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Not dinner but road trip snack for daughter and I. Headed to Boston ,MA for international ballet competition ( her not I ) Sweet n hot venison jerky

Having a soon to be 1 year old, this topic really got me thinking. So I'm doing some research and here's the main highlights of what I've found. Of course do your own research don't just take my word for it. This is not a debate this is my research and my opinion on it. Take it for what it's worth. "And the result is that there is a mildly elevated level of lead in the blood of the sampled population. Lead levels ranged from no detectable levels to 9.82 micrograms per deciliter (CDC guidelines say that lead levels above 10 micrograms per deciliter of blood can cause physical and cognitive problems). The North Dakota health department issued this dire warning based on the study:" http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/whitet... This is a better article that dives deeper into the a different study and finds "Ingesting lead particles in game meat is not the most important source of lead exposure to humans,” "those who consumed game meat had only 0.3 micrograms per deciliter higher PbB than did those who had not consumed game meat." The most significant finding here for me was that "Using radiography, researchers detected lead in tissue samples, as much as 18 inches away from the exit wound, and noted that most of the particles were too small to see or feel." A couple of shots and you've potentially contaminated the entire Deer. But I can easily see the lead traveling easier through the body cavity than through the actual muscle. So we need to study how the lead is traveling in order to understand what parts of the Deer are being contaminated. The white paper from the Wisconsin study is probably the most useful research I've found. However the study was significantly flawed. 183 packages from at most no more than a dozen deer is not a large enough sample size. Granted they came from 6 different butchers but even if they were spread as far apart as possible across the state, it is not a large enough sample size. Even when you add the 114 samples from "hunters" they were people involved in the study and probably geographically located close to each other. If you read the findings not just the study summary you find that between 8-15% of the samples tested positive for lead with averages between 1.8-2.4 mg/kg. The question becomes is that a hazardous or risky amount? It's important to convert that to the proper measurement. That's 1800-2400 micrograms (mcg)/kg. Now I'm not sure how to convert Kg to L when taking into account that we are talking about muscle. So for my analysis I'm using the conversion of water which is 1:1. Therefore this converts to 180 mcg/dl. Well above the CDC amount of 10 mcg/dl. Right there a major flag should be going up. That's very bad!!! Let's look at the math another way to try and validate the study. I shoot 1 oz. shotgun slugs. That's 437 grains. Let's take the assumption on the high end in that most rifle slugs (Deer in this study were shot with rifles) are 200 grains or about half an oz. The Wisconsin study used samples sizes of 1/4 lbs. There are 14175 mg in half an ounce. That is .013% of each bullet per 1/4 lbs sample. Now lets make the assumption that accounting for bone, hide, blood, and guts the average Deer (without those) weighs 100 lbs. That is about 47 lbs of meat harvested. Now given the average Deer size and a perfect kill zone (heart and lung) shot about half the meat is within 18" diameter. That is 23.5 lbs. Scale that to the sample size it is 94 samples. Multiply 94 samples times .013% that is 1.22%. That means that 98.78% of a bullet is in the removed parts of the Deer and/or exits the Deer. To me that is pretty realistic. But wait only 8-15% of the samples were contaminated. Using 15% that is 14.1 samples. That's only 0.182% of the bullet leaving 99.82% of the bullet in the removed parts of the Deer and/or exits the Deer. That is even more realistic. One part of the study that raised my eyebrows was table 2 on page 5 (9 of the PDF). I'm not going to repeat it but it has to do with their predicted lead concentration in children that consume venison shot with lead bullets. Their predictions don't match reality. People have been hunting with lead bullets and consuming the meat as a staple of their diet for hundreds of years. Given their predictions we would have killed ourselves or at least all have been poisoned a long time ago. Point, if this were true we would have seen the effects a long time ago and this would have been a much larger issue than it is today, a long time ago. This also does not align with the North Dakota study that found only a 0.3 mcg/dl higher rate in the blood of those that eat game meat. Let's keep going. There was no control study done. It wouldn't be hard to take some road kill Deer from across the state and perform lead testing. What if the bullets aren't causing the lead to be in the tissue? Or what if it's not the bullet that they are being shot with causing the contamination? No data was recorded as to what type of bullet they were shot with. What if we change the material of the bullet but without accounting