Football concussion advice

[Steuben Jerry]

Good decision Zag. Like others said, he'll thank you for it later. Love the pics!

BTW, how's your concussion doing?

[Zag]

8 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Good decision Zag. Like others said, he'll thank you for it later. Love the pics!

BTW, how's your concussion doing?

Thanks Jerry!! I'm pretty good, computer, tv and phones give me a little headache still so I'm trying to limit screen time.

[NYBowhunter]

Good call on your part, not a fan of football especially after all these brain injuries have surfaced. My boys would have excelled in footba and have played flag in the past (even that got brutal at times)  but i purposely never gave them that opportunity because of the same fears you are struggling with right now. In all honesty, had that been my son, he would have never set foot on that field after his first concussion, scholarship potential or not. My boys excel in baseball  and my 15yt. Old is exceptional and pitches for Varsity as a freshman and is damn good, but i let all coaches know his health is first. I WILL NOT sacrafice his arm just for a win, scholarship etc.., my goal is to keep him off the streets, keep him focused in school, have structure and in shape  and after its all over and if he lands a scholarship fine.  If not,  more importantly i want him to be a healthy adult, not someone that will suffer through life for the sake of a sport. Tough call im sure  but at 11 you made the right choice for him. There are risks in all sports, but some are just down right brutal on the body.

[grampy]

zag you made the very best decision for your talented son, based on the situation. Sports, or anything, is not more important than doing all we can as parents, to keep our kids healthy. And protecting them from long term issues, if we have the opportunity to do so. As parents, that is among our number one priority.

Your son is only eleven. The competition in football only gets bigger, faster, and stronger in football, as you go up to the HS varsity level. As I said in my earlier post, I get nervous watching my grandson play at the varsity level. I know he loves the game, and trains hard, year round to be in top playing shape. But the hits at that level are frightening. He has the very best in coaching and equipment. But it still scares the crap outta me! If by a long shot, he does get a scholarship to play football, no doubt it will take a toll on him later in life. Ask any former collegiate football player. They've all payed a toll for their tuition. Some more than others.

Baseball for your son will be his outlet. Now he can concentrate year round on developing his skills. There are the indoor winter camps. These are very good at developing, and improving skills that he will use when the grass gets green. And get him in to the best travel teams available. The better the competition, the better your son will be.

I wish him and you good health, recovering from the concussions. As said by someone else, one day he will understand, and thank you for protecting him.

 

 

[moog5050]

Zag

Playing QB at that age means he is an excellent athlete.  While he won't see it now, I have no doubt he will find the right alternative sport to devote those talents.  We had several players on my college team that had to stop playing (late 80s and early 90s) due to regular concussions.  Honestly, it was clear that the concussions were having a permanent effect on some of these guys.  As much as I love football, 2 concussions would be enough for me to push my child to a different sport.  Lots of great sports for athletes like your son that don't carry such risk.  Good decision even though he won't appreciate it now.

 

[Five Seasons]

I can tell you this from a perspective of someone who is trained in concussions and is a director of football for a youth football team. Concussions are no joke. However, the biggest risk is receiving a concussion when you haven't recovered from the first. Generally speaking 2 concussions in youth sports are not rare. My advice is to listen to the doctors (doctors plural) and not the internet. Let him rest and fully recover before he sees the field and focus on tackling fundamentals that will help him avoid future head injuries. 

Worst case, he stops playing sports and that would suck. I gained so much from football growing up, and that's why I volunteer an ungodly amount of time as an adult. But it's not worth your health. Best case he's fine all the way through high school. And somewhere in the middle, could be a position change to defense focused where he has more control of where and how he hits. 

good luck and feel free to pm me if you want

[Core]

On 9/8/2019 at 6:46 PM, zag said:

It's been a bad few days. I got a concussion from my tree stand fall and my son got his 2nd concussion at football today, last year he received his first concussion. I'm not sure what to do at this point, last yr my thoughts were...he might never get another one and keep going, now after #2 I feel like that should be my answer but I also feel like it could become an endless cycle. He's a really good athlete, he plays qb, te and outside lb, so he's almost always around the football. I hate to succumb to concussion but I'm not feeling to good about continuing the same path. Hope I'm making some sense here. Any advice would be appreciated!

This is easy.

He shouldn't play football. Every concussion a person receives is associated with higher odds of long term brain damage. Receiving multiple ones at his age is extremely bad for his health. Essentially 100% of NFL athletes will have CTE.

You know this. I shouldn't even have to tell you.

