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I get the feeling some of you really think that business people exist just to put people to work... business is about making money... anything that deters a business owner from staying in that business is not going to be good for employment.. smart people should think very carefully about pissing off the business owners in this country... unions and our government have already driven most of the private sector businesses out of the country... Seigel is giving you all an insight on what will happen if things continue on the path that Obama is taking us.. not just his business though.. you can bet that there are many business owners that employ a lot of people that feel the same way... when those ex-employees are sitting home without a job.. it will be too late to say i told you so

Within my first 5 years of bowhunting, I cant tell you how many deer, including 2 bucks that were 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year olds that I passed because I was not comfortable with the shot due to distance and other factors. I have also made a couple of bad shots and lost a very nice buck last year because of it. Theres a difference between botching a shot that is within your limits and taking a shot that you know is outside your limits just because its an "opportunity". The latter is unethical.

True story...poll the members here on their occupation...and you'd be surprised to see how many attorneys there are on here. There's at LEAST two that have posted on this thread. I'm not one of them, though. This is just a typical early season hunting thread...people have that angst built up and just need to go hunt and kill stuff. Don't take it personal, just tell us to shove it.

Doc: I also encourage you to visit the bowhunting harvest thread. I spent my own time, gas, and money helping another forum member who was willing to learn, in order to get his first deer. The first time I met the guy was at his property. We walked it, scouted it, and he gave me his thoughts and we made a plan together. First sit...dead deer and a great experience for everyone. Bowhunters are notorious for being greedy, private, and snobish. Keep perpetuating it by saying "i want my deer close and I have more respect for one who kills at 10 vs. 50." and I'll keep dispelling it by walking the walk and helping others.

did in his email to his employees about the success of his business and how if Obama continues for the next four years as president, he will have to cut back and lay people off. It's pretty lengthy but worth the read: Subject: Message from David Siegel Date:Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:58:05 -0400 (EDT) From: [David Siegel] To: [All employees] To All My Valued Employees, As most of you know our company, Westgate Resorts, has continued to succeed in spite of a very dismal economy. There is no question that the economy has changed for the worse and we have not seen any improvement over the past four years. In spite of all of the challenges we have faced, the good news is this: The economy doesn't currently pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is another 4 years of the same Presidential administration. Of course, as your employer, I can't tell you whom to vote for, and I certainly wouldn't interfere with your right to vote for whomever you choose. In fact, I encourage you to vote for whomever you think will serve your interests the best. However, let me share a few facts that might help you decide what is in your best interest.The current administration and members of the press have perpetuated an environment that casts employers against employees. They want you to believe that we live in a class system where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. They label us the "1%" and imply that we are somehow immune to the challenges that face our country. This could not be further from the truth. Sure, you may have heard about the big home that I'm building. I'm sure many people think that I live a privileged life. However, what you don't see or hear is the true story behind any success that I have achieved. I started this company over 42 years ago. At that time, I lived in a very modest home. I converted my garage into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you. We didn't eat in fancy restaurants or take expensive vacations because every dollar I made went back into this company. I drove an old used car, and often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business - hard work, discipline, and sacrifice. Meanwhile, many of my friends got regular jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a nice income, and they spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into this business --with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford to buy whatever I wanted. Even to this day, every dime I earn goes back into this company. Over the past four years I have had to stop building my dream house, cut back on all of my expenses, and take my kids out of private schools simply to keep this company strong and to keep you employed. Just think about this - most of you arrive at work in the morning and leave that afternoon and the rest of your time is yours to do as you please. But not me- there is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have that freedom. I eat, live, and breathe this company every minute of the day, every day of the week. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. I know many of you work hard and do a great job, but I'm the one who has to sign every check, pay every expense, and make sure that this company continues to succeed. Unfortunately, what most people see is the nice house and the lavish lifestyle. What the press certainly does not want you to see, is the true story of the hard work and sacrifices I've made. Now, the economy is falling apart and people like me who made all the right decisions and invested in themselves are being forced to bail out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed 42 years of my life for. Yes, business ownership has its benefits, but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds. Unfortunately, the costs of running a business have gotten out of control, and let me tell you why: We are being taxed to death and the government thinks we don't pay enough. We pay state taxes, federal taxes, property taxes, sales and use taxes, payroll taxes, workers compensation taxes and unemployment taxes. I even have to hire an entire department to manage all these taxes. The question I have is this: Who is really stimulating the economy? Is it the Government that wants to take money from those who have earned it and give it to those who have not, or is it people like me who built a company out of his garage and directly employs over 7000 people and hosts over 3 million people per year with a great vacation? Obviously, our present government believes that taking my money is the right economic stimulus for this country. The fact is, if I deducted 50 percent of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? Who wants to get rewarded only 50 percent of their hard work? Well, that's what happens to me. Here is what most people don't understand and the press and our Government has chosen to ignore - to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Instead of raising my taxes and depositing that money into the Washington black-hole, let me spend it on growing the company, hire more employees, and generate substantial economic growth. My employees will enjoy the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But that is not what our current Government wants you to believe. They want you to believe that it somehow makes sense to take more from those who create wealth and give it to those who do not, and somehow our economy will improve. They don't want you to know that the "1%", as they like to label us, pay more than 31% of all the taxes in this country. Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate business, not kill it. However, the power brokers in Washington believe redistributing wealth is the essential driver of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change they want. So where am I going with all this? It's quite simple. If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company. Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone. So, when you make your decision to vote, ask yourself, which candidate understands the economics of business ownership and who doesn't? Whose policies will endanger your job? Answer those questions and you should know who might be the one capable of protecting and saving your job. While the media wants to tell you to believe the "1 percenters" are bad, I'm telling you they are not. They create most of the jobs. If you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the "1%"; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country. You see, I can no longer support a system that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, so will your opportunities. If that happens, you can find me in the Caribbean sitting on the beach, under a palm tree, retired, and with no employees to worry about. Signed, your boss, David Siegel

