Can one of you more left leaning posters explain your thinking to me

[Steve D]

33 minutes ago, virgil said:

As to what I was looking for: I am truly curious to have an intelligent conversation with a person that is pro illegal immigration. If you watch the news there seems to be a lot of them and I just don't understand that thought process. 

 

Is anyone actually 'pro-illegal immigration'?  I've only heard people accuse others of this, but have never actually heard anyone say that illegal immigration is good.  Maybe it's happened and I missed it.

WASHINGTON — Democratic House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi vowed to pass legislation that would put so-called Dreamers — young undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children — on a pathway to citizenship when her party retakes control of Congress' lower chamber in January.

"America draws strength from our long, proud heritage as a nation of immigrants. In the Majority, Democrats will work to reverse the Republicans' destructive anti-immigrant agenda," Pelosi said in a statement Saturday, responding to a letter sent Thursday by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. "Our House Democratic Majority will once again pass the Dream Act to end the uncertainty and fear inflicted on patriotic young men and women across the country."

[steve863]

36 minutes ago, virgil said:

As to what I was looking for: I am truly curious to have an intelligent conversation with a person that is pro illegal immigration. If you watch the news there seems to be a lot of them and I just don't understand that thought process. 

 

Is anyone actually 'pro-illegal immigration'?  I've only heard people accuse others of this, but have never actually heard anyone say that illegal immigration is good.  Maybe it's happened and I missed it.

Of course most won't admit it, but when you have people like Cuomo and DiBlasio coming up with laws to protect and/or give them health insurance, etc., that is all I really need to know on what their position is on the matter.  They are actually harbouring them and violating federal law.  If someone appointed me president I would put ANYONE who harbours illegals in jail for violating federal law.  There would be NO exceptions for anyone.  Individuals, businesses, Mayors, Governors, Senators, ANYONE would be subject to imprisonment for this.

[Daveboone]

I am very reluctant to respond ...as someone else mentioned, this is an outdoors column, I go here to relax, not debate. Probably no one wants to get into a discussion that isn't going to go anywhere, where opinions are stated up front. 

I am very middle of the road, but our current leaderships absurd rhetoric alienates me.

My family is very WASP (white anglo saxon protestant, for those of you who are too young to know the term). We are historically illegal immigrants. A fair part of my ancestry came to NY from Canada, crossing the border to escape their indentured servitude they sold themselves into to come to the US from Europe. They historically squatted on land for a while, until moved, no one documented as holding down a steady job until my Grandmother Billie started working in the Cortland Corssete  Factory in the 1920s.( continuing into the 1970s). We have an incredible load of born Americans who are at least as worthless and a drag on the system as the immigrants we worry about. 

I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with countless immigrants from many countries in the role of my job. The common underlying factors are they had to leave because their families were in constant danger, and leaving a home is always a last ditch last choice. I have met folks who were surgeons in their home country who had to take jobs sweeping floors here....and were glad for the opportunity. South American migrant workers who were among the most sober, conscientious  workers I ever met, worked for under minimum wage sun up to sundown so they could send their money back to their families. When I was (much ) younger, I always enjoyed working with them, they were smart, industrious and fun. Now they work the fields alone, because our youth are raised so spoiled they never even consider working in the fields. Three upstate farms I know have closed due to the lack of dependable workers. 

I agree that our benefits shouldn't be allowed for unregistered/illegal individuals, but will we be so inhuman to deny children with no choice in politics to suffer? America is recognized as the premier nation in the world. If we truly believe we are, then we have responsibilities, other than acting like a bully which may questionably work in the business world, but has no place in world leadership...the histories of our worlds tyrants and despots proves the point, and history does repeat itself. 

We are one of very few nations in the world who have undefended borders. Are we declaring Mexico an enemy? The state of "emergency", etc. is a farce....how can it now be when it has never been before? Things haven't changed that much over the years. Shall we build a border with Canada once we are done with Mexico? Once that border closes, of course the presumed threat will move north. If hundreds of miles of desert along ours and Mexicos border isn't a deterrent,  oh, my, what sort of a deterrent will a measly 10 or twenty foot tall wall be?

[virgil]

SteveD, the Pelosi quote that you posted is not exactly a declaration that she's 'pro-illegal immigration'.  I'm no fan of hers, by the way.  That statement refers specifically to 'the Dreamers', kids who are in this country through no illegal act of their own.

