Would you shoot a sleeping lion?

[Five Seasons]

59 minutes ago, rob-c said:

We all have our own set of ethics, and defining what we each think is ethical vs what is legal, well it doesn’t matter if we think it’s ethical or not. 

respectfully disagree. If I break the law to save a life I will sleep better at night than letting a life be taken because I had to follow the law. 

ie NY not having a castle doctrine. 

[rob-c]

22 minutes ago, Belo said:

respectfully disagree. If I break the law to save a life I will sleep better at night than letting a life be taken because I had to follow the law. 

ie NY not having a castle doctrine. 

Your flipping the argument. if it’s legal and we don’t agree with it because of our own ethics, then there’s not much to be said except we disagree with it. But if some one were breaking into my home and my wife were in danger I certainly would do what ever’s necessary even though it not being legal.  Big difference.. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by rob-c

[Pygmy]

45 minutes ago, Merlot said:

Guy was probably one twig snap away from waking the Lion. If's it's legal...why not harvest a sleeping lion. Saw a hunting program several years ago of a brown bear hunt with a guy using a bow. He snuck up on the sleeping brown bear and put one in the boiler room. 20 yards...Never knew what hit him....thought that was ballzey.

More balls than brains...Of course he probably had a guide with a BIG rifle behind him ready to kill the bear if he got up and tried to shred the hunter for pissing him of with his play toy, which often happens...

I once read that Fred Bear shot 6 polar bears before he got one he could enter in the book..He kept shooting them and they would charge, forcing the guide to kill them with the rifle, thus making them ineligible for Poe & Young...

[helmut in the bush]

When I go, I hope I die in my sleep

[moog5050]

depends on where the lion is sleeping

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, rob-c said:

Your flipping the argument. if it’s legal and we don’t agree with it because of our own ethics, then there’s not much to be said except we disagree with it. But if some one were breaking into my home and my wife were in danger I certainly would do what ever’s necessary even though it not being legal.  Big difference.. 

my point is simply this. "What is legal is not always ethical".

and the whole "as long as its legal, who cares" argument has never sat well with me.

[Steuben Jerry]

10 hours ago, Belo said:

I do struggle with shooting a sleeping/resting animal.

Years ago I had a small four point come in to bed down about 50 yards away. Took it and I was happy to get a deer, let alone a buck. It was like my third or fourth deer ever. Never gave it a thought, hell, it was probably the only deer I saw all day. So I thought it was great luck to have one lay there and give me that shot. 

Looking back on that, it seemed like cheating and I’ve passed on them ever since. But if a big 140 inch buck laid down I know I would shoot it. So I’m self-hypocrital.

[Steuben Jerry]

7 hours ago, helmut in the bush said:

When I go, I hope I die in my sleep

Me too, but not by being shot, lol.

[Five Seasons]

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/big-game/hunter-scandal-assessment-chart-the-sleeping-lion-shooter?utm_campaign=Hunter%20Scandal%20Assessment%20Chart%3A%20The%20Sleeping%20Lion%20Shooter&utm_medium=&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=1553207499


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[rob-c]

43 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Me too, but not by being shot, lol.

Just another reason for happy wife happy life.. 

[wolc123]

Yes, but I would walk around back first and shoot it directly from the rear.  That would give me a good angle to the heart and would also point it in a direction that would allow me to get the maximum amount lead into it (with follow-up shots) before it got to me.   Having pulled that shot off once on a standing buck, I would not hesitate on a sleeping lion. I would not shoot a sleeping lion from the side or the front, because my chances of escaping unharmed would be lower.      

[Dinsdale]

47 minutes ago, Belo said:

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/big-game/hunter-scandal-assessment-chart-the-sleeping-lion-shooter?utm_campaign=Hunter%20Scandal%20Assessment%20Chart%3A%20The%20Sleeping%20Lion%20Shooter&utm_medium=&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=1553207499


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Personally have never understood the attraction to Rinella  and his group of holier than thou cohorts.

What a load of bull shit to score card another hunter on a topic that they know nothing about, thtas no better then the anti's tactics. 

Someone just sent me a link to a shitty report on auction tags they posted, and every time they always have a problem with folks who have money; as if being a broke hunter is somehow superior.

What a load of drivel.

I have taken WAY more game by head count in Africa then the Lion hunter in question....maybe they want to grade me and my bank account.

 

[Hunter007]

12 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

Personally have never understood the attraction to Rinella  and his group of holier than thou cohorts.

What a load of bull shit to score card another hunter on a topic that they know nothing about, thtas no better then the anti's tactics. 

Someone just sent me a link to a shitty report on auction tags they posted, and every time they always have a problem with folks who have money; as if being a broke hunter is somehow superior.

What a load of drivel.