Just happened on this site surfing the net and liked what I saw so I figured I'd join in. I hunt mostly in Wayne County (Ontario) where I live with a house on 13 acres and in Yates County on Italy Hill. I mostly hunt deer, turkey, and small game but my true passion is bowhunting deer. I managed to head out west on an elk bowhunt in 2009 and even though I didn't tag an elk I had a blast and can't wait for the opportunity to hunt out west again. This year is my 30th bow season and will be my 29th gun season. Finally got into muzzleloader hunting a couple years ago. I got my first trail cam this year and found out how addicting that is...can't wait to check out my next set of pictures. In the off season I enjoy kayaking with my wife, camping, and going after bass or pike. Good Luck to everybody this year - Hunt safe and hard!

Quit funding them. Isnt that why they are here? If we quit providing there every need they have no reason to be here. Yes they are here and alot more thanks to your buddy in office. They have no legal right to be here thats why they are called illegal immigrants so why do we continue to provide them with means to stay? Take that away and do you think they will stay? Oh, right. 'Self-deportation'. Forgot about that genius plan.

Is it too late to write me onto the ballot for 2012?? Of course Doewhacker will be my running mate. All of you will be invited to the inaugural ball if we get elected. You will all get VIP treatment, I can assure you. Except the antler restriction supporters of course. They will be sent to Guantanamo.

Steve863 in 2016.

If you dont want theme here and they are not here then there is no one to patch up and send home. Get it? So do tell me there smart one where does it say force them to go home? But, they ARE here. Do you have a time machine so that we can go back and prevent the problem from happening in the first place? What is your proposed solution?

"I also find it humourous that these same people sit on there ass and copy paste quote and use thoughts from other people instead of there own words. " you mean people like the guy that ripped off the chain letter that got posted to start this thread?

I guess I can see thinking the guy is a D-bag, but what about the general message that the email portrays? Im looking at the message rather than just the messenger.

Yeah it's too bad we didn't have the most powerful military in the world back in 2001 or else the attacks could have been avoided.... wait... what???

Yup. It has been discussed in most of the write-ups about this letter. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/valuedemployees.asp

Tell that to the families of those who passed during 9/11.

AND THATS THE GAME!!!!!!! Best answer Very well said as I stated before it is up to the shooter to determine their limits

got ya.. i do know in other states you do have to obtain a tag from the local DEC for finding a deer with horns when you plan on taking the head. Im not 100% sure if taking them without reporting them is legal, myself personally would still call and ask. I do know when guys find deer dead they cut the head and take it with them but whos to say that you shot that buck, didint find it in time, the meat went bad but you find the rack and take it with out tagging it. not saying thats what you did but im sure it happens so i would think DEC would want to be notified of an untagged deer head being transported. JMO

No, just crying tax payers bitching about the cost of the robots.

I think that eventually we will all be in that situation but I still have a few years of pretending I'm tarzan aaaaghhhhhh AAGGGGGHHHH!!!

It'll have no effect on fawn recruitment!!! Obviously, the dead bucks in all of the harvest photos won't be doing any breeding in a few weeks but there will be plenty of bucks left to get the job done.

F117 is a strike bomber while the F22 is a fighter. F117 can't get into a dog fight. Our air and naval surperiority is the main reason why only so many of our troops have died in combat. It has gotten to the point that once the death toll had reached 5000 people were calling an outrage. Think back to WW2 and Vietnam. 5000 troops getting killed in combat would be considered a good month. If we didn't have such a clear advantage of the sea and sky, the death toll would be 10 times higher.