[steve863]

9 minutes ago, Daveboone said:

I am very reluctant to respond ...as someone else mentioned, this is an outdoors column, I go here to relax, not debate. Probably no one wants to get into a discussion that isn't going to go anywhere, where opinions are stated up front. 

I am very middle of the road, but our current leaderships absurd rhetoric alienates me.

My family is very WASP (white anglo saxon protestant, for those of you who are too young to know the term). We are historically illegal immigrants. A fair part of my ancestry came to NY from Canada, crossing the border to escape their indentured servitude they sold themselves into to come to the US from Europe. They historically squatted on land for a while, until moved, no one documented as holding down a steady job until my Grandmother Billie started working in the Cortland Corssete  Factory in the 1920s.( continuing into the 1970s). We have an incredible load of born Americans who are at least as worthless and a drag on the system as the immigrants we worry about. 

I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with countless immigrants from many countries in the role of my job. The common underlying factors are they had to leave because their families were in constant danger, and leaving a home is always a last ditch last choice. I have met folks who were surgeons in their home country who had to take jobs sweeping floors here....and were glad for the opportunity. South American migrant workers who were among the most sober, conscientious  workers I ever met, worked for under minimum wage sun up to sundown so they could send their money back to their families. When I was (much ) younger, I always enjoyed working with them, they were smart, industrious and fun. Now they work the fields alone, because our youth are raised so spoiled they never even consider working in the fields. Three upstate farms I know have closed due to the lack of dependable workers. 

I agree that our benefits shouldn't be allowed for unregistered/illegal individuals, but will we be so inhuman to deny children with no choice in politics to suffer? America is recognized as the premier nation in the world. If we truly believe we are, then we have responsibilities, other than acting like a bully which may questionably work in the business world, but has no place in world leadership...the histories of our worlds tyrants and despots proves the point, and history does repeat itself. 

We are one of very few nations in the world who have undefended borders. Are we declaring Mexico an enemy? The state of "emergency", etc. is a farce....how can it now be when it has never been before? Things haven't changed that much over the years. Shall we build a border with Canada once we are done with Mexico? Once that border closes, of course the presumed threat will move north. If hundreds of miles of desert along ours and Mexicos border isn't a deterrent,  oh, my, what sort of a deterrent will a measly 10 or twenty foot tall wall be?

I agree with a number of points you make, especially on the work ethic of many of these illegal immigrants and that most of them are NOT the criminals Trump makes them out to be.  However, there needs to be a process for entry into this country.  We are all immigrants in one way or another,  but most of our ancestors came to this country via legal channels.  You can't just swing the borders open for everyone and anyone to come in whenever they want.  I don't know if the wall is the answer, but the system is seriously broken.  Trump seems to be obsessed by the southern border, but plenty of people from Asia and middle-east countries are flooding into this country also.  Why isn't he concerned about them?  I know the Chinese population in the area I live in must have increased 5 fold in the last 25 years.  I know for a fact plenty of them are illegal.  And they sure as heck aren't swimming across the Pacific or Atlantic oceans or are coming in thru the southern border to get here.   Many things are messed up in our system, and it definitely needs some fixing.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, virgil said:

Is anyone actually 'pro-illegal immigration'?  I've only heard people accuse others of this, but have never actually heard anyone say that illegal immigration is good.  Maybe it's happened and I missed it.

I guess that since there is a thing called sanctuary states and cities, the answer is yes. There are people that are pro illegal immigration. 

[virgil]

34 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I guess that since there is a thing called sanctuary states and cities, the answer is yes. There are people that are pro illegal immigration. 

Fair point.  I don't think it's right to blatantly disregard federal law.  My guess is that people who defend 'sanctuary cities' are seeing it from the 'humanitarian' angle, while those opposed to it feel that these cities/states/policies are incentivizing illegal immigration.  As others have said, it's a very complex problem- and anyone who claims that there is an easy solution is deluded.

Edited January 22, 2019 by virgil

[Culvercreek hunt club]

42 minutes ago, steve863 said:

I agree with a number of points you make, especially on the work ethic of many of these illegal immigrants and that most of them are NOT the criminals Trump makes them out to be.  However, there needs to be a process for entry into this country.  We are all immigrants in one way or another,  but most of our ancestors came to this country via legal channels.  You can't just swing the borders open for everyone and anyone to come in whenever they want.  I don't know if the wall is the answer, but the system is seriously broken.  Trump seems to be obsessed by the southern border, but plenty of people from Asia and middle-east countries are flooding into this country also.  Why isn't he concerned about them?  I know the Chinese population in the area I live in must have increased 5 fold in the last 25 years.  I know for a fact plenty of them are illegal.  And they sure as heck aren't swimming across the Pacific or Atlantic oceans or are coming in thru the southern border to get here.   Many things are messed up in our system, and it definitely needs some fixing.

I watched an video of the boarder agents telling about how many came in the previous week in their one small area. That was during Trump's visit to the border. You may have seen it. Where Trump tells the agent to "tell them" referencing the media on hand.  I was shocked at the number that came across the southern border that weren't even from Central or South American countries.  

[ApexerER]

58 minutes ago, Daveboone said:

I am very reluctant to respond ...as someone else mentioned, this is an outdoors column, I go here to relax, not debate. Probably no one wants to get into a discussion that isn't going to go anywhere, where opinions are stated up front. 

I am very middle of the road, but our current leaderships absurd rhetoric alienates me.

My family is very WASP (white anglo saxon protestant, for those of you who are too young to know the term). We are historically illegal immigrants. A fair part of my ancestry came to NY from Canada, crossing the border to escape their indentured servitude they sold themselves into to come to the US from Europe. They historically squatted on land for a while, until moved, no one documented as holding down a steady job until my Grandmother Billie started working in the Cortland Corssete  Factory in the 1920s.( continuing into the 1970s). We have an incredible load of born Americans who are at least as worthless and a drag on the system as the immigrants we worry about. 

I have had the pleasure of meeting and working with countless immigrants from many countries in the role of my job. The common underlying factors are they had to leave because their families were in constant danger, and leaving a home is always a last ditch last choice. I have met folks who were surgeons in their home country who had to take jobs sweeping floors here....and were glad for the opportunity. South American migrant workers who were among the most sober, conscientious  workers I ever met, worked for under minimum wage sun up to sundown so they could send their money back to their families. When I was (much ) younger, I always enjoyed working with them, they were smart, industrious and fun. Now they work the fields alone, because our youth are raised so spoiled they never even consider working in the fields. Three upstate farms I know have closed due to the lack of dependable workers. 

I agree that our benefits shouldn't be allowed for unregistered/illegal individuals, but will we be so inhuman to deny children with no choice in politics to suffer? America is recognized as the premier nation in the world. If we truly believe we are, then we have responsibilities, other than acting like a bully which may questionably work in the business world, but has no place in world leadership...the histories of our worlds tyrants and despots proves the point, and history does repeat itself. 

We are one of very few nations in the world who have undefended borders. Are we declaring Mexico an enemy? The state of "emergency", etc. is a farce....how can it now be when it has never been before? Things haven't changed that much over the years. Shall we build a border with Canada once we are done with Mexico? Once that border closes, of course the presumed threat will move north. If hundreds of miles of desert along ours and Mexicos border isn't a deterrent,  oh, my, what sort of a deterrent will a measly 10 or twenty foot tall wall be?

I am glad you posted. Thank you. While I wouldn't say from that post you are pro illegal immigration it is the kind of post as was looking for where there are a lot of things I don't agree with but I can understand your argument 100%. So I would like to respond.

I have said in several previous posts that I wish Trump would stop with the name calling and belittling tweets etc. I don't think it is very presidential and understand that I am sure it alienates certain people. That being said I do agree with 90% of what he is trying to accomplish. 

In response to your first paragraph. I understand that we were all immigrants at one point. Documented or undocumented. I honestly don't know enough about my family history to know when my ancestors came here or how. I also agree that we have an incredible load of born Americans who are at least as worthless and a drag on the system. I think this is the "core" of the problem, the system.

I understand that there are many illegals here that are hard workers just working for a better life. But I am tired of hearing that there aren't Americans that will do this work. First of all, there isn't a job I wouldn't do ( I guess if it was life risking I wouldn't) if it paid enough. These workers drag down the wage scale because they are willing to work for less than an American worker. But the problem is also two fold and goes back to the system being broken. We have created a system where Americans don't have to work. With all the freebies and American citizen is entitled to, with housing, food, medical care there isn't an incentive to work. Government incentives for non workers shouldn't surpass anyone that is working. If you remove the incentive not to work, we would have a much larger work force. These jobs would get filled by Americans because they would have to work. This new work force would be contributing to the economy. Now maybe we would all have to pay a slight increase in products because of increased labor costs but I would be ok with that. 