for the actual ballistics we cause an even worse problem? What if it is modern bullets that cause the contamination? Take for example plastic bullets. What if they deposit other chemicals into our meat. Reality check for a moment. I've been eating venison as a staple in my diet for my entire life. My wife since just before we got married (so 7 years). When my wife became pregnant (a year and half ago now) we were tested and both of us had an undetectable amount. As did our daughter when she was born. So what does that say about all this? If this is such a problem why are we not seeing it? The CDC reports over the last 10 years that the number of children <72 months old that tested positive for lead levels above the 10 mcg/dl is less than 1%. That is down from 8% 20 years ago. That is a significant decline. Now the number of children tested has risen. So there is argument that prior to 10 years ago there was a flaw in the sample or data collected not being representative of the true population. Hunting has also declined over the last 20 years. Although the last 10 years includes a recession where hunting numbers actually increased slightly yet there is no corresponding correlation in the number of children that tested positive. Another aspect though is how many people feed their children venison. I'm probably among the minority that feeds my <1 year old venison. But I know a lot of people that feed it to >2 year old's. Now depending on what source you use, hunting hovers just above 10% of the US population. So what needs to be looked at is the correlation between children that test positive and parents that hunt and feed them what they shoot. Not having a study on this correlation I'm going to go with my gut and logical thinking and say there isn't one. If there was I would think it would stick out like a sore thumb especially given such a decline in the amount of children testing positive. Here's the logical thinking. The US population is about 323M. 10% hunt that that's 32M. Now I found conflicting information for the next part. Some sources say 74% of Americans have children. Others say there are 74M children in the US. That's only about 30%. So for this I'll error on the side of caution and go with the lower 30%. That's 10M hunters have children. There are about 4M children born each year and we'll go with an average of 3M tested for lead. Now granted that is not saying that 3M newborns are tested. Some children are tested multiple times in their lives and others are never tested. It also does not give the ages children are tested at. Therefore I think a safe assumption is that in general the testing occurs near birth or at least less than 2 years of age. This is the age that above I said were probably not eating game meat. Therefore there is argument that the CDC's results are not meaningful in this discussion. But let's say for a second it is, and that there is some kind of unknown correlation between children that eat game meat and those that test positive. For this I actually went to the data on the CDC's site and went back to 1997. There were 109M children tested and 1.79% tested positive. If there is a correlation we'll say for arguments sake that half of those were children that ate game meat. That means that just shy of 976,000 children tested positive as a result of eating game meat. Now remember we said above there are at least 10M children that are families of hunters. That's about 1% are testing positive. And that is using the assumption that there is a correlation. How can there be a correlation if it's not significantly higher than the population average? Therefore I conclude that there is no correlation between eating game meat and testing positive for lead. So what are the take ways from this? First I'm going to be doing my own studies. I have I think five different Deer in my freezer right now. There are ways you can test your food for lead. A little bit of Google searching and I came up with several different methods. http://www.home-health-chemistry.com/Lead-Detectio... I'm going to stop feeding my baby venison until I do my own testing any maybe until I get some Deer shot with non-lead ammo. Do I think this is a cause for panic? Absolutely not. We've been eating food shot with lead bullets for hundreds of years. But we also used to put lead in paint and pipes. We learn from our mistakes (or at least those with lower lead levels do). I think we need to push our federal government for a comprehensive study on the use of lead bullets. We as consumers need to begin to press manufactures to begin exploring alternatives. What we don't need is government regulation. We need to let the market sort this out. The government should provide the studies and resources for the market to react to. If those studies and resources determine a real problem then let the market find the solution. That is how true innovation works. The market as a whole has significantly more resources to explore alternatives. People as a whole will educate themselves and choose the best bullet. It may not be a one size fits all solution. Very similar to what we are doing with wind and solar energy. That my friends is what we are about here at Hunting Tactical. New technology, new innovation, and improving Hunting.