Salt and mineral blocks arent the only things that are illegal. No bait period, that means no corn piles, no apples, no Cmere Deer, etc.

You get the crap colored star for the Post Of The Day. Congrats? Edited out of respect for the site & mods.

Hey Doc..Tons of funny stuff here in this thread (not your post but the entire thread) I'm sure is eye opening to you and others. What is your max range, if you have one on deer. I know maybe you'll stretch it a bit at times but where do you "draw the line"? Me, approx. 23 yards is my max. I really look for the 3-5 yard shot but inside of 17-18 yards I'm most confident.

I'm beginning to understand why gun hunters wonder why we need a special season for bowhunting. If it is becoming an accepted notion that a bow is a weapon that is effective at 50 yards and beyond, of course they have to question why we are given such a huge amount of prime time that is denied to them. Maybe technology has come to the point where it no longer makes sense to separate out bowhunting from other forms of deer hunting.

Anglers continue to catch walleyes from shore on Oneida Lake by casting stickbaits. CNY FISHING FORECAST Just a reminder that the new fishing license year started Oct. 1. There’s also some new regulations that have kicked in. For more, see the DEC’s 2012-13 Freshwater Fishing Guide. Bait stores (list and map). LAKE ONTARIO As more salmon make their way into the tributaries, the lake fishing continues to wind down. There are still salmon being taken at the mouths of rivers, but getting out with the strong winds we’ve had lately has been difficult. SALMON RIVER Chinook/coho salmon runs continue to be strong. Steelhead are also starting to come in. The lower fly fishing section is closed until Oct. 31. The upper fly section is open. OSWEGO RIVER There are salmon throughout the river, along with a few brown trout and a few steelhead. Water is low. Remember the bridge to Leto Island is closed, and there are new Mandatory Personal Flotation Device (PFD) zones on the river below Varick Dam. ONEIDA LAKE Anglers fishing casting from shore at night continue to pick up fish. Anglers are catching them on stickbaits, such as the Challenger Junior Minnow and Storm Junior ThunderStick. Lots of small perch are still being taken with fathead minnows along weed lines, and a few larger ones as well. CAYUGA LAKE Trout and salmon fishing continues to be slow. Fishing 80 to 110 feet down with flasher and flies was producing a few lake trout, as was vertical jigging in 80 to 100 feet of water. Bass fishing has been good on the north end with a variety of plastic baits working. SENECA LAKE Trout and salmon fishing continues to be slow. A few lake trout are hitting Spin Doctors and flies fished 70 to 90 feet down. Yellow perch fishing remains good, with fish being caught on the south end, and by the salt plant. OWASCO LAKE Continued reports of “lots of perch and bass” being caught on crayfish and fathead minnows. One guy landed a largemouth bass weighing nearly 8 pounds, according to one bait shop owner. OTISCO LAKE Fishing has been slow lately. Nothing new to report. SKANEATELES LAKE Bass fishing slowed down some last week, but some are still being caught along the shore with tube jigs, drop-shot rigs and spinnerbaits. Yellow perch and rock bass are also biting on the south end with small minnows or jigs working. There is no trout activity to report. SODUS BAY Yellow perch are being caught in deep water on small minnows. Northern pike are hitting on spoons and large spinners. Bass fishing continues to be good with spinnerbaits and a variety of plastics working. Salmon are also being taken off the pier by anglers casting spoons. The low water is making launching boats difficult for some. WHITNEY POINT RESERVOIR The reservoir level continues to be drawn down to allow the Army Corps of Engineers to do needed work. It’s hard for anglers to get larger boats in and out. Fishing from a kayak, canoe or a jon boat is still the way to go, though some bigger boats are being successfully launched at Dorchester Park. Bring boots, advised one bait store owner. View the full article on The Syracuse Outdoors Blog

ya well i just started so i guess i quallify for that but o wont be doin it any more..... LOL

Maybe you should take the pic and show it to DEC...

Minors.....no Illegals...yes Capable adults...yes

O.K..let me get this straight if I shoot a recurve...i should shoot only 20 yards???? if i shoot a new Hoyt...carbon arrows...mechanical broadheads...I should only shoot 20yards???? thats like saying my flintlock should only be used out to 50 yards, so my new inline T/C 50cal with a scope should only be used out to 50 yards.....ethics....or just stuck in 1950's we went from 2x4's nailed to a tree to climbers that almost climb themself..... Ethics comes down to NOT doing something out side of your limits I would rather take a 50yard shot at a deer eating in a feild...before a 10 yard head on shot Phade good for you...you killed one hell of a buck...then you turned around and helped a fellow bowhunter put one on the ground.....that is what this sport needs

Still illegal to have one out prior to the season also

You can stop giving advice on something you know NOTHING about. You watch too much TV.............

