My posted property that has a stream running thru it , trespassers

[luberhill]

Can people walk down the stream thru my property ?

I own the land on either side of the stream .

 I assume I own the land under the stream too 

Not sure how that works 

Everything I read online says I own the land under the stream and as soon as someone crosses my land to get to the stream they are trespassing .

I really wouldn’t care but the kids are going there and trashing it... all kinds of crap , garbage , tarps etc

[Chef]

Can people walk down the stream thru my property ?
I own the land on either side of the stream .
 I assume I own the land under the stream too 
Not sure how that works 
Everything I read online says I own the land under the stream and as soon as someone crosses my land to get to the stream they are trespassing .
I really wouldn’t care but the kids are going there and trashing it... all kinds of crap , garbage , tarps etc

Stream yes you own. Navigable waterway you do not. People have this argument on the East branch of the Delaware


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[luberhill]

8 minutes ago, Chef said:

Stream yes you own. Navigable waterway you do not. People have this argument on the East branch of the Delaware


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Yea it’s just a stream .. 8 ft wide , rocky , shallow with deeper pockets

[G-Man]

Non navigable put a fence across it and posted signs in middle, if a canoe can go down it you do not own it to weigh water mark. 

[DDT]

My friend owns property that the Naples creek runs through. He can't stop passage and fishing because the fish can navigate it

[luberhill]

4 minutes ago, DDT said:

My friend owns property that the Naples creek runs through. He can't stop passage and fishing because the fish can navigate it

Yea not sure that’s considered navigable .. fish or minnows can navigate a mud puddle.

I believe the law means by boat or raft etc

[Grouse]

A lot of the Beaverkill is posted and it's right along side of a public road.

[left field]

It's complicated: https://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/74771.html

Are they crossing your property to get to the stream? 

[WNYBuckHunter]

If it’s navigable with a canoe or kayak at any point of the year, you don’t own it. The actual law is more complicated, but that is the ultra short version in simple terms. Had this discussion years ago with ENCON and a land owner that called them because I was Fishing a section of Honeoye creek, which I walked to up the creek bed. 
 

if yours is only 8 feet wide, I wouldnt think that would be the case though. Just give a shout to the DEC and ask. 

[luberhill]

6 minutes ago, left field said:

It's complicated: https://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/74771.html

Are they crossing your property to get to the stream? 

Yes they are .. even if the walked the stream from another property my understanding is when and where the creek crosses on me it’s private property

[luberhill]

4 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

If it’s navigable with a canoe or kayak at any point of the year, you don’t own it. The actual law is more complicated, but that is the ultra short version in simple terms. Had this discussion years ago with ENCON and a land owner that called them because I was Fishing a section of Honeoye creek, which I walked to up the creek bed. 
 

if yours is only 8 feet wide, I wouldnt think that would be the case though. Just give a shout to the DEC and ask. 

Yea you can’t float a boat or canoe .. much of it I can walk across, there are deeper pockets here and there but going down it in a boat ... nope

[Grouse]

Most of the year mine is shallow and 6 feet across, but the spring melt brings it up high and 10 feet across.  You could go down it at that time in a canoe or kayak if you had a death wish.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Grouse

[phantom]

From what I understand If they stay in the water not yours .  once they step out the water then its trespassing  be it ocean river or what ever body of water you can think of .  Technically any body of water is  navigable  at some point or part of the year .

[Farflung]

part of the thorny question regarding navagability is wheter logs can be floated down the river, and has the stream at your point ever been used for this person as far upstream as you own. It was originally defined by commercial traffic. Has been significant litigation regarding this with canoers in the  central Adirondacks. DEC might be hesitant to give out a legal opinion unless it is totally clear. But folks can not trespass across your property to reach even navigable waters. 

[Grouse]

If nothing else, you could have them prosecuted for littering no matter what the trespassing laws say.

[Nytracker]

  My question then is how can dsr on the salmon river block people from fishing with out paying ? I understand  floating through. It is public water way. It was used as a commercial  water way  and I kayak could go through...  I guess it matters who you are and how much money you have .

[ncountry]

This covers it ..Mostly..

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/118441.html

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 minutes ago, phantom said:

From what I understand If they stay in the water not yours .  once they step out the water then its trespassing  be it ocean river or what ever body of water you can think of .  Technically any body of water is  navigable  at some point or part of the year .

And there’s where it gets tricky. The example that I have Experience with, Honeoye creek, for a lot of the summer is dry with a small mostly shallow running creek with deeper pockets that hold fish. When it rains a lot and in the spring, it’s quite a bit deeper and in most places 30 feet or more wide. The DEC officer pointed out that the defined creek bed, even when dry, is not private property. In the pictures below you can see what I mean.

[ncountry]

37 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

And there’s where it gets tricky. The example that I have Experience with, Honeoye creek, for a lot of the summer is dry with a small mostly shallow running creek with deeper pockets that hold fish. When it rains a lot and in the spring, it’s quite a bit deeper and in most places 30 feet or more wide. The DEC officer pointed out that the defined creek bed, even when dry, is not private property. In the pictures below you can see what I mean.

It's funny how different officers will interpret the law.

I remember reading some of the case that is referenced by the DEC in my link. 

Because of the ruling the fisherman could boat down the river, but could not anchor or walk the river, Except to Portage. In fact the land owner owned the river bottom.

I had done my research for some whitewater kayaking, and it pretty much came down to run it at your own risk and fight it out in court.. lol

[Bigfoot 327]

2 hours ago, DDT said:

My friend owns property that the Naples creek runs through. He can't stop passage and fishing because the fish can navigate it

NYSDEC has permanent easements on most of Naples Creek allowing public access for fishing. So, Naples isn't your typical stream.

A friend of mine had a stream next to his house. DEC would not stock it because a neighbor didn't allow access.

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

From what I understand If they stay in the water not yours .  once they step out the water then its trespassing  be it ocean river or what ever body of water you can think of .  Technically any body of water is  navigable  at some point or part of the year .

Not true above a natural falls is not.  though stream. May be deep enough above  if you need to get out and drag or Portage any point to terminus above that  natural obstacle is not navigable. 

[dinorocks]

Back in my whitewater kayaking days, our club needed to get an attorney involved because we were getting hassled so much...we all received a letter that we would show the police when they stopped us.  We had the right to be ON the water (navigatable)...no dams.  Regarding  the Salmon River (posted sections)...you can drift and fish but not anchor.

[Northcountryman]

3 hours ago, luberhill said:

Yea it’s just a stream .. 8 ft wide , rocky , shallow with deeper pockets

Chef is right ; the. You own it 

[Northcountryman]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

A lot of the Beaverkill is posted and it's right along side of a public road.

True , but I think that’s only when part of the stream is owned by a club or something 

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, luberhill said:

Yes they are .. even if the walked the stream from another property my understanding is when and where the creek crosses on me it’s private property

Correct