighbor brown it's down but they can only take 1 during gun. Below is a 2.5 and 3.5 i have running around. This is on my little piece of 40 acres. If you do some land management the deer will stick around. That is the boat in in right now, where this photo was taken i had some clover that just got annihilated. i added a daytime picture of the 2.5.

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1 minute ago, 8s or Better HC said:

That’s the way to do it if your looking for the “big boy”.  Nice buck, good luck, at the end of the day, don’t need the state to tell you what to do, take matters in your own hands, the deer that have potential let them pass and procreate... the good genes on my hill are there because we let them stay there not killing them off.

love sharing trail pics here’s my case and point as well:

 

 

[Doewhacker]

12 hours ago, 8s or Better HC said:

That’s the way to do it if your looking for the “big boy”.  Nice buck, good luck, at the end of the day, don’t need the state to tell you what to do, take matters in your own hands, the deer that have potential let them pass and procreate... the good genes on my hill are there because we let them stay there not killing them off.

love sharing trail pics here’s my case and point as well:

 

Nice corn in the second pic. 

[8s or Better HC]

Way to accuse, but your a bit off on that my friend, apology accepted.