If Trump becomes President He won't be bowing to the Foreigners like the wuss King Barack does !

Obama & Hillary are already a Joke. Obama is viewed as a weakling by the world. Trump does have the left and there overseas supporters scared. The Joke is Hillary and 4 more of Obama leadership. Trump seems to be pissing off all the right people lately. I would Take Trump over Hillary that's no Joke.

Another nice find this morning. The antlers sure stick out on a dark day.

Spent just an hour yesterday. Big one first, looked over to my right and there laid the small one. Flash; lighting strikes in the same spot three times..

March never fails to produce for us, and this video proves it, as we call in a weary dark female.

Safe levels of lead exposure would be those your body can tolerate and overcome with regeneration. Those levels do exist, so there are known levels of exposure that are safe.

Many other countries are on board with the "New World Order" agenda and side with the Progressive Left in America and it's desire to move America in that direction. One of their tactics often used to try and minimize their opposition, is character assassination and ridicule, utilized to keep their followers believing they are superior. Those countries that say they believe Trump is a joke are lying. They are not laughing at his popularity. They fear it more than anything they have ever encountered before.

This brings up an interesting discussion: I have boxes of metal parts that I've accumulated over the last forty years that could be easily turned into guns. I also have the know-how and the tools to do so. A good friend of mine was a US military armorer in the late 60's and 70's and has a full gunsmithing shop in his garage. Short of drilling a rifled barrel, there is nothing gun-related he can't do, or a part he can't make. He still tinkers with guns, but he spends most of his time voluntarily working with mentally retarded children. When will the gun discussion in NYS turn from the guns themselves, and various 'parts' of guns, to the 'knowledge' of guns? If the aim is to eliminate guns entirely, and I'm certain that is in fact the aim, will they come after people with knowledge of guns? Will WildcatJunkie be considered a threat because of his knowledge, regardless of political position? Serious question.

I thought you said Rob's evidence was good. now it's not definitive? added with mine too? what if someone went on the MidwayUsa site averaged ALL the cost per round of lead hunting ammo and then averaged non-lead hunting ammo? Don't expect me to do this. I already have a good idea what the answer will be, and you can't afford my rates. for others like damaging guns you seemed to ignore evidence that's qualitative and not quantitative. you're treating much of it as inadmissible when in fact it wouldn't be. not quite sure what your roll is but you seem to be playing judge, jury, and prosecutor. I've got more evidence for you for the first one... my wife ate venison before, throughout, and after pregnancy. she breast fed. 2/3 of that venison has been from deer harvested with a gun and ammunition with lead. everyone in the household eats it including my daughter even before she had teeth. it makes up probably 90+% of your diet for meat. haven't gotten a single pediatric blood test back saying any blood lead levels were anything other than negligible. it should also be noted that I participate in mostly indoor pistol competitions, including clean up where lead bullets are used exclusively. while I take measures to prevent health risks and unnecessary exposure to it, I do not see its responsible use a grave concern. I find it hard to believe anyone here cannot honestly acknowledge it's probably a good thing to move more and more away from using lead ammunition. Also, an outright ban on lead and exclusive use of non-lead ammo is just not feasible or good for sportsmen in general.

My target gun has to be assembled for competition, generally held in a public venue, so I had to make the gun legal. Boxes of gun parts, on the other hand, are not illegal until they're assembled into an operational firearm. I'm doing nothing illegal.

Nice!!! One nice young deadhead today...

Saw an opportunity, and took it. Who else is using it? X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

He whines to have the political section eliminated ( because most of the opinions are on the conservative side) when that fails he joins in on the political conversations and labels opinions that don't fall in line with his own as…….."racist, bigoted, sexist, anti ….what ever , based solely on the fact that those opinions are different from his…..Pretty sad….

My neighbor found these behind the camp. He has found 5 sheds so far just one matching set.

I feel a sense of fear of authority is also being inculcated.

