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  1. Not dinner but road trip snack for daughter and I. Headed to Boston ,MA for international ballet competition ( her not I ) Sweet n hot venison jerky
    7 points
  2. Having a soon to be 1 year old, this topic really got me thinking. So I'm doing some research and here's the main highlights of what I've found. Of course do your own research don't just take my word for it. This is not a debate this is my research and my opinion on it. Take it for what it's worth. "And the result is that there is a mildly elevated level of lead in the blood of the sampled population. Lead levels ranged from no detectable levels to 9.82 micrograms per deciliter (CDC guidelines say that lead levels above 10 micrograms per deciliter of blood can cause physical and cognitive problems). The North Dakota health department issued this dire warning based on the study:" http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/whitet... This is a better article that dives deeper into the a different study and finds "Ingesting lead particles in game meat is not the most important source of lead exposure to humans,” "those who consumed game meat had only 0.3 micrograms per deciliter higher PbB than did those who had not consumed game meat." The most significant finding here for me was that "Using radiography, researchers detected lead in tissue samples, as much as 18 inches away from the exit wound, and noted that most of the particles were too small to see or feel." A couple of shots and you've potentially contaminated the entire Deer. But I can easily see the lead traveling easier through the body cavity than through the actual muscle. So we need to study how the lead is traveling in order to understand what parts of the Deer are being contaminated. The white paper from the Wisconsin study is probably the most useful research I've found. However the study was significantly flawed. 183 packages from at most no more than a dozen deer is not a large enough sample size. Granted they came from 6 different butchers but even if they were spread as far apart as possible across the state, it is not a large enough sample size. Even when you add the 114 samples from "hunters" they were people involved in the study and probably geographically located close to each other. If you read the findings not just the study summary you find that between 8-15% of the samples tested positive for lead with averages between 1.8-2.4 mg/kg. The question becomes is that a hazardous or risky amount? It's important to convert that to the proper measurement. That's 1800-2400 micrograms (mcg)/kg. Now I'm not sure how to convert Kg to L when taking into account that we are talking about muscle. So for my analysis I'm using the conversion of water which is 1:1. Therefore this converts to 180 mcg/dl. Well above the CDC amount of 10 mcg/dl. Right there a major flag should be going up. That's very bad!!! Let's look at the math another way to try and validate the study. I shoot 1 oz. shotgun slugs. That's 437 grains. Let's take the assumption on the high end in that most rifle slugs (Deer in this study were shot with rifles) are 200 grains or about half an oz. The Wisconsin study used samples sizes of 1/4 lbs. There are 14175 mg in half an ounce. That is .013% of each bullet per 1/4 lbs sample. Now lets make the assumption that accounting for bone, hide, blood, and guts the average Deer (without those) weighs 100 lbs. That is about 47 lbs of meat harvested. Now given the average Deer size and a perfect kill zone (heart and lung) shot about half the meat is within 18" diameter. That is 23.5 lbs. Scale that to the sample size it is 94 samples. Multiply 94 samples times .013% that is 1.22%. That means that 98.78% of a bullet is in the removed parts of the Deer and/or exits the Deer. To me that is pretty realistic. But wait only 8-15% of the samples were contaminated. Using 15% that is 14.1 samples. That's only 0.182% of the bullet leaving 99.82% of the bullet in the removed parts of the Deer and/or exits the Deer. That is even more realistic. One part of the study that raised my eyebrows was table 2 on page 5 (9 of the PDF). I'm not going to repeat it but it has to do with their predicted lead concentration in children that consume venison shot with lead bullets. Their predictions don't match reality. People have been hunting with lead bullets and consuming the meat as a staple of their diet for hundreds of years. Given their predictions we would have killed ourselves or at least all have been poisoned a long time ago. Point, if this were true we would have seen the effects a long time ago and this would have been a much larger issue than it is today, a long time ago. This also does not align with the North Dakota study that found only a 0.3 mcg/dl higher rate in the blood of those that eat game meat. Let's keep going. There was no control study done. It wouldn't be hard to take some road kill Deer from across the state and perform lead testing. What if the bullets aren't causing the lead to be in the tissue? Or what if it's not the bullet that they are being shot with causing the contamination? No data was recorded as to what type of bullet they were shot with. What if we change the material of the bullet but without accounting for the actual ballistics we cause an even worse problem? What if it is modern bullets that cause the contamination? Take for example plastic bullets. What if they deposit other chemicals into our meat. Reality check for a moment. I've been eating venison as a staple in my diet for my entire life. My wife since just before we got married (so 7 years). When my wife became pregnant (a year and half ago now) we were tested and both of us had an undetectable amount. As did our daughter when she was born. So what does that say about all this? If this is such a problem why are we not seeing it? The CDC reports over the last 10 years that the number of children <72 months old that tested positive for lead levels above the 10 mcg/dl is less than 1%. That is down from 8% 20 years ago. That is a significant decline. Now the number of children tested has risen. So there is argument that prior to 10 years ago there was a flaw in the sample or data collected not being representative of the true population. Hunting has also declined over the last 20 years. Although the last 10 years includes a recession where hunting numbers actually increased slightly yet there is no corresponding correlation in the number of children that tested positive. Another aspect though is how many people feed their children venison. I'm probably among the minority that feeds my <1 year old venison. But I know a lot of people that feed it to >2 year old's. Now depending on what source you use, hunting hovers just above 10% of the US population. So what needs to be looked at is the correlation between children that test positive and parents that hunt and feed them what they shoot. Not having a study on this correlation I'm going to go with my gut and logical thinking and say there isn't one. If there was I would think it would stick out like a sore thumb especially given such a decline in the amount of children testing positive. Here's the logical thinking. The US population is about 323M. 10% hunt that that's 32M. Now I found conflicting information for the next part. Some sources say 74% of Americans have children. Others say there are 74M children in the US. That's only about 30%. So for this I'll error on the side of caution and go with the lower 30%. That's 10M hunters have children. There are about 4M children born each year and we'll go with an average of 3M tested for lead. Now granted that is not saying that 3M newborns are tested. Some children are tested multiple times in their lives and others are never tested. It also does not give the ages children are tested at. Therefore I think a safe assumption is that in general the testing occurs near birth or at least less than 2 years of age. This is the age that above I said were probably not eating game meat. Therefore there is argument that the CDC's results are not meaningful in this discussion. But let's say for a second it is, and that there is some kind of unknown correlation between children that eat game meat and those that test positive. For this I actually went to the data on the CDC's site and went back to 1997. There were 109M children tested and 1.79% tested positive. If there is a correlation we'll say for arguments sake that half of those were children that ate game meat. That means that just shy of 976,000 children tested positive as a result of eating game meat. Now remember we said above there are at least 10M children that are families of hunters. That's about 1% are testing positive. And that is using the assumption that there is a correlation. How can there be a correlation if it's not significantly higher than the population average? Therefore I conclude that there is no correlation between eating game meat and testing positive for lead. So what are the take ways from this? First I'm going to be doing my own studies. I have I think five different Deer in my freezer right now. There are ways you can test your food for lead. A little bit of Google searching and I came up with several different methods. http://www.home-health-chemistry.com/Lead-Detectio... I'm going to stop feeding my baby venison until I do my own testing any maybe until I get some Deer shot with non-lead ammo. Do I think this is a cause for panic? Absolutely not. We've been eating food shot with lead bullets for hundreds of years. But we also used to put lead in paint and pipes. We learn from our mistakes (or at least those with lower lead levels do). I think we need to push our federal government for a comprehensive study on the use of lead bullets. We as consumers need to begin to press manufactures to begin exploring alternatives. What we don't need is government regulation. We need to let the market sort this out. The government should provide the studies and resources for the market to react to. If those studies and resources determine a real problem then let the market find the solution. That is how true innovation works. The market as a whole has significantly more resources to explore alternatives. People as a whole will educate themselves and choose the best bullet. It may not be a one size fits all solution. Very similar to what we are doing with wind and solar energy. That my friends is what we are about here at Hunting Tactical. New technology, new innovation, and improving Hunting.
    5 points
  3. If Trump becomes President He won't be bowing to the Foreigners like the wuss King Barack does !
    4 points
  4. Obama & Hillary are already a Joke. Obama is viewed as a weakling by the world. Trump does have the left and there overseas supporters scared. The Joke is Hillary and 4 more of Obama leadership. Trump seems to be pissing off all the right people lately. I would Take Trump over Hillary that's no Joke.
    4 points
  5. Another nice find this morning. The antlers sure stick out on a dark day.
    4 points
  6. Spent just an hour yesterday. Big one first, looked over to my right and there laid the small one. Flash; lighting strikes in the same spot three times..