Is that a salt like in the center of the photo?

i had the same problem a few years back so i enhanced the trail cam pic's i had of the 2 guys and printed up posted signs with their faces on them. Posted them all along my property. a week later the ones along the road were all misisng. i haven't had too much trouble since then.

You updated your phone? If so it happened to me. When I updated to io6 I lost you tube and couldn't open any videos. You need to probably get YouTube back on your phone through your apps

Where i hunt, i cant see in the farmers daughters bedroom from the ground so i use my climber.

sure they do WNY.all ya gotta do is BELIEVE, apparently the lack of evidence DOES mean that they exist.............................. so therefore I continue my hunt for the elusive antlered mouse..................think my 338 lapua will take him down?

They actually slaughter wallruss for this bone its very valuable.

Yep.

Isn't this a topic about grunting in a buck in early October & not about criticizing an individual for setting his own limitations?

I'm putting on pounds just reading this!!!lol

I think its worth mentioning that I have acquintences/friends that always talk about how great hunting is. When I finally decided that I wanted to give it shot, I had very little actual help from all of those that encouraged me to try it, with a few exceptions. Frankly, I thought it was strange that those who talk so highly of the sport didn't seem excited to help out a new guy. Most seemed like I was invading their turf and were way too secretive (like they wanted all of the deer for themselves). I have a few other hobbies where if someone mentioned an interest to me, I would do whatever I could to encourage and guide them. A week ago, I did not know phade AT ALL. He responded to my post on this site seeking advice and was more than helpful than I really could ask of a stranger. He spent over 3 hours walking the property with me, teaching me signs to look for and where best to set up based on those signs and wind. He even helped me set up a blind and then left to help another hunter. I can't thank him enough. I learned more in my emails with him (and his are detailed) and that three hour walk, than all the numerous hours I spent researching. Then, I call him excited about my first shot on a deer and his response was "I'll be right there, sit tight and don't take another doe ... if a buck comes by and you want to, shoot him." He went way out of his way to help me track the deer. Phade is a huge credit to this sport and forum. He is selfless and walks the walk. People like him are what will cause this sport to grow. Don't want to sound like I am gushing over him, but he really went above and beyond. Thanks Phade. I hope I can return the numerous favors in some way. If you really want this sport to grow in numbers instead of declining, take a page from Phade's book. I am sure there are others on the forum like him, but phade's actions speak for themselves. I hope I mature in this sport to the point where I can do the same for some other novice hunters.

For me, the challenge of bowhunting is the fact that I have to get close. That's what I got into bowhunting for was to take on the challenge of a short-range weapon for hunting. Maybe I'm in the minority on that these days. But I think I'm much more impressed with a bowhunter that gets his deer at 10 or 15 yards than some guy who had to "settle" for a 50 yard shot.

And once again, I will drag out my old story about a work-aquaintance who could consistantly hold a coffee cup sized group on the archery range but had the most unbelievable record for wounded and lost deer. 5 different deer wounded and lost in one season. Why? .... because be was over-impressed with his target range success and tried to transfer all that over into hunting season. I don't know why people can't accept that a bow is a short-range weapon. Yes sometimes people get lucky and shoot a deer at some ridiculous distances. That does not mean that it was a smart shot regardless of your abilities at stationary targets in controlled archery range conditions. It just means that if you shoot enough arrows, sometimes you will get lucky.

Could it be done? Yes. Should it be done depends on your ability to live with the end result which could be less than desireable. There seems to be a lot of hunters who can live with the less than desireable result as there are a lot of dead deer laying around the woods after the season. I for one would not shoot beyond 30 yrds as the further out you get the more uncontrolable the situation becomes. Better to hone your woodsman skills and get the xtra 20 yrds you need to make an ethical shot. But even a blind squill finds a nut once in a while though!

Congrats to all the successful hunters. I'm a little envious of the nice bucks on the ground already but the season is still young. Dave- the cut a rage 2 blade is unmistakable apparently. I was using 125s with the cut on contact tip.

I have one 12 foot two man stand. I use it some but mostly ground blinds I have around the property. Just more comfy in a chair on the ground not all strapped in. Plus I have fallen off bar stools higher than my chair. And better in bad weather.

The old man scored his heaviest deer in 47 seasons.... this freaky looking buck dressed out at 179lbs. Spike is 10" long.... exit wound up. I havent put my hands on it yet, ill be sure to get some better pics up.

I find carrying a bow to be very awkward in comparison to a gun. NO way will I walk with a knocked arrow. I walked up on a buck two years ago and had plenty of time to knock an arrow. Just way too easy to trip when walking in the woods and I don't think it would be very hard at all to get stabbed with that broadhead if you were to go down. I for one would feel a lot more safe walking with a loaded gun with the safety on in comparison.

I did it the easy way . I bought a couple of braided wrist slings for $5 each ............