I am militant about this sort of thing: i believe we need to immediately cease all activities associated with high odds of concussions in children. We are not caring for our children to tolerate them being in these high-injury sports. They are kids, it is our duty to protect them from themselves.

EDIT: I see you pulled him. This is the right move!

Somebody said pull him if he's doesn't have good odds of a scholarship. I disagree, pull anyway. There is a reason why essentially 100% of NFL athletes with autopsies show CTE. It's a devastating activity on the body. Heck, half of NFL athletes are forced into retirement because of chronic injury. I have a super dim view on the sport as a whole. it just chews people up and spits them out.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Core

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 9/8/2019 at 6:46 PM, zag said:

It's been a bad few days. I got a concussion from my tree stand fall and my son got his 2nd concussion at football today, last year he received his first concussion. I'm not sure what to do at this point, last yr my thoughts were...he might never get another one and keep going, now after #2 I feel like that should be my answer but I also feel like it could become an endless cycle. He's a really good athlete, he plays qb, te and outside lb, so he's almost always around the football. I hate to succumb to concussion but I'm not feeling to good about continuing the same path. Hope I'm making some sense here. Any advice would be appreciated!

My sophomore year in high school  I had a severe concussion. That would have been back in 1981 and there certainly wasn't the insight or hype that there is today. There was no concussion protocol. Basically get an all clear from family doctor and good to go. It happened at the end of the first quarter. I remembered the hit and my whole body feeling like pins and needles. like when you sleep on your arm and it starts to come back around. I played the second quarter, went through half time and played the 3rd quarter and the start of the 4th. It was like I "came to" at that point but couldn't remember my play assignments. They took me off the field, I couldn't remember peoples names, who was president or what day it was. Over the next  week things came back but there has always been a black hole from the hit until I "came to". A week and a half later I was back playing. I  really put up a stink becasue my parents wanted me out for the season and they gave in. In hind sight they were right. Especially given what we know now. I know you said he is really good.   (I know some on here are saying "well that explains a lot"..lol)

 

Reality is he MAY end up with a scholarship and is unlikely to ever make a living doing it professionally. I can guarantee he will need that brain for the rest of his life, though. 

It's a call you and the Mrs will have to make and I am SURE it will not be popular with him if you decide he is out. This is one of the lonely at the top decisions and one you make as a parent, not his friend.  Good luck on this. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[crappyice]

zag you made the very best decision for your talented son, based on the situation. Sports, or anything, is not more important than doing all we can as parents, to keep our kids healthy. And protecting them from long term issues, if we have the opportunity to do so. As parents, that is among our number one priority.
Your son is only eleven. The competition in football only gets bigger, faster, and stronger in football, as you go up to the HS varsity level. As I said in my earlier post, I get nervous watching my grandson play at the varsity level. I know he loves the game, and trains hard, year round to be in top playing shape. But the hits at that level are frightening. He has the very best in coaching and equipment. But it still scares the crap outta me! If by a long shot, he does get a scholarship to play football, no doubt it will take a toll on him later in life. Ask any former collegiate football player. They've all payed a toll for their tuition. Some more than others.
Baseball for your son will be his outlet. Now he can concentrate year round on developing his skills. There are the indoor winter camps. These are very good at developing, and improving skills that he will use when the grass gets green. And get him in to the best travel teams available. The better the competition, the better your son will be.
I wish him and you good health, recovering from the concussions. As said by someone else, one day he will understand, and thank you for protecting him.
 
 

Good decision because it yours and your family’s.

While he may be a great baseball player (and following him in the little league thread this summer was fun for me!) I would caution against the full focus on one sport advice. Not only is arm care and wearing out “baseball muscles” real, the idea of building a complete athlete is not typically possible when kids only focus on one sport. Coaches at all levels (especially college who have limited funds for scholarships) wants ATHLETES FIRST who have strong skills in the sport they are coaching. A talented multi sport athlete is more attractive than an equally skilled “one sport focused” kid. That other sport doesn’t need to be football but do look for another sport to develop other core strength areas and allow sport specific muscles rest.

Good luck


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[ATbuckhunter]

On 9/8/2019 at 8:18 PM, zag said:

Scholarship is the end game but he's only 11 so we're yrs away from really knowing if he has a shot for one. He is a strong athlete in each sport that he plays. 

Woah 2 by age 11? Personally if it was my kid, id be stoping him from even watching football. We're only realizing how bad CTE is now, and from what we already know its not too good. At age 11 he has plenty of time to find some other activities for him to be persuing instead of one that is already causing harm. Very tough decision, but I think it has to be made

Edit: Should have read the rest of the thread before I responded lol. I think you made a good decision imo

Edited September 11, 2019 by ATbuckhunter

[Nomad]

If you want your kid to get a scholarship, have him pick,up,a book or  a paint brush. Academic and art ,lead the money in scholarships, sports rank number three.

 

[Core]

7 hours ago, Nomad said:

If you want your kid to get a scholarship, have him pick,up,a book or  a paint brush. Academic and art ,lead the money in scholarships, sports rank number three.

 

Those are also far more likely to grow skills that are actually applicable to a career as well. There is an excessive attention paid to sport accolades in this country. My idiot neighbor actually kept his kid back a year so that he'd be a year older/larger for sports. The kid is a bit chubby and never going to amount to any elite athlete.

[NYBowhunter]

50 minutes ago, Core said:

Those are also far more likely to grow skills that are actually applicable to a career as well. There is an excessive attention paid to sport accolades in this country. My idiot neighbor actually kept his kid back a year so that he'd be a year older/larger for sports. The kid is a bit chubby and never going to amount to any elite athlete.

That has to be probably one of the dumbest things i have ever heard a parent do to a child . What are they thinking holding a kid back a year academically,  for sports? Thats just plain stupid. Holding the kid back means that he couldnt compete or standout from kids his same age. That makes no sense what so ever. 

[steve863]

44 minutes ago, Core said:

Those are also far more likely to grow skills that are actually applicable to a career as well. There is an excessive attention paid to sport accolades in this country. My idiot neighbor actually kept his kid back a year so that he'd be a year older/larger for sports. The kid is a bit chubby and never going to amount to any elite athlete.

 

Many times it's the parents who get more wrapped up in their kids sport than the kids.  Win or lose most kids just want to go get a pizza, burger, etc. after a game.   It's usually the parents who are in a huff if their kids team loses or the child performs poorly and not the kids.  In the scheme of things it would benefit the child so much more if they put emphasis on learning over playing sports.  I would even question whether kids who play sports are more fit than those that don't.  Maybe my sample is somehow skewed, but I've seen so many people who didn't play sports as youngsters end up in better shape in later life than those that did play sports.  Go figure that one out.  Many who weren't into competitive sports took up activities like going to the gym, jogging, biking, hiking, all activities one can continue into old age, and activities that are more beneficial to ones health than any team sport will ever be.

 

 

[Core]

14 minutes ago, steve863 said:

I would even question whether kids who play sports are more fit than those that don't.  Maybe my sample is somehow skewed, but I've seen so many people who didn't play sports as youngsters end up in better shape in later life than those that did play sports.  Go figure that one out.  Many who weren't into competitive sports took up activities like going to the gym, jogging, biking, hiking, all activities one can continue into old age, and activities that are more beneficial to ones health than any team sport will ever be.

It's so funny you say that. I have noticed the same thing. By far the fittest I've ever been was when I was in my late 20's. Was never big into sports as a kid. I've never followed pro sports, but continue to be in far better shape than lots of people who spend sunday on the couch watching football. I agree about the parents. All this time and money spent sending their kid off to dance competitions or hockey tournaments, when that kid in fact would be far better served by having the money dumped into a college fund, particularly given the fact that almost none of these kids could ever be professionals even if they made it into adulthood without injuries and wanted to be.

I keenly remember being at work years back with a guy in his 20's who had messed his back up so badly with football that he couldn't even sit still for long. he was in a conference room with us and had to squat down to relieve pressure. But he was "important" for a couple of years in college playing football. Now has a lifetime of pain to live with.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Core

[Merlot]

2 concussions x 11 years old = no more football. Just my 2 cents. Your son's health is way more important than a football scholarship. Switch to another sport.

[Five Seasons]

On 9/10/2019 at 9:42 AM, Core said:

Essentially 100% of NFL athletes will have CTE.

 

lol wut?

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Core said:

It's so funny you say that. I have noticed the same thing. By far the fittest I've ever been was when I was in my late 20's. Was never big into sports as a kid. I've never followed pro sports, but continue to be in far better shape than lots of people who spend sunday on the couch watching football. I agree about the parents. All this time and money spent sending their kid off to dance competitions or hockey tournaments, when that kid in fact would be far better served by having the money dumped into a college fund, particularly given the fact that almost none of these kids could ever be professionals even if they made it into adulthood without injuries and wanted to be.

I keenly remember being at work years back with a guy in his 20's who had messed his back up so badly with football that he couldn't even sit still for long. he was in a conference room with us and had to squat down to relieve pressure. But he was "important" for a couple of years in college playing football. Now has a lifetime of pain to live with.

someone watching sports on sunday and those who were active 3 sport athletes in their youth are in no way the same thing. What happens to adults is they get married, have kids, metabolism goes down and they put on some pounds. It's harder than it was as a kid to stay in shape. 

But many, myself included still hit the gym 4 times a week and maintain it. I don't do any of my gym workouts because I used to be an athlete who received d3 scholarship offers. I do it to stay in shape for myself, wife and kids. trying to tie youth athletics to those who have a gym membership as adults is silly in my opinion. 

[Nomad]

Polk High !

 

[Core]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

lol wut?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2645104

Findings  In a convenience sample of 202 deceased players of American football from a brain donation program, CTE was neuropathologically diagnosed in 177 players across all levels of play (87%), including 110 of 111 former National Football League players (99%).

--

Now you can argue this subset isn't representative of the average NFL player because those more likely to have mental issues were more likely to submit to this study, etc. etc. there is still no way to diagnose CTE in living individuals.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Core

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Core said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2645104

Findings  In a convenience sample of 202 deceased players of American football from a brain donation program, CTE was neuropathologically diagnosed in 177 players across all levels of play (87%), including 110 of 111 former National Football League players (99%).

--

Now you can argue this subset isn't representative of the average NFL player because those more likely to have mental issues were more likely to submit to this study, etc. etc. there is still no way to diagnose CTE in living individuals.

there are over 1500 active players each year, with an average career of 3 years. 111 is  horrible sample size, and is also only those who wanted to be tested, meaning they likely did suffer from the issue. I'm not saying concussions aren't a problem, far from it. But your statement and that study are not scientific. 

[Fletch]

I think you made the right decision. There are safer sports and activities. As much as I agree with some of the posters that some sports and parents and the over obsessiveness of it is ridiculous now.

 

I also think kids that grow up playing team sports, not trophy for all sports!, learn a lot of skills that are not taught in most other circumstances. Working as a team with a team, having others rely on you, realizing your hard work has results, ability to be coached and in some cases learning to lead others. Learning how to lose! Most coaches have hard set rules unlike today's' classrooms to teach kids responsibility. You miss or slack practice you ride the bench...You travel with a team and learn how to be responsible for yourself, your gear and so forth. I am a big proponent for group sports as we sit around and watch are youth sitting in a dark room playing video games I for one like to see mine out in the air exercising. I feel the same about hunting. I think it offers a lot to help develop more rounded kids...to adults. Studies support this.

 

I'd love to see a study that says out of kids that did not play sports and kids that did that the did not are more fit the rest of their life. . lol

Edited September 11, 2019 by Fletch

[Core]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

there are over 1500 active players each year, with an average career of 3 years. 111 is  horrible sample size, and is also only those who wanted to be tested, meaning they likely did suffer from the issue. I'm not saying concussions aren't a problem, far from it. But your statement and that study are not scientific. 

The study is scientific, and statistically sound. My conclusion was inconsistent with it, though.

If you prefer I can reword my earlier statement to the following: 99% of tested ex-NFL players have been found to have CTE.

[Core]

2 hours ago, Fletch said:

I think you made the right decision. There are safer sports and activities. As much as I agree with some of the posters that some sports and parents and the over obsessiveness of it is ridiculous now.

Is it? We're only recently learning how injurious concussions are, and some are positing that even a single concussion can cause brain damage. Reliably, it's profoundly difficult to understand the causation behind things that effect people with multi-year delays. Very hard to do, which is why at times it can take years or decades to truly understand an environment's impact on a person.

https://www.npr.org/2013/03/15/174409382/can-just-one-concussion-change-the-brain

Edited September 11, 2019 by Core

[Fletch]

9 minutes ago, Core said:

Is it? We're only recently learning how injurious concussions are, and some are positing that even a single concussion can cause brain damage. Reliably, it's profoundly difficult to understand the causation behind things that effect people with multi-year delays. Very hard to do, which is why at times it can take years or decades to truly understand an environment's impact on a person.

https://www.npr.org/2013/03/15/174409382/can-just-one-concussion-change-the-brain

I think you misunderstood my poorly written post lol.

 

I meant the obsessiveness of sports and playing 5 leagues and the parents more involved than the kids.......not obsessiveness with concussions...concussions is serious shit.

 

More my bad writing than you misunderstanding me thinks!!