    4 points
  7. March never fails to produce for us, and this video proves it, as we call in a weary dark female.
    3 points
  8. Safe levels of lead exposure would be those your body can tolerate and overcome with regeneration. Those levels do exist, so there are known levels of exposure that are safe.
    3 points
  9. Many other countries are on board with the "New World Order" agenda and side with the Progressive Left in America and it's desire to move America in that direction. One of their tactics often used to try and minimize their opposition, is character assassination and ridicule, utilized to keep their followers believing they are superior. Those countries that say they believe Trump is a joke are lying. They are not laughing at his popularity. They fear it more than anything they have ever encountered before.
    3 points
  10. This brings up an interesting discussion: I have boxes of metal parts that I've accumulated over the last forty years that could be easily turned into guns. I also have the know-how and the tools to do so. A good friend of mine was a US military armorer in the late 60's and 70's and has a full gunsmithing shop in his garage. Short of drilling a rifled barrel, there is nothing gun-related he can't do, or a part he can't make. He still tinkers with guns, but he spends most of his time voluntarily working with mentally retarded children. When will the gun discussion in NYS turn from the guns themselves, and various 'parts' of guns, to the 'knowledge' of guns? If the aim is to eliminate guns entirely, and I'm certain that is in fact the aim, will they come after people with knowledge of guns? Will WildcatJunkie be considered a threat because of his knowledge, regardless of political position? Serious question.
    3 points
  11. I thought you said Rob's evidence was good. now it's not definitive? added with mine too? what if someone went on the MidwayUsa site averaged ALL the cost per round of lead hunting ammo and then averaged non-lead hunting ammo? Don't expect me to do this. I already have a good idea what the answer will be, and you can't afford my rates. for others like damaging guns you seemed to ignore evidence that's qualitative and not quantitative. you're treating much of it as inadmissible when in fact it wouldn't be. not quite sure what your roll is but you seem to be playing judge, jury, and prosecutor. I've got more evidence for you for the first one... my wife ate venison before, throughout, and after pregnancy. she breast fed. 2/3 of that venison has been from deer harvested with a gun and ammunition with lead. everyone in the household eats it including my daughter even before she had teeth. it makes up probably 90+% of your diet for meat. haven't gotten a single pediatric blood test back saying any blood lead levels were anything other than negligible. it should also be noted that I participate in mostly indoor pistol competitions, including clean up where lead bullets are used exclusively. while I take measures to prevent health risks and unnecessary exposure to it, I do not see its responsible use a grave concern. I find it hard to believe anyone here cannot honestly acknowledge it's probably a good thing to move more and more away from using lead ammunition. Also, an outright ban on lead and exclusive use of non-lead ammo is just not feasible or good for sportsmen in general.
    3 points
  12. My target gun has to be assembled for competition, generally held in a public venue, so I had to make the gun legal. Boxes of gun parts, on the other hand, are not illegal until they're assembled into an operational firearm. I'm doing nothing illegal.
    3 points
  13. Nice!!! One nice young deadhead today...
    3 points
  14. Saw an opportunity, and took it. Who else is using it? X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems
    2 points
  15. He whines to have the political section eliminated ( because most of the opinions are on the conservative side) when that fails he joins in on the political conversations and labels opinions that don't fall in line with his own as…….."racist, bigoted, sexist, anti ….what ever , based solely on the fact that those opinions are different from his…..Pretty sad….
    2 points
  16. My neighbor found these behind the camp. He has found 5 sheds so far just one matching set.
    2 points
  17. I feel a sense of fear of authority is also being inculcated.
    2 points
  18. I see all of these "assault weapon" laws as illegal force used against otherwise law abiding people to coerce compliance with a desire by the government to control thinking. It's preventative law. They are criminalizing citizen's they believe have the capability to commit "gun violence", even if it is a statistically remote possibility. To me, that is why these laws are completely unconstitutional and illegal. If that line of thinking escapes you, look at it this way. People often claim rights can be infringed upon for the safety of the public. An often cited example is not being able to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater. A restriction on 1st Amendment Free Speech rights to be sure. But every person in the theater possesses the ability to yell that word. It is only a crime that can be punished if they do use the ability to do harm. How then is it not an unconstitutional restriction on 2nd Amendment rights to deny mere possession of any commonly possessed firearm? How can the Supreme Court find such a restriction to be legal? In a country that follows the US Constitution and the Rule of Law, it cannot. But in a land where politicians have the desire to expand their power and bend the Rule of Law, to see it as malleable, flexible, and even corruptible when it suits their desires, with the assistance of activist judges and courts that exist via executive appointment to serve the will of the government, and not the people, it happens all too frequently. In all actuality, the founding fathers and those who wrote the US Constitution, with a desire to prevent the usurpation of power outlined above, would be shooting by now. Rights and freedoms are quickly disappearing from America because people are not willing to stand up to the tyranny. Once they have been voluntarily relinquished, they can never be regained. Our 2nd Amendment rights are merely the first casualty in a self imposed, self justified, loosing battle. God help our descendants!
    2 points
  19. Fine by me. Don't let Belo hear ya! He might play the racist card.
    2 points
  20. Why should we care what other countries think. We are the best country in the world. Is it still ok to say that?
    2 points
  21. Copied off the boxes of three different ammo manufacturers I have on the shelf, in the fine print of course. From the horse's mouth! 1." Winchester Xpert Hi-Velocity Steel shot, Use only in firearms designed for steel shot that are in good condition with markings exactly matching ammunition!" 2." Kent Fasteel Precision Steel, Potential barrel damage may occur when using steel shot in some guns. If no information exists that can confirm your guns ability to shoot steel shot do not use it!" 3. "Federal Speed Shok Steel, The use of steel shot can cause damage in some guns, our protective shot cup is designed to prevent or minimize this tendency, but we will accept no responsibility for such barrel damage resulting from the use of these shells!"
    2 points
  22. It's not about "staying illegal". There is little sense in chasing the whims of the State lawmakers with regard to 'compliance'. The only one I did 'bend' on was my 10/22 target gun because I take it to public events. I had to swap out the thumb-hole stock.
    2 points
  23. Keep reading..........."and have harmful health effects even at lower levels, and there is no known safe exposure level."
    2 points
  24. Shawnhu....I certainly know of it but don't know much about it. Please explain how it is used and what you're hoping to get out of it.
    2 points
  25. I had purchase a Weston Burger press and a couple packets of Con Yeager Sweet Onion Burger Seasoning from the Field and Stream store . Defrosted 4 pounds of venison burger . and mixed the seasoning in real good . Ended up with 14 burgers . I vacuum sealed them 2 to a bag except for one that was single . . I ate the other one . DELICIOUS ! My wife can't eat them as she cannot have Gluten so unfortunately I have to eat them all myself !
    2 points
  26. Alone. I hope they bring it back. Really enjoyed it.
    2 points
  27. I don't think there is much street cred in noting that Ethan Allen accomplishment on a site like this. I also don't think she was the only one who picked the furniture, lol.
    2 points
  28. Found the match to my other side from January finally! I was floored where I found it, literally 10' from where I have walked at least 5 times. Goes to show how even a trained eye can miss them.
    2 points
  29. Another deadhead from today. Would've been pretty neat looking if his screwed up left antler wasn't eaten. Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    2 points
  30. As much as we complain about NY State and all the "downers" here, spending time like makes it worth staying. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
    2 points
  31. Dark horse Scotty Karate scotch ale 10 % abv. Yelling goat. Old hat for a Tuesday
    1 point
  32. Do you believe the US Dept of Labor is capable of determining what a "safe" level of exposure would be? https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10030
    1 point
  33. Take special note of the section titled "Work Place Air" http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=8 This is just one source. I have not the time to post more, though I wish I did and would like to.
    1 point
  34. Don't waste your time…. No matter what you show, somehow its racist, bigoted and somehow hateful anti…..fill in the blank.. Its what he has been taught...
    1 point
  35. This is an obviously radical extremist statement. If it were true ANY exposure, to ANY amount of lead would be fatal.
    1 point
  36. Breathable stocking foot for sure. You can wear long underwear of your choice under the breathables but the neoprene will make you drench with sweat once the water & outside temperatures warm. Stocking foot waders W/good quality wading boots will give you support while boot-foot waders will not. They could be downright dangerous in some situations. Felt soles W/carbide studs may be in order too. You can glue them on W/Barge cement. No need to go high dollar. Since the patents ran out on Gore-Tex, breathables have come way down in price. You do want double knees & built in gravel guards.
    1 point
  37. How can giving the power to the state police to regulate be constitutional?
    1 point
  38. Wait till everyone gets a letter saying turn your AR, thank you for your previous registration.
    1 point
  39. I found a few, Here is one you can start with. They used young pigs, 70 to 80 days old. Before the trial they were fed commercial feed which can contain lead, but they were still only 80 days old, and - the control pigs were also fed the same commercial feed.... Here is the link: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005330
    1 point
  40. Just build your own folks, detach stock for transportation.
    1 point
  41. Steve - You make some good points. Bullets are not the most significant source of lead for most people. They are a source and that is a good reason to be careful with your baby. This is about making better choices, not a ban on lead. I wish it had been routine to check children for lead when mine were young. Certainly, they got more from the paint in the old farmhouse than the 7/8oz Remington slugs I used to use. Slugs are less likely to fragment than bullets. Your venison is probably safer than that from the average deer killed in a rifle area. The talk about eating venison for hundreds of years is meaningless, even though it keeps coming up. Venison was not a significant part of anyone's diet in NYS from the end of the 19th to the middle of the 20th Century. The problem comes mostly from bullets in high-powered rifles, not slow black powder which was used to eliminate deer from the landscape during the 19th Century. Deer were rare before the 1950s so venison was not eaten much. Most developmental problems from eating lead are incremental. An IQ change of a few points would not be measurable or noticeable in an individual except for severe cases. Some things to think about: Road-kills (deer and other species) regularly contain bullets and shot. I know someone who has been checking. I don't have those data. Some were euthanized. Some were wounded and lived (woodchucks and raccoons esp.) . Apparently, some people use bird shot as deer repellent. It remains in their muscles after healing. Your 10 μg/dL level is either for adults, or obsolete. No one uses that number for children anymore. I know if I had to do it over again, my children would not eat venison killed with lead, even slugs. I am really curious how much lead my childless 36 year old daughter has in her bones. Venison probably accounted for 30-40% of the meat she ate before leaving home. I doubt she would allow me to check. She is very smart and excessively educated. How smart would she have been if....................................? Another thing to think about: It isn't just about human health. If you care about eagles, hawks, etc., the lead in the gut pile is your toxic legacy.
    1 point
  42. "Don't get sarcastic with me". LoL. Keep it up Rob, & you're headed to the office, mister.
    1 point
  43. Such a weird turn this thread has taken. How did a Trump topic become a Papist topic? Is there a severe case of boredom going on here, or simply a wish to say something bad about another member. Yeah, Papist seems to have some rather controversial views, but seriously, we seem to have headed down some weird road that could only be characterized as a personal vendetta. To sit here and argue over stomping or standing-on seems like a hellova strenuous attempt to simply be argumentative. I mean, it really seems kind of silly or malicious or just "strange".
    1 point
  44. At the bold part, are you serious? What? Am I back in school where I have to raise my hand too? Where's the bathroom pass? I have go #2 Mr. Rossi. Geez, As for some people not being happy about the price of non lead ammo, I think it's very relevant to this topic. The person who buys lead shotgun ammo for $6 a box may not be able to afford to buy his/her usual ( this is an example ) 10 boxes a year when the cost would be more then triple that. If you think those people, people like me are irrelevant, you are the only one over stepping here. I said, it may cause a drop in ammo sales. No one can validate or prove something that hasn't happened yet. You asked questions or more specific for a 'debate'. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. This thread has been peppered more or less about doves, and then it got the point it was inevitably going to reach with this: Looking at this, and seeing it's all about doves, again, I think it proves the majority of dove hunters want to keep using lead ammo. Just sayin'. As for proving the bullet points? The stats you posted don't even really go with your 'bullet points'. They are facts ( maybe, where's the links to prove your stats are correct ) based on the opinions and feelings of others. An opinion isn't a fact.
    1 point
  45. where's the mounts???? oh we know who's in charge.... lol!Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    1 point
  46. LOL In remodeling, sometimes square and level can look so out of place. Many times is it better to please the eye
    1 point
  47. The best time on a small mountain lake is sunrise in May. It is incredibly peaceful fishing then, especially without a noisy outboard, just using the oars of a rowboat, or paddle on a canoe or a kayak. I especially like watching and listening to the beavers play on the water at that time, and the turkeys gobbling up on the surrounding hilltops. After the sun gets higher, the wind picks up, and the other folks get out on the water, the attraction fades quite a bit.
    1 point
  48. but it's about the only option to hunt on Sunday if you are hunting PA on Saturday.And any hunting beats staring at camp walls. Lol
    1 point
  49. If they were in monogamous relationships I might agree, but one buck can breed many does. Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you don't bow hunt?
    1 point
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