I see all of these "assault weapon" laws as illegal force used against otherwise law abiding people to coerce compliance with a desire by the government to control thinking. It's preventative law. They are criminalizing citizen's they believe have the capability to commit "gun violence", even if it is a statistically remote possibility. To me, that is why these laws are completely unconstitutional and illegal. If that line of thinking escapes you, look at it this way. People often claim rights can be infringed upon for the safety of the public. An often cited example is not being able to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater. A restriction on 1st Amendment Free Speech rights to be sure. But every person in the theater possesses the ability to yell that word. It is only a crime that can be punished if they do use the ability to do harm. How then is it not an unconstitutional restriction on 2nd Amendment rights to deny mere possession of any commonly possessed firearm? How can the Supreme Court find such a restriction to be legal? In a country that follows the US Constitution and the Rule of Law, it cannot. But in a land where politicians have the desire to expand their power and bend the Rule of Law, to see it as malleable, flexible, and even corruptible when it suits their desires, with the assistance of activist judges and courts that exist via executive appointment to serve the will of the government, and not the people, it happens all too frequently. In all actuality, the founding fathers and those who wrote the US Constitution, with a desire to prevent the usurpation of power outlined above, would be shooting by now. Rights and freedoms are quickly disappearing from America because people are not willing to stand up to the tyranny. Once they have been voluntarily relinquished, they can never be regained. Our 2nd Amendment rights are merely the first casualty in a self imposed, self justified, loosing battle. God help our descendants!

Fine by me. Don't let Belo hear ya! He might play the racist card.

Why should we care what other countries think. We are the best country in the world. Is it still ok to say that?

Copied off the boxes of three different ammo manufacturers I have on the shelf, in the fine print of course. From the horse's mouth! 1." Winchester Xpert Hi-Velocity Steel shot, Use only in firearms designed for steel shot that are in good condition with markings exactly matching ammunition!" 2." Kent Fasteel Precision Steel, Potential barrel damage may occur when using steel shot in some guns. If no information exists that can confirm your guns ability to shoot steel shot do not use it!" 3. "Federal Speed Shok Steel, The use of steel shot can cause damage in some guns, our protective shot cup is designed to prevent or minimize this tendency, but we will accept no responsibility for such barrel damage resulting from the use of these shells!"

It's not about "staying illegal". There is little sense in chasing the whims of the State lawmakers with regard to 'compliance'. The only one I did 'bend' on was my 10/22 target gun because I take it to public events. I had to swap out the thumb-hole stock.

Keep reading..........."and have harmful health effects even at lower levels, and there is no known safe exposure level."

Shawnhu....I certainly know of it but don't know much about it. Please explain how it is used and what you're hoping to get out of it.

I had purchase a Weston Burger press and a couple packets of Con Yeager Sweet Onion Burger Seasoning from the Field and Stream store . Defrosted 4 pounds of venison burger . and mixed the seasoning in real good . Ended up with 14 burgers . I vacuum sealed them 2 to a bag except for one that was single . . I ate the other one . DELICIOUS ! My wife can't eat them as she cannot have Gluten so unfortunately I have to eat them all myself !

Alone. I hope they bring it back. Really enjoyed it.

I don't think there is much street cred in noting that Ethan Allen accomplishment on a site like this. I also don't think she was the only one who picked the furniture, lol.

Found the match to my other side from January finally! I was floored where I found it, literally 10' from where I have walked at least 5 times. Goes to show how even a trained eye can miss them.

Another deadhead from today. Would've been pretty neat looking if his screwed up left antler wasn't eaten. Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

As much as we complain about NY State and all the "downers" here, spending time like makes it worth staying. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Just finished this guy up and delivered him back to by buddy at work...

Back to work in the morning.I have enjoyed my time off got many things done around the house,a few projects left undone otherwise a very productive time off.This has been the shortest layoff just a little over 2 months Sure will be nice to be back on the job.

Key Points CDC lowered the recommended blood lead action level for lead exposure in children to10 µg/dL in 1991. States may have their own levels of concern for adults and children. Most states have reporting systems for lead poisoning. OSHA has set required standards for the amount of lead allowed in workroom air at 50 µg/m3 averaged over an 8-hour workday. EPA has set a standard for lead in the ambient air of 0.15 µg/m3 averaged over a calendar quarter. EPA has established 400 ppm for lead in bare soils in play areas and 1200 ppm for non-play areas for federally funded projects. This may be used as a guidance level elsewhere. EPA's action level for lead in water delivered to users of public drinking water systems is 15 µg/L. Its goal for lead is zero. FDA has set various action levels regarding lead in food items. Use of lead-soldered food cans is now banned. Today, paint intended for residential use is limited to 0.06% lead content.