As far as the children are concerned. This is a tough one for me. I feel bad for a lot of children in this world. Heck in my daughters own school.  First I certainly don't think anything we are doing is inhuman to these children. They are being fed, housed and clothed. After that I don't know what the answer is. I am certainly not heartless. I don't think the answer is taking these children from their families and I certainly don't think the answer is giving any of these families a free ride. While I agree these children had nothing to do with politics, they also had nothing to do with the decision to break into our country. I have a very tough time rewarding that. I admit I don't have a correct answer with the children.

Is Mexico the enemy? I don't think that the country of Mexico is the enemy of the United States but I think you can make a case that the drug cartels, gang members to some extent the Mexican government is. The government is corrupt, does nothing to stop the cartels, flow of drugs and the flow of people from other countries to our border. If they did, like with Canada, there would be no need for a wall. If we start getting an influx of illegals flowing over the border from Canada, drug cartels spilling over into northern states etc. I would be clammering for a wall there as well. 

I agree with you that a measly 10 or 20 foot wall won't do much, but a 20+ foot wall, I think they are asking for 30 with state of the are detection equipment would go a long way towards stopping people from just walking across. 

Again, thank you for your response and for keeping it very civil. When I was writing all this in regards to your response, it was evident that not all the answers are black and white. 

[Daveboone]

Kinda a pain in the neck to refer back to someone elses note without having to duplicate the whole dang thing, which is annoying as all hell.....anyway...

Apexer and Steve863, I am absolute agreement as to the importance of controlling / documenting the immigration....it is just how...., anyway...a couple of interesting things I have picked up on in my travels over the past few years....

The number one group of illegal immigrants in Massachussetts is....Irish. (per an article I read in Boston when I was visiting three years ago). But then, who the heck wants to kick out the Irish redhead gals, papers or no papers? (okay, okay, double standard)

I will not remember the exact figures by far, but published in a Newfoundland Newspaper the same year were listed the total number of allowed immigrants, including refugees to the province for the same year. Broken down were the required trades/ skills that were being allowed. It was going to be less than three hundred individuals (which I think allowed for their immediate dependent families too, but might be wrong). Granted Newfoundlands total population is only that of some cities, but it still demonstrated the restricted measures they have there. And I totally respect it. 

Now, as pointed out, so far...surprisingly, as an example to all how we can get along....lets continue to keep this a cordial conversation!... tough to do...three things gentlemen never discuss, their wives, religion and politics!!

[ApexerER]

1 hour ago, Daveboone said:

...three things gentlemen never discuss, their wives, religion and politics!!

I must not be a gentleman...lol. I will happily discuss all three!

Thank you again for responding. I am curious,  what you would like to see as solutions?

I will admit, I am a scream from the rooftops, round them all up and get them out of here guy but even I know this isn't feasible. So my solutions would be as follows:

First and formost, we stop the inflow. To me this happens with a border wall that has to include detection technology. Not only that but we need to keep track of people that have come into the country legally but have overstayed their legal welcome.

Second, we have to remove any incentive for coming here. We should NOT be giving any of these people, healthcare, welfare and I am including employment in this. We need strict penalties and enforcement for anyone knowingly employing non citizens. I am also including school for the children of illegals. I understand that young children didn't have a choice but why should tax paying Americans have to pay for the schooling of non Americans? This is putting a huge burden on school systems that are already under funded. If we remove any incentive for coming here, this may take some time and have to be strictly enforced but over time it would solve the issue. 

Third, if we remove the incentive to come here. We can't have 22 million people just roaming the streets. We have to have to have some sort of system that allows people to self deport. So we have a setup that pays for people to be sent back home. This can easily be paid for by the money we are saving by not doling out money to illegals. It has been posted many times that NY pays almost 10 billion per year on illegal immigrants. That is a lot of plane/bus/train/boat tickets. 

Forth, I have no issue with people coming to this country the correct way. Maybe we need to streamline this process. I honestly can't say because I don't know what the process is, but everyone should be vetted. 

I know people say that it is unfair to uproot a family that has been here for x number of years and deport them. As far as I am concerned, they broke the law coming into our country. They knew coming here and have known since being here that deportation was/is a possibility. They made the choice to come here anyway knowing what the ramifications could be if caught. Why would the ramifications be different for someone that has been here for a long time compared to a short time? Cause they got away with it longer? 

Edited January 22, 2019 by ApexerER

[Culvercreek hunt club]

56 minutes ago, Daveboone said:

The number one group of illegal immigrants in Massachussetts is....Irish. (per an article I read in Boston when I was visiting three years ago). But then, who the heck wants to kick out the Irish redhead gals, papers or no papers? (okay, okay, double standard)

I

I am a numbers kind of guy. I see a CNN article citing 50,000 illegal Irish in the entire country. Another independent authority believes the number to be 10,000-15,000. This is based on "research data provided by the American Community Survey, a major study conducted by the US census bureau each year".  The Boston Globe cites studies that Greater  Boston alone has 170,000-180,000 illegal immigrants (12th ranked city for highest numbers). 

Migration Policy Institute shows these as the top demographics for Mass.

Top Countries of Birth
El Salvador	22,000	13%
Brazil	19,000	11%
Guatemala	15,000	8%
China	13,000	7%
Dominican Republic	9,000	5%

I'd be curious to read that article if you can point me in the right direction. Does't show in results when I am searching. 

[Steve D]

3 hours ago, virgil said:

SteveD, the Pelosi quote that you posted is not exactly a declaration that she's 'pro-illegal immigration'.  I'm no fan of hers, by the way.  That statement refers specifically to 'the Dreamers', kids who are in this country through no illegal act of their own.

I agree but she has made it clear that she supports immigration whether it is legal or not. How many of these "dreamers" parents are still here illegally and is she willing to address that. Or will she address the issue of pregnant illegals coming here and their children born her are automatically citizens?

If she wasn't "pro-illegal" a lot of these issues would have been fixed before Trump came into office. Not doing anything about it is the same as supporting it when you have the power and authority to make changes.

A "path to citizenship" should apply to all not just a select few.  A path to citizenship or deportation should be the only two choices.

 

[Daveboone]

Culver Creek, I wouldn't be able to ….I was in Boston, and reading whatever local paper/ newspaper happened to be in a friends house.  I cant help but wonder though, whether (sic?) on occasion a blind eye is turned or if it is a matter of hiding in plain sight?? Boston is historically very Irish (Go Celtics!). It was funny to note the wonderfully amazing number of beautiful redheads with accents serving in the restaurants and bars though.

[DirtTime]

Well, a wall around the Texas-Mexico border......... Lets take a look at that being realistic!

There are air planes that can fly over that wall, there are boats that can bypass that border altogether, this new drone craze can bypass that wall as well. Bad people and drugs are brought in from Canada, CA, NY, Florida, and a few other states. So sure, lets build a wall around just one area to solve the issue.

 

Not to mention this wall BS has this country at it's most vulnerable in history. TSA not showing up for work, even the CIA and FBI aren't getting paid. All because of a pipe dream. I cannot live a pipe dream. Bad people and drugs are coming into this country, and not just from the TEX/MEX border! But trying to explain that is like shoving your hand in a wood chipper and wondering why people start calling you "Stubby".

 

As for MS-13 getting in, you best take a real look and not rely on Alex Jones! They get in through all the areas I mentioned. So go ahead, support Trump on a pipe dream, and then don't pressure him on defending our 2A rights! Because gun rights don't matter, a wall does.

 

[wolc123]

51 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Well, a wall around the Texas-Mexico border......... Lets take a look at that being realistic!

There are air planes that can fly over that wall, there are boats that can bypass that border altogether, this new drone craze can bypass that wall as well. Bad people and drugs are brought in from Canada, CA, NY, Florida, and a few other states. So sure, lets build a wall around just one area to solve the issue.

 

Not to mention this wall BS has this country at it's most vulnerable in history. TSA not showing up for work, even the CIA and FBI aren't getting paid. All because of a pipe dream. I cannot live a pipe dream. Bad people and drugs are coming into this country, and not just from the TEX/MEX border! But trying to explain that is like shoving your hand in a wood chipper and wondering why people start calling you "Stubby".

 

As for MS-13 getting in, you best take a real look and not rely on Alex Jones! They get in through all the areas I mentioned. So go ahead, support Trump on a pipe dream, and then don't pressure him on defending our 2A rights! Because gun rights don't matter, a wall does.

 

I have heard that approximately 90 % of the illicit drugs come in across our southern border.  There is quite a few miles of wall down there now, but most of those drugs come thru the gaps.   Why work harder to send them over, thru, or under the wall rather than just walk around ?  Illicit drugs cause the deaths of many US citizens.  A wall improves border security by allowing more efficient use of agents.         

Currently, the democrats hold just 1/6 of the power in Washington (1/2 of the legislative branch).   Their lust for more power is what drives them to fight the wall.   The unexpected pummeling they received in 2016 caused them to write off the current crop of American voters.  They are banking on a new crop for 2020.  

So building the wall will save lives, while not building it might get the democrats the Senate and Executive branch in 2020 (they have likely lost the Judicial branch for a very long time however, especially if Trump gets a couple more pics before then).         

[nyslowhand]

5 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I have heard that approximately 90 % of the illicit drugs come in across our southern border.  There is quite a few miles of wall down there now, but most of those drugs come thru the gaps.

Fact check - That portion of illegal drugs comes through the established (vehicle & pedestrian) check points. Not hauled across the Rio Grande, under fences &/or through the SW dessert by illegals carrying them while using coyote guides.

[Adkhunter1590]

The ultimate way of stopping border hoppers is to give the green light to shoot to kill anyone and everything headed across the border. Stop playing games, start dropping bodies and you’ll see these invaders think twice. Half don’t care if they get caught, three hots and a cot in one of our jails is most likely 300 times nicer than anything they grew up in. Time to play hard ball.

[greg54]

4 hours ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

The ultimate way of stopping border hoppers is to give the green light to shoot to kill anyone and everything headed across the border. Stop playing games, start dropping bodies and you’ll see these invaders think twice. Half don’t care if they get caught, three hots and a cot in one of our jails is most likely 300 times nicer than anything they grew up in. Time to play hard ball.

I agree

[diplomat019]

6 hours ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

The ultimate way of stopping border hoppers is to give the green light to shoot to kill anyone and everything headed across the border. Stop playing games, start dropping bodies and you’ll see these invaders think twice. Half don’t care if they get caught, three hots and a cot in one of our jails is most likely 300 times nicer than anything they grew up in. Time to play hard ball.

Would you pull the trigger on an old woman?   

[Adkhunter1590]

Would you pull the trigger on an old woman?   

If that’s what it took to end the madness, then yes.

[diplomat019]

1 minute ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

 

 

If that’s what it took to end the madness, then yes.

 

 

Damn.  At least your honest about being ready to shoot women and children.  Is there a reason you havent been to the border as of yet?  It seems you are very passionate and motivated.

 

 

 

Idk if i would have the gusto to do that.  I pray i would never be faced with that because i dont have it in me.  I can say that i wouldnt be able to kill an old woman unless my life was in serious danger by her.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 hours ago, Rob... said:

Well, a wall around the Texas-Mexico border......... Lets take a look at that being realistic!

There are air planes that can fly over that wall, there are boats that can bypass that border altogether, this new drone craze can bypass that wall as well. Bad people and drugs are brought in from Canada, CA, NY, Florida, and a few other states. So sure, lets build a wall around just one area to solve the issue.

 

Not to mention this wall BS has this country at it's most vulnerable in history. TSA not showing up for work, even the CIA and FBI aren't getting paid. All because of a pipe dream. I cannot live a pipe dream. Bad people and drugs are coming into this country, and not just from the TEX/MEX border! But trying to explain that is like shoving your hand in a wood chipper and wondering why people start calling you "Stubby".

 

As for MS-13 getting in, you best take a real look and not rely on Alex Jones! They get in through all the areas I mentioned. So go ahead, support Trump on a pipe dream, and then don't pressure him on defending our 2A rights! Because gun rights don't matter, a wall does.

 

It would seem that he vast majority of folks that voted for him was becasue he said he would do just what he is trying to do. 

[Adkhunter1590]

Damn.  At least your honest about being ready to shoot women and children.  Is there a reason you havent been to the border as of yet?  It seems you are very passionate and motivated.
 
 
 
Idk if i would have the gusto to do that.  I pray i would never be faced with that because i dont have it in me.  I can say that i wouldnt be able to kill an old woman unless my life was in serious danger by her.  

Not everyone can put their feelings aside to do what needs doing. Just like some can’t stomach gutting a deer even though they have no problem shooting it.

Lol ya my reason is I don’t have unlimited funds in my account to take a sabbatical to the border to be a wolf among sheep. Taking care of my family is my primary concern. Not to mention no federal authority has authorized lethal force by private citizens. In another universe, if the president said we needed someone to pull the trigger, I could put emotions aside and pull that trigger.

[CapDistPatriot]

On 1/17/2019 at 3:11 PM, The_Real_TCIII said:

I’m pretty far right but there is just no way to deport 15mm illegals. Create a path to citizenship that includes 500 hours of community service. Create 15mm taxpayers. And lock down the borders!


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback