How many does should you shoot ?

[fasteddie]

Got this in an e-mail

 

https://youtu.be/ZA9EW2UKDDQ

[NFA-ADK]

Love his lessons!  Great guy, very knowledgeable.

[dbHunterNY]

can't watch the video right now but he started great.... first thing is holding capacity/habitat.  after that it's maintaining those numbers and sustaining the habitat.  there's a lot of factors that can come into play but you can shoot to many and in some areas it's hard to understand that you're not shooting enough.  anything from doe herd age structure, year round observation, browse surveys, etc.  all kinds of stuff to tell you if you need to shoot more or less.  most are just focused on their little honey hole though and can't get around the fact that doe harvest is always approximate and doesn't have to be an exact number.  hard to think that way though when you're trying to decide if you should take 1, 2, or 3 doe each season.

[grampy]

Steve gives down to earth advice without all the bling. He just seems to make sense to me.

[Grizz1219]

Great video.. those guys know their stuff for sure... 

[wolc123]

I agree that his advice was pretty much spot-on. I know I need to try and take more does up in the northern zone area I hunt. When I was fishing there over Memorial day weekend this year, I noticed that the pine trees all the way around the lake were trimmed neatly to about 5 feet of the water-line. It almost looked like professional landscapers did the job with hedge trimmers. Trying for lake trout, I did manage to catch and release 68 smallmouth bass without loosing a jig on a snag as a result, but that's an awful lot of browse pressure. I am going to try and take two mature does up there this fall during the early archery and ML seasons, even though it means giving up any chance at a Southern zone archery buck.

Killing mature does at home in the Southern zone is necessary but easier said than done. Getting them is way harder than getting mature bucks during archery season, because of the "groups" they always travel in, making drawing a bow very difficult. That problem would be eliminated if they opened up x-bow for the whole early season. The wise old does usually go completely nocturnal after hunting pressure is detected by the last two weeks of the archery season when the x-bow gets legal.

Last season I managed to fill my archery tag with a buck in the southern zone and gun buck tag in the Northern zone, but did not have a single opportunity for a shot at an antlerless deer. I did manage to knife a button buck that a hit-and run driver knocked the wind out of at the end of our driveway however. Killing them 3 bucks is keeping us fed good but didn't do much to reduce the deer population. I will have to try harder for some does this season.

What I didn't like about the video was his emphasis on taking the "evil" does from the "neighbors property". That sounds a little selfish to me, which makes him sound like an evil man. He had better get his act together there or he may be in for a rude awakening when his time on earth expires. "Selfish" is never good in the long run. One should always be looking for opportunities to help their neighbors, especially if you can help yourself in the process. Killing does can be a win-win-win-win deal, as it benefits the overall health of the deer herd, the habitat, yourself, and the neighbors. That is always true in zones where the herd is above optimum, as it clearly is in the northern and southern zones where I hunt.

Personally, I take any good opportunity at an antlerless deer. If they are in groups, targeting the largest first, no matter where it beds. Over the years, that has averaged about 25% button bucks. I don't mind, and my wife loves it when that happens as no deer is better eating. That is the main reason I hunt, antlers are overrated.

Edited July 18, 2015 by wolc123

[gjs4]

Steve is a great guy and his habitat business is money well spent. This is so paramount with regard to the state saying we have too many does- they're clueless. Unless you can manage your ground based on knowledge you'll find discontent.

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[First-light]

So how do I tell a doe apart from ones staying on my property??? That is kind of silly. These people can make an art out of growing bigger bucks and trying to keep them to yourself. I don't have the time for this, nor would I spend the time trying to grow bigger bucks. I'm tired and know I wont hunt much this year so I guess I'm grouchy! lol

[DirtTime]

What if you are not hunting over food plots you planted, or, say a farmers orchard or crop fields? What if you are hunting woods where the only food is natural wild food?

As First-light said, how do you know for a fact the does you are feeding from other does? Or bucks for that matter!

It seems people forget that not everyone is hunting the burbs or woods with food plots and apple trees abound. Some hunters still get up at 2 am, then after breakfast and gear check drive for two hours and hunt in the woods where acorns and pine cones are the top food source.

 

How many does to kill? I guess that depends on the latest survey.

[Hock3y24]

I try to shoot one per hunting area I have (as long. As I have tags) but if a big ol doe steps out I wouldn't hesitate to take another because I know not many people hunt the spots I have access too. Even if that means using my either sex bow tag on a doe I would.

[NFA-ADK]

I would be grouchy to if I could not hunt much!  That sucks First Light, I feel for you. 

 

Be careful about shooting to many doe.  Often people hear some advice and take it to heart.  Many clubs where told "You need to shoot more Doe!"  They did and after a rough winter had very few deer left vs before they "Culled" the population. 

 

Carrying capacity that is key, does the deer in your area have enough food?  Northern zone not so much unless near agriculture or towns or good food plots.  I doubt many in the northern zone would have plots like in his video. 

 

This video was geared more towards areas with high population like western NY or even southern zone.  In the Northern zone if you have a high population I would leave it, mother nature will fix any issues.  If you want doe for food I would target them in the south vs northern area.  When all is said and done you are the best judge of your grounds and can determine the best course of action. 

[dbHunterNY]

haven't watched the whole video yet.  just haven't gotten around to it i guess.  it's important to understand that despite not understanding some concepts or understanding that some might not apply to your situation in the exact same way.  you can still use the rest that makes sense and apply it.  eventually you learn more and more.
 

a vast majority don't have enough property for doe to stay exclusively on their property.  i can makeup their home range though.  you can start to pattern a doe group based on recorded observations kept in a log.  it'll help you look back and connect the dots.  even if you're in big woods there's still pockets of browse.  knowing which browse species deer prefer to can work off that and work backwords.  that could tell you if you have too many deer whether you're seeing many or not.  most of a deers food source is browse so not having a food plot or ag field doesn't mean there's less food for them.

 

[gjs4]

Scouting- or time glassine from afar and even trail cams- will bring your hunting out of luck and into the Intel stage. We all have obligations and choices for prioritization. Don't ruin your logic with an excuse.

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[Curmudgeon]

It is impossible to shoot too many doe in this neighborhood. There is too much land that cannot be hunted. There is a very large landowner whose family only shoot bucks.

 

These things vary over relatively short distances even within a town but we've been killing ~4 does on 80 acres each year since the late 90s and see no reduction in deer numbers. A DEC biologist told me we could shoot every doe we see on my property during the season and not impact the population (given the situation). There are always yearlings that would fill in the hole. A couple of years ago - mid-season - I was walking back to the house for lunch after not seeing a deer all morning. There were 18 grazing in the open across the road - a very safe spot.

[gjs4]

If you think it is impossible to shoot too many does I'd like to compare your degree and data to mine.

You'll realize it is possible when you're sitting their deerless. Predation, weather and other mortality/attrition take place. Mother Nature has a way of establishing carrying capacity and culling an abundance. Also note you may 18 deer in your vision but how does that relate to deer per square mile? How many bucks do you see?

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[Curmudgeon]

If you think it is impossible to shoot too many does I'd like to compare your degree and data to mine.

You'll realize it is possible when you're sitting their deerless. Predation, weather and other mortality/attrition take place. Mother Nature has a way of establishing carrying capacity and culling an abundance. Also note you may 18 deer in your vision but how does that relate to deer per square mile? How many bucks do you see?

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Your degree and data don't matter. Reread the post, I said in this neighborhood - and acknowledged that things vary within a town, even this town. Access for hunters is essential for population control. A 700 acre parcel in sight of me where no does are killed is a serious impediment to controlling numbers. Those guys hunt using large drives of over 20 people on their property, and others, killing every buck they can. We kill about as many legal bucks as does but rarely anything over a 1 1/2 year old.

 

The point is, these things are very variable from place to place. The opinion I expressed came from a DEC biologist who knows this place. They give me DMAP tags every year without question. They know what is going on here.

 

Deer per square mile? Hmmmm. I can go for a walk late in early spring and easily count 35-40 deer every evening. None more than 1/2 mile away. How many do I miss?

[growalot]

OK no matter what I say I'm sure this will be taken wrong...Though it just seemed to pop out in your statement...So I have to ask:

 

We have a similar situation...thank heavens on our hill100 to 300 acre parcels no doe allowed...but flip side of the coin surrounded by brown down and then more selective hunters like my self. You made a point a couple of times they shoot every buck they can and your group shoot an equal amount of buck and doe, but rarely anything over 1 1/2.

This sounded like a complaint of sorts I may have read it wrong...but if you know they are killing every buck they see and no doe( you never ventured #'s there) and your only seeing 1 1/2 yr olds(assuming this was a complaint) why shoot any buck at all for a year or 2? Doe meat usually tastes better any how...

[gjs4]

They'll give anyone dmaps- the process doesn't even involve a biologist visit anymore.

I apologize for the miss on your "localized" population. Don't forget that herd will relocate and perhaps you have a great concentration that what is beyond your boundaries or knowledge.

Glad to hear the gun driving folks in your area shoot as many juvenile bucks as does- it finished the already painted picture.

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[Curmudgeon]

It wasn't a complaint, just a response to gis jumping on me after not reading the details of my post.

 

We are willing to play by the same rules as everyone else. We let the little ones pass early in the season for a few years but it seemed we were just saving them for the neighbors who picked them off during the season with the big crew.

 

I know several landowner groups nearby that have agreements to not shoot small bucks. It works for them. I would do the same if the whole hill would agree to it.

 

We shoot as many bucks as does. The drivers only shoot bucks.

 

I'll leave it to Virgil to change some minds. He has less of a buffer than me.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[growalot]

OK..not sure you answered what I was asking or I just don't understand...see I have never done mounts  not even on my bigger buck so hunting in it's self is the goal. I'll just shoot doe if I feel the buck are too small...last year was an exception due to the elderly man that truly needed the meat.

[GreeneHunter]

I'll shoot one Doe per year maybe two depending on what my Trail Cams tell me !  There are not too many hunters in my area .

[Curmudgeon]

Grow -

 

A bunch of family and close friends are hunting this property. I don't control what they shoot. I make sure everyone has a doe tag of some sort for opening weekend so we will have a pile of carcasses to cut up Monday.

 

Personally, at this point I only kill deer to control numbers and fill the freezer. Big buck, small buck, doe, whatever. If I had a 140" or better walk by, I would probably take a pass. Any buck that can live that long around here deserves another chance.

 

Last opening weekend Sunday -

 

 

 

[growalot]

Mine are on what I see...our #'s are down here as compared to past years ...what to blame? Lots of things..from weather,farming,to knowing just one guy that shot 11 deer last year alone just down the road..why I thank God for the no doe zones...They are needed in some areas like it or not...even in"  high doe density areas ".

[monkeyman2269]

I'll shoot as many mature does as I can but I won't shoot any buck under 100 inches

[Doc]

I only need two deer per year to fill our venison needs anymore, and I really don't care what gender they are. Most years, I get what I need and have a heck of a good time doing it. I'm not as picky anymore because I just don't have the endurance that I once had. Thank God for my ATV ..... lol.