What pt0217 said. Al

Knowledge of firearms. I'm not going to edit the post.

Timber stand improvement and preparing foods plots. Always preparing for future hunts.

It doesn't matter where the debate is as long as people are reading it. Make intelligent and informed choices.

Precisely why it's not worth spending the energy worrying. Most folk don't seem to give a damn anymore.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Since my original post I was away soaking in the sun on the golf courses of Myrtle Beach and why I haven't responded. I enjoyed reading your varying responses. I'll address them best I can: #1. I enjoy hunting no matter where I can hunt. NY just so happens to have Sunday hunting. Something Pa needs to change. And, I'm in Potter Co. (Pa) at the same time for our bear season when your rifle season starts. With that said, hunting public land in Pa during rifle season is no picnic either but after 34 years of doing so, I have a pretty good idea on how to get it done. I'm not at all discouraged by the "Orange Army". IMO, a hunt on Sunday after the opener will require some pressure to get the game moving anyway. I(we) might as well join the party. #2. I scout anywhere I hunt whether it's by using the PC to view maps or boots on the ground. I'll be scouting Cattaraugus Co. public land in April for at least a day. I've already pre-scouted by viewing maps. #3. I'm glad to hear driving is allowed. Here in Pa, we drive for Bear. It's the best way to get them moving. We also take one day during the second week of deer rifle season for drives. We are a methodical group who "silently" slip through the woods pushing deer or bear by using the wind to our advantage. The only time you will hear us is if we get into heavy cover where safety is priority number one. Then it's an occasional hoot or holler so we can locate one another and stay in line. Drives often benefit other hunters as well. Inevitably, every year stand hunters not in our group shoot deer we push out of the drives. (Perfect example): The last buck I shot was while we were setting up a drive. I was a stander and while walking in to my spot a group of Amish came through doing a drive. They walked past us (standers) and continued toward our drivers. They were no sooner out of sight when a half rack six point came slipping back through and I dropped him. Our drivers then came through and pushed some doe past another stander who killed one. Those two drives in opposite directions had deer running all over the place. Not the safest thing in the world but if everyone is mindful of their safety, there aren't any issues. #4. I'm glad someone brought it up. Baiting is only allowed in our special regulation areas (around Philly and Pitt). We had not intentions of baiting but I'm glad someone let us know it's illegal. As well as the communication law, we also have that in Pa. Both are non-issues for our group. Again thanks for the feedback.

She is cute

No, she is wearing my beanie, not the one for sale. I kept one for myself. X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Good score..........so, you're getting pretty deep into reloading huh? Good times...if ONLY I could shoot in my own backyard

Sold. Lock it up! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All that says is what every other survey of the sorts say. People don't like change. There was a time when people insisted the world was flat too. Bet you would have had similar survey results back then. I will say that I do oppose a ban on lead ammunition. Especially before a viable market alternative has been proven.

The season is almost over. Golden eagles are migrating. One site that is still operating has a bunch of birds feeding, including 2 we telemetered. This photo is the only one we have ever gotten 3 at one photo in NYS. They usually wait until another leaves. I really like the photo of the eagle chasing the coyote.

It sure looks like the guy behind the smiling protester is standing on the flag . I also believe someone posting on this thread is arguing just for the sake of arguing !

I grew up with a lake within a short bike ride. Got hunting property by a lake. Tow the bass boat to many different lakes. Kissed my wife for the very first time by a lake. Some of my ashes will be scattered in a lake. Guess you could say, lakes have been and always will be, a part of who I am.

I don't trust the CDC on this issue since it's well known they are anti-gun and want to put "gun violence" on their list of "diseases". They don't think gang violence is a disease though. As far as cost of copper ammo, it's all an expense to me, since I long ago stocked up on enough ammo, for all of my firearms, to last me until I die. Doves are dying by the thousands? I have never found a dead one that wasn't shot. Where do they go to die? I'll use Barnes bullets when I need better terminal performance, otherwise I'm not worried. Usually crows or coyote get the gut piles I leave behind.

I took the puppy out for a few hours today... #8 was easy to spot out in the open: #9 was an oldie buried in the beanfield: