Comparing legal shooting time to driving the speed limit

[regulat0r]

i know there is an entire thread discussing legal shooting times and the feeling regarding the "flexibility" about the exact times. I was sharing this topic with a buddy of mine and he brought up a good point. We both agreed that hunting is a great way to learn, value, and apreciate ethics...especially in young people. He was saying that regarding legal shooting times, a lot of guys say.."its the law and thats that". I saw several guys on this forum say that and I agree. To the guys that say this however, how many of you can say that you do not drive 1 mph over the speed limit? Both legal shooting times and speed limits are constructed with safety in mind. We know however that driving 5 mph over the speed limit will not pose a significant danger nor will shooting an animal 5 minutes before/after legal shooting time. I also agree that driving 30 mph over the speed limit is dangerous just as sitting in a tree stand until 9pm waiting for a buck would be dangerous. For discussion sake...to the guys who strictly follow legal shooting times...can you say that you do not drive even 1 mph over the speed limit and if you do, how do you compare the two? BTW- i am not advocating breaking any laws I am simply creating a discussion topic based on a conversation I had with a fellow sportsman. 

[fasteddie]

Well .... let's carry it a bit further . The speed limit is 55 and folks drive 65 ( some more ) . On the X-way it's 65 and people drive 75 (and more) .

So legal hunting time is 7:30 and some are shooting at 6:30 . If shooting is allowed 1/2 hour before sunrise will those same people that shoot at 6:30 , shoot even earlier . Same goes for sunset hours .

If I drive in excess of the speed limit , I am taking a chance of getting a ticket and paying a fine . Same goes for shooting before or after hours with a heftier penalty .

[regulat0r]

Well .... let's carry it a bit further . The speed limit is 55 and folks drive 65 ( some more ) . On the X-way it's 65 and people drive 75 (and more) .

So legal hunting time is 7:30 and some are shooting at 6:30 . If shooting is allowed 1/2 hour before sunrise will those same people that shoot at 6:30 , shoot even earlier . Same goes for sunset hours .

If I drive in excess of the speed limit , I am taking a chance of getting a ticket and paying a fine . Same goes for shooting before or after hours with a heftier penalty .

 

good point. i can see how it can keep getting pushed further. while reading the other thread though...i saw many many guys saying that they wait until exact legal shooting time because its the law, no exceptions. i was hoping that some of the guys that do that could respond and indicate if they ALWAYS drive the speed limit.

[Paula]

I always stick with the legal shooting time. I do speed once in a while when on a highway, never more than 5mph over, Not that it matters how much or little it's still wrong. I would rather pay for a speeding ticket than being fined for breaking a hunting law.

[irish_redneck]

I do not always drive the exact speed limit. I set a tone in my truck to let me know when I hit 62, my new truck is so smooth I'd find myself speeding without knowing it. I choose not to take a deer after legal light because hunting is a sport to me, not a food source in its entirety. If I were in a game where the rules were not to go over 55 I would ensure I did not due to respect of my fellow gamers/sportsmen/participants. As you said speeding a little on the thruway hurts no one. In fact it generally helps with better mileage.

[ncountry]

The last time I drove through Montana there was no posted speed limit. Everybody seemed to averaging 55-80 depending on what type of highway it was. Being young, I had to bring the old buick up over a 100 for a while but , I was happier driving a reasonable speed most of the time. I am betting not much would change, with a change in the hunting times. Most of us are hunting what is reasonable anyway. Those who aren't will not regardless of the law. Lets face it , not much enforcement of this .

Edited December 9, 2014 by ncountry

[malesi1]

I do not always drive the exact speed limit. I set a tone in my truck to let me know when I hit 62, my new truck is so smooth I'd find myself speeding without knowing it. I choose not to take a deer after legal light because hunting is a sport to me, not a food source in its entirety. If I were in a game where the rules were not to go over 55 I would ensure I did not due to respect of my fellow gamers/sportsmen/participants. As you said speeding a little on the thruway hurts no one. In fact it generally helps with better mileage.

 

What kind of truck has this option? I need it! I own a 2014 Tundra...

[incognito]

I would rather compare shooting before or after legal shooting time to discharging your firearm at the range during a cease fire.

Other nearby participants coordinate their actions to prevent fatalities and serious injury.

[mike rossi]

Is the speed limit the limit or the speed minimum? 

[Doc]

The question relates to compliance with laws. Well, do you pick and choose what other laws to abide by. You used the speed limit vs. the shooting hours law. How about having a license? Do you believe that that law should be left up to the discretion of the individual? How about bag limits? Is that one that you can abide by or not depending on how you feel. Should you be able to shoot a deer even though you don't have any tags left. Directly at the law in question, do you believe that people should ignore the illegality of shooting deer after dark. What the heck your out there with your gun in the dark and you have a good light ..... go for it.....right?

 

The fact is that you can ignore any law you want to, but ignoring a law is wrong whether it be game laws or vehicular operation laws. You may choose to ignore the law, but don't pretend that there is something right about doing so.

[First-light]

Those guys that call it quits at 1/2 before sunset are afraid of the dark. Just an easy excuse to get out of the woods before who knows starts stalking them! lol Seriously I have no problem shooting before or after those exact times. I have never looked at my watch to call it quits. I also drive no more than 5-7 miles over the speed limit on the way to camp. Seems the troopers let you slide if your within that range

[Bible Andy]

In this regulation I choose to be ignorant. I do not track the sunrise/sunset hours and do not look at my watch when it gets a little dusky. I quit when it is unsafe to shoot. I also go a couple miles over the speed limit on a regular basis. Am I wrong and should I follow the letter of the law? Yes. My difficulty is that I justify it in my mind.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Bible Andy

[growalot]

I hope ...especially for all those that hunt public land that you are are getting yearly eye exams...For as we age (and we are all aging) our eye sight weakens....seeing you don't like clicking links here:.. Oh and by the way...your mental perceptions are not always reality...just ask anyone that has had to deal with getting an elderly parent to stop driving...

 

 

Normal Age-Related Vision Changes
Not all declines in vision quality are the result of disease; certain anatomical changes naturally occur as the eyes age.

The various internal and external structures of the eyes, which all work together to help people see clearly at various distances and under different lighting conditions, begin to wear down as people get older.

Common age-related vision complaints include:

• "I can't see as clearly as I used to."
• "I have difficulty seeing objects close up."
• "Colors don't seem as vivid."
• "It's getting more difficult to see in the dark."
• "I'm less able to adapt to glare."
• "I need more light to see."

The most significant age-related changes seem to occur in the lens and the pupil; these account for the majority of vision limitations people experience as they get older. The extent to which these changes affect vision varies a bit with each person. But regardless of the degree to which these changes affect you, you can compensate for them and help ensure they don't endanger your safety or make it difficult for you to enjoy life.

Age-Related Eye Change #1

The pupil becomes smaller and less responsive to variations in light.

Impact: Because the pupil controls the amount of light that reaches the retina, age-related changes to the pupil may affect vision in many ways. First, as the pupil decreases in diameter, seeing well in dim light becomes harder. In addition, the less able the pupil is to adjust to varying light conditions, the less tolerable glare becomes and the more difficult it is to adapt from darkness to bright light or vice versa. This means as you get older, you may need more time to adjust to changing levels of illumination, such as going from bright sunshine into a dimly lit room or restaurant.

Compensation: Proper illumination can compensate for many of the changes in your pupil as you age. Try these illumination techniques:

• Increase the amount of ambient light throughout your home.
• Use individual lights —or task lighting —for specific tasks. Studies show that for specific tasks, the average 60-year-old person needs at least three times the amount of light compared with the average 20-year-old.
• Use timed lighting that switches on and off at set times of the day to ensure consistent ambient lighting.
• Install motion-sensor lights in your home that turn on automatically when you enter a room.
• Avoid bare bulbs, clear shades, and chandeliers without shades; these produce glare that can be disorienting and uncomfortable.
• Cover shiny, highly polished surfaces in the home or work areas with cloth or rugs to reduce glare.

Age-Related Eye Change #2

The lens of the eye begins to lose elasticity.

Impact: In the same way that losing flexibility in tendons and muscles makes it more difficult for the body to move, losing lens elasticity also makes it harder for the lens to bend in order to focus on closely held objects. This loss of focusing power, or lens accommodation, is known as presbyopia.

Compensation: Investing in certain sight aids can help compensate for losses in up-close vision. Try these sight aids if you're having trouble seeing close up:

• See your eye specialist regarding corrective devices such as reading glasses, bifocals, trifocals, progressive lenses (no lines), or possibly contact lenses to help you correctly see objects at close proximity.
• Have your eyes rechecked and reading lenses adjusted every 2 or 3 years; changes in lens elasticity typically occur progressively between the ages of 45 and 65.
• Shine additional light on close work materials to enhance your near vision; lights with adjustable necks are best for directly targeting work.
• Consider simple, over-the-counter reading glasses for up-close work if you do not need corrective lenses to see distances. The typical range of magnification needed is from +1.00 to + 3.00. Choose a weaker glass for computer work or a stronger glass for reading.

Researchers are studying new surgical interventions and devices that could restore at least some amount of near vision. However, these techniques are experimental, and given the tendency of the eye structure to constantly change, the long-term success of such interventions is unknown.

Age-Related Eye Change #3

The lens of the eye gradually yellows with age.

Impact: The yellowing of the eye lens affects color perception. For example, the yellowing lens tends to absorb and scatter blue light, making it difficult to see differences in shades of blue, green, and violet. Colors may seem duller, and contrasts between colors will be less noticeable. This may cause confusion when picking out clothes or performing other tasks that require color perception. It also may become difficult to tell where an object ends and its background begins, making it difficult to see curbs or steps, for example.

Compensation: A few specific adjustments to lighting and color choices should help alleviate the effects of minor lens yellowing. Try this:

• Choose halogen or fluorescent bulbs specifically designed to improve color rendering. Bulbs with a color-rendering index (CRI) above 80 may best help older eyes with color definition.
• Use warm contrasting colors, such as yellow, orange, and red, in your home to improve your ability to tell where things are and make it easier to perform daily activities.
• Put colored tape on the edge of steps to help make them easier to navigate.

Eventually, the underlying process that causes lens yellowing may lead to cataracts. Surgical procedures are available for people whose degree of vision impairment due to cataracts is severe enough to interfere with safety or quality of life.

Give Your Eyes a Boost

Creating an eye-friendly environment is only the beginning of boosting your vision. Studies show that certain lifestyle habits and dietary choices may help protect the lens of the eye and reduce the risk of certain lens conditions that diminish sight.

For example, a study published in the American Journal of Nutrition reveals that a diet rich in vitamin C and foods containing plant pigments, or carotenoids, may help protect the lens of the eye and reduce the risk of cataracts. A lack of these nutrients appears to speed cross-linking, a process in which proteins in the lens form unwanted links or bonds, making the lens thicker, more rigid, scattering even more light than it would otherwise.

Carotenoids exhibit antioxidant properties. Examples include beta carotene, lycopene, and lutein. There is no recommended daily allowance for carotenoids, but you can get your fill by eating lots of produce. Carotenoid-rich foods include sweet potatoes, cantaloupe, spinach, tomatoes, kale, and mangoes. Aim for four servings of fruit and five servings of vegetables per day to help ensure you get the nutrients you need to maximize your eye health.

In addition to certain nutritional deficits, other lifestyle choices may speed up cross-linking and put lens health at risk. These include smoking and excessive exposure to UV rays from the sun.

What's Not a Normal Part of Aging

As you get older, it is very important to have regular eye examinations. Some eye changes may signal something more serious than age-related changes, such as an eye disease that needs medical treatment. Even if you are not experiencing eye symptoms, regular checkups are a must. Many eye diseases do not have warning symptoms but could be minimized or slowed with proper treatment. For example, although eye diseases such as macular degeneration, glaucoma, cataracts, diabetic retinopathy, and retinal detachment are often painless and the onset is gradual, they can greatly impair vision if not promptly treated.

During a doctor appointment, if you have or are suspected of having disorders affecting the retina, or if you are at risk for other eye diseases such as glaucoma, you may be given an Amsler eye test.

Example Amsler Eye Test

Give your eyes a quick check using the Amsler Grid instructions below. This grid is one type of test used by eye-care specialists to identify vision changes that affect central vision -- the vision used for reading and other close-detail work. The Amsler Grid is a standard test for detecting defects in the eye's retina. Remember, this is a simulation of the actual test. Only an eye specialist can make an accurate diagnosis or rule out underlying disease.

1. Print out a paper version of the grid.
2. In a well-lit room, hold the grid at normal reading distance (14–18 inches away). If you normally wear glasses for reading, be sure to wear them.
3. Cover one eye and look at the box.
4. Focus on the dot in the center of the grid.
5. Note how the lines and squares appear.
6. Which of the following most closely resembles what you see? (Choose one.)
   • straight, evenly spaced horizontal and vertical lines that intersect to form squares, like graph paper
   • horizontal and vertical lines, similar to graph paper, with larger wavy lines bending outward at the center
   • horizontal and vertical lines, similar to graph paper, with smaller wavy lines bending inward at the center
   • horizontal and vertical lines, similar to graph paper, with lines blurred or distorted toward the center
7. Repeat the test on the other eye.

Go to the next page to find out what your answers may mean.

What Your Answer Might Mean

If you see straight, evenly spaced horizontal and vertical lines that intersect to form a square, then it is likely that your central vision is normal and healthy. Remember, however, that self-administered test results are not reliable, and this test is not a substitute for an expert medical diagnosis. Be sure to schedule regular eye exams in order to stay on top of any changes in your vision.

If some of the boxes are differently sized or shaped from the others, or if some lines are crooked, wavy, missing, blurry, distorted, or discolored, it may be a sign of a possible disturbance to central vision. See your healthcare provider or eye specialist for advice. Remember, however, that self-administered test results are not reliable. It is likely that any anomalies you see in this self-administered test are simply the result of the test conditions or of some other disturbance in your vision that is minor or temporary. This test is not a substitute for an expert medical diagnosis.

Visual Limitations Can Be Addressed

With age, almost everyone's vision deteriorates to some degree. Fortunately, there are several ways to lessen the impact of age-related eye changes. Making up for vision losses, no matter how big or small, is very important. If ignored, even mild visual impairment can lead to problems ranging from feelings of depression and social isolation to injuries from falls.

 

Edited December 9, 2014 by growalot

[Bow Addict]

If I can clearly see the deer I'm not looking at my watch.I'm not that paranoid.He's dead!Who really is that critical of the time.Not many I bet.

[Curmudgeon]

Those guys that call it quits at 1/2 before sunset are afraid of the dark.

 

Either that, or they hate tracking deer in the dark, especially in the big woods.

[growalot]

this thread reminds me of burma shave sayings ...if he wont dim his...I won't dim mine ...Crash burma shave

If he won't follow the given laws ...neither will I...Bang .....but it was an accident really, I didn't see him....

Edited December 9, 2014 by growalot

[irish_redneck]

What kind of truck has this option? I need it! I own a 2014 Tundra...

2014 Silverado

[Culvercreek hunt club]

good point. i can see how it can keep getting pushed further. while reading the other thread though...i saw many many guys saying that they wait until exact legal shooting time because its the law, no exceptions. i was hoping that some of the guys that do that could respond and indicate if they ALWAYS drive the speed limit.

Better analogy, what about playing on a softball league and when you get to the plate, you decide that YOU will get 4 strikes and not the 3 that everyone else gets? You may have team mates that wouldn't mind but how about the other team? Since you can make the rules on the amount of strikes for you , a guy on the other team decides he should get 5 then. Then your shortstop wants 6strikes? Where does that leave the integrity of the sport when rules are just a guideline?

[Five Seasons]

the argument is that if I cross several of our borders it's 30 min before and 30 min after. Are their "roads" any different than others. I do not believe hunters push the rule more if they go to 30 and 30. I believe anyone who shoots a few minutes before legal light is taking a perfectly safe shot that would be legal in many other states... and in many of those states you can own the gun you want too. It's a BS law and that's why people argue about it. Nobody here argues spotlighting and not tagging your deer. Why? Because those aren't stupid laws. A law is the law is spouted by the same guys I can guarantee you violate the safe act. So that's why the speed limit analogy is used.

[Doc]

Prior to starting the hunt, I get on the computer and check sunrise and sunset for the day, while I am getting wind directions and other valuable weather related info. I do own a watch to tell time while I am hunting. If we're so lazy or mentally unable to do those two things, maybe it's time to leave the gun or bow in the rack. If you are so damn desperate to get a deer that you don't care about the law, that might be another good reason to leave the gun in the rack and take up some other pastime.

 

Every year, I hear shots when it is practically dark. Seriously, it is conditions where whatever they are shooting at has to be just fuzzy blobs of movement. And we are supposed to ok a notion that the hunter knows best when to quit? You have a law ...... just follow it.

 

 

[wildcat junkie]

the argument is that if I cross several of our borders it's 30 min before and 30 min after. Are their "roads" any different than others. I do not believe hunters push the rule more if they go to 30 and 30. I believe anyone who shoots a few minutes before legal light is taking a perfectly safe shot that would be legal in many other states... and in many of those states you can own the gun you want too. It's a BS law and that's why people argue about it. Nobody here argues spotlighting and not tagging your deer. Why? Because those aren't stupid laws. A law is the law is spouted by the same guys I can guarantee you violate the safe act. So that's why the speed limit analogy is used.

I once heard a law enforcment official state that the 55MPH speed limit did more to instil disrespect for the law than any other single regulation. People (correctly) felt as though the 55MPH speed limit was not really necessary under most conditions. Indeed, our law makers seemed to have eventually seen the light & allowed higher speed limits in light traffic area.

 

I think the sunrise/sunset regulation has a similar affect, making law breakers out of otherwise ethical hunters. The 1/2 hour before/after rule, if leagal, would have to be used with discretion as far as making a judgement as to whether or not there was enough light to make a shot. If I can size up a buck's rack, in the shadows, at 240yds through my non iluminated reticle, moderately priced Kahles or Leupold scope on 9X, isn't there enough light to make a safe, ethical shot?

 

With iron sights, the limit for me under those regulaions would be whether or not I could see the sights well enough to make an ethical shot even if I could positively identify the target as a legal animal.

 

To me, that regulation is far more restrictive & indicative of "nannie state" mentality than any BO requirements.

[WNYBuckHunter]

What kind of truck has this option? I need it! I own a 2014 Tundra...

 

Your Tundra wont go over 65 anyway, so why worry about it?

[irish_redneck]

One thing that also influences speeding is I've been told by police that they have a 10% leeway policy. So 62 in a 55 , 73 in a 65 etc you're fine. DEC have never told me any such thing.

Edited December 9, 2014 by irish_redneck

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I would like to see the fines help fund new officers and patrols.

[phade]

Prior to starting the hunt, I get on the computer and check sunrise and sunset for the day, while I am getting wind directions and other valuable weather related info. I do own a watch to tell time while I am hunting. If we're so lazy or mentally unable to do those two things, maybe it's time to leave the gun or bow in the rack. If you are so damn desperate to get a deer that you don't care about the law, that might be another good reason to leave the gun in the rack and take up some other pastime.

 

Every year, I hear shots when it is practically dark. Seriously, it is conditions where whatever they are shooting at has to be just fuzzy blobs of movement. And we are supposed to ok a notion that the hunter knows best when to quit? You have a law ...... just follow it.

 

Many states have the 1/2 hour before/after rule. It seems like this is just another case of NY failing to fall in line with best practices and the law is what it is because there is no traction to change it. I compare it to the rifle vs. shotgun. Ten years ago, rifle talk in new rifle counties was cut off at the knees. Now with more support (probably based off of the gun control issue) it gained traction. That's just an observation, but seems pretty clear that the law could be changed with negligible effect on safety based on the fact that many states have the 30 min grace period.

Edited December 9, 2014 by phade