I have taken WAY more game by head count in Africa then the Lion hunter in question....maybe they want to grade me and my bank account.

 

All I'm going to say is hunters are sometimes are own worst enemy we need to stand together as one or little by little the left and anti groups will destroy are sport altogether, every one needs  to respect everyone else's way of hunting .If I want to shoot  lion or deer or what ever  with my take down rifle I like to carry in my backpack that's my business , or what ever weapon you use .

Or shoot my lions sleeping thats my business . Or use what ever it happens to be to hunt with . All the infighting just is dirt the anti hunters will use against all of us in the end . When one hunter says something bad about another hunters methods you can be sure that there is a anti hunter ready to use that against us  all . Poor hunters need to suport rich hunters and rich hunters need to respect poor hunters , Or all hunting and hunters  will suffer in the end  if we don't. 

 

 

[nyslowhand]

Congrats to the hunter & PH/guide! BUT.. someone is a dumb-a$$ for posting this hunt on social media and not expecting any negative responses!!!!

[Steuben Jerry]

7 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Yes, but I would walk around back first and shoot it directly from the rear.  That would give me a good angle to the heart and would also point it in a direction that would allow me to get the maximum amount lead into it (with follow-up shots) before it got to me.   Having pulled that shot off once on a standing buck, I would not hesitate on a sleeping lion. I would not shoot a sleeping lion from the side or the front, because my chances of escaping unharmed would be lower.      

The Texas lion-heart shot!

[helmut in the bush]

11 hours ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Me too, but not by being shot, lol.

Do you think it might be better to get clubbed or stabbed in your sleep? HA!

[airedale]

I would absolutely shoot a sleeping Lion or any other game animal I was hunting so long it was a free range hunt and I made the successful stalk to put myself in the position for a good shot. What I would not do is take a video of it, pictures of the hunter with his game is one thing and ok by me but I have said it many times  "hunting" is not a spectator sport and especially so for the non hunting public. It is and will be looked upon by most non hunting educated non hunting participants as an execution, watching an animal flopping around in it's death throes with blood being spilled is not a pleasant thing to watch for anyone.

As for being able to use stealth for tracking along with spot and stalk techniques to locate most hunted game species and catching them sleeping without being detected for a good shot takes some doing and serious skills, and what is the case most of the time is they are awake and alert making very tough to be undetected. Such hunting with consistency is the mark of a very good "hunter" as far as I am concerned.

Al

Edited March 22, 2019 by airedale

[Doc]

Where on earth do people come up with these screwball rules of ethics. How about you can only kill a lion that is charging you. That would make the hunt much more ethical .....right?.....lol. I can't Imagine someone who has executed a perfect stalk without waking the prey having any problems with finishing of a perfect hunt by dispatching the critter with a well placed shot. Are people imagining that wild animals go into a coma when they sleep? Really, what difference does it make in the quality of the hunt and the effort used between a sleeping lion and an awake one? I don't get it.

Now if the lion is sleeping in a pen next to his pet dish full of milk........I'm sure I would have a problem with that.....lol.

[left field]

I can't comment on a sleeping animal as I've never been in that situation, but was this a clean shot? Why did he shoot three times? Is that normal with lions?

I will say that a video of an animal snapping and writhing in pain as it dies helps no one. For the life of me I don't understand why people post these videos. That takes a real disconnect to the current mindset and the challenges facing hunting.

 

[Doc]

15 hours ago, Belo said:

my point is simply this. "What is legal is not always ethical".

and the whole "as long as its legal, who cares" argument has never sat well with me.

I agree! Ethics are a personal feeling that is dictated by individual backgrounds and attitudes toward hunting. Laws indicate what behavior you will get arrested for, but ethics are a code of conduct individually developed internally that form personal opinions on hunting activities. Some legislator or DEC desk jockey does not determine my personal ethics. Having said that, one of my big things in my ethics involves always abiding by the laws. I don't always have to agree with them, but I do my best to abide by them.

[Hunter007]

Would the lion not kill me if I was asleep? So why should the hunter not do it ?

[Steuben Jerry]

49 minutes ago, helmut in the bush said:

Do you think it might be better to get clubbed or stabbed in your sleep? HA!

No, none of those things!!

[Uncle Nicky]

10 hours ago, Dinsdale said:

Personally have never understood the attraction to Rinella  and his group of holier than thou cohorts.

What a load of bull shit to score card another hunter on a topic that they know nothing about, thtas no better then the anti's tactics. 

Someone just sent me a link to a shitty report on auction tags they posted, and every time they always have a problem with folks who have money; as if being a broke hunter is somehow superior.

What a load of drivel.

I have taken WAY more game by head count in Africa then the Lion hunter in question....maybe they want to grade me and my bank account.

 

Yeah, I don't follow much of these "celebrity" TV hunters, especially since Verizon cut the outdoor channels from their lineup where I live. I always read on these forums what a great guy Steve Rinella is, down-to-earth, eats what he kills, bringing us back to the "real" reason we should hunt, blah, blah, blah....But calling out other hunters publicly is sad. If I had any respect for the man, it's gone now.

[steve863]

10 hours ago, Dinsdale said:

Personally have never understood the attraction to Rinella  and his group of holier than thou cohorts.

 

What attracts a lot of people to him and guys like Randy Newberg is that their videos not only show the hunting and killing of the animal (where most other hunting videos will end) but also the field care, processing and eventually the preparation of the meat.  Their popularity proves that it's not all about horns and trophies to MANY hunters out there.  Others will claim, like FSW and others here, that a hunter wouldn't even get out of bed to go hunting if the possibility of killing a huge buck didn't exist.  I call BS on that and the popularity of TV hunters like Rinella and Newberg proves the point that I am not alone in that philosophy.

 

 

[Five Seasons]

12 hours ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Years ago I had a small four point come in to bed down about 50 yards away. Took it and I was happy to get a deer, let alone a buck. It was like my third or fourth deer ever. Never gave it a thought, hell, it was probably the only deer I saw all day. So I thought it was great luck to have one lay there and give me that shot. 

Looking back on that, it seemed like cheating and I’ve passed on them ever since. But if a big 140 inch buck laid down I know I would shoot it. So I’m self-hypocrital.

that's why I chose my words carefully. And said "struggle" to take that shot. There is a similar discussion though about the compressed organs and your shot placement.

10 hours ago, Dinsdale said:

Personally have never understood the attraction to Rinella  and his group of holier than thou cohorts.

What a load of bull shit to score card another hunter on a topic that they know nothing about, thtas no better then the anti's tactics. 

Someone just sent me a link to a shitty report on auction tags they posted, and every time they always have a problem with folks who have money; as if being a broke hunter is somehow superior.

What a load of drivel.

I have taken WAY more game by head count in Africa then the Lion hunter in question....maybe they want to grade me and my bank account.

 

I don't think you know much about Rinella at all from this post. And there's a lot to unpack here.

First, nobody should ever agree with everything else someone else believes, and I'm mostly speaking to the trumpers on this site. But Rinella got his beginning living dirt poor in Michigan. He became a writer and then a successful producer of a show that was on the sportsman channel and later netflix. He doesn't trophy hunt and spends half the show talking about the landscape and the processing of whatever he killed (if he gets something at all). His show has featured everything from elk to squirrel, beaver trapping and some exotic south american stuff. To put him in a category with some of the tv personalities is unfair. To judge him on just 30 minutes of show is unfair. I've listened to hours, upon hours of his podcast and they are some of the most thoughtful, real, down to earth sportsman you'll ever hear. 

The whole idea of the scorecard is to rate the impact hunters have on the community. And while you may disagree with it, it's an absolute fact that what this guy did was another blow to our sport. People don't like this kind of thing and it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not. Dudes need to stop sharing their pics and videos and the antis will have less shit to moan about. And if you disagree with that, eventually you'll lose the rights completely. 

Finally, you're a big game African hunter. The only active one on this board as far as I know, or at least the only one who has done a lot of it. It's clear you're passionate about it and take offense to this topic. Fine, but you need to remember most of us are blue collar whitetail hunters and our biggest dream is to hunt a rocky mountain bull elk. If you have truly done as much African hunting as you claim, you're not hurting for cash. What Steve and the guys argue about when it comes to money is that fundamentally they generally don't believe anyone's bank account should provide them better or exclusive access to a public resource. They are huge proponents of public land access and are the main reason I joined BHA. They also recognize that the majority of conservation money comes from lottery tags from out of state. It's a delicate topic and one they talk at lengths about.

I also take personal issue with your "I've taken WAY more game.." who cares man? This isn't a dick measuring contest. You directly contradict your "holier than thou" criticism when you end your post like that. It reads to me that you believe you're better than the guy who shot the sleeping lion and better than Rinella and his group. Isn't that what set you off about the article in the first place?

30 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Yeah, I don't follow much of these "celebrity" TV hunters, especially since Verizon cut the outdoor channels from their lineup where I live. I always read on these forums what a great guy Steve Rinella is, down-to-earth, eats what he kills, bringing us back to the "real" reason we should hunt, blah, blah, blah....But calling out other hunters publicly is sad. If I had any respect for the man, it's gone now.

Rinella has never been on the outdoor channel. It should be noted that meat-eater is a brand and that Rinella himself didn't post the article. And honestly... some dudes need to be called out. Should we just ignore the amish guy who was poaching trophy bucks in ohio because he's "another hunter"? How very union of you

Edited March 22, 2019 by Belo