Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[Five Seasons]

This is why this move is strictly for population control. If people would stop gobbling up the DMPs and not filling them, then they would not need to make the first two weeks doe only. I do believe though, that doing this during gun would have a greater affect on the population.

 

there's a war against the bowhunter. Let's try and control the doe population by impacting the smallest group of hunters. That math works right?

 

Let's just be honest about this. All this does is increase poaching. I'm not afraid to say it and you that disagree are just afraid to admit it. More guys will be cutting up their own deer and not tagging at all. More hunters will put another county on their tag. We hunt in 7J (unaffected) and often bring our deer back home to (8F) less than hours drive to be cut up.

 

Very few hunters have enough restraint to pass a pope and young on october 13th. I'm sorry and you won't change my mind on that.

[steve863]

unfortunately, I think we greatly overestimate the amount of hunters who really follow these thing closely and really care...............and I'm sure DEC feeds off of this.

 

 

Absolutely correct!   The vast majority of hunters don't think about hunting 24/7.  Many buy licenses and then don't even get to go out hunting much or at all.  Even the ones that do hunt a bit don't keep up with regulation proposals or changes.  Being that the median age of hunters is pushing 50 years of age,  I'm sure many are not online looking into this stuff like some people on this forum.  Then you have your hardcore hunters who are probably more concerned with setting up stands, cameras, food plots, so they aren't the ones writing letters to the DEC either.  Doesn't leave too many others to be challenging the DEC on this stuff.  They will do what they want, and know that they can get away with it.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 I wasn't referring to the legal regulation definition, but the fact that if a lot get hammered you'll have many less bucks in the future.

Oh they will get hammered, will happen with an EAB program too. I said the 1.5 harvest rate will jump 20% in these areas this year. I may be estimating low.

[nyslowhand]

Always thought a velvet buck mount would be neat.. Oops, did I say that? 

 

Wish I still had the back issue of NYON where the DEC was asked about the results of the email and postal comments. Believe their take was "Mixed results, some for, some against..and most points of view were either strongly pro or con". I didn't get the impression there was any overwhelming majority, either way. Which leads me to believe the hunting community had no real effect on DEC's decision to make the changes they did.

 

I do not foresee any deer apocalypse, like the DEC is forecasting. Doesn't mother nature generally take care of overpopulation issues herself?

[OBrien33]

What about all of the small game and waterfowl hunters that are already in the woods? Failing to see your logic here.

I was more talking around my neck of the woods. The shooting we usually hear comes mid Sept checking sights. Not much in the way of either small game or waterfowlers around me.

[Five Seasons]

Watch how many 1.5's hit the deck this year in these areas. you reduce the time to pursue the bucks and there are many that will take what is available. I bet the 1.5 harvest goes up by 20% in these areas.   

 

real good point as well. Now I have more pressure and less time? I might not pass that 6 point that I passed on 10/9. It'll be like opening day of gun without all the gun shots.

[The_Real_TCIII]

real good point as well. Now I have more pressure and less time? I might not pass that 6 point that I passed on 10/9. It'll be like opening day of gun without all the gun shots.

just shoot one of the dozens of doe that they seem to think are crawling around our bow stands presenting easy shots that we won't take

[G-Man]

that is total and other bs. I'll give you my personal example which I'm sure can be applied many times over to the rest of the state and 8F. There are maybe a dozen or so archers within a 1,000 acre area. Most of us drop a doe each during the season with one weapon or another. The area is crawling with doe, yet they're healthy and buck numbers are good. Even if the dozen or so of us all shot a doe the first week it wouldn't make a difference. The hunter numbers triple during gun season. Even with brown it's down neighbors, the doe numbers remain steady.

asking archers to take more doe is not the issue and there just simply isn't enough bowhunters to do it. The biggest issue in our area? A big plant that doesn't allow hunting but has orchards and all sorts of sanctuary.

How about this? Full inclusion for crossbow but the first 2 weeks are doe only for them?

true but how many doe do you pass on average during bow waiting for a buck?? I can shoot 10 to 20 doe a year with bow (now granted some may be return deer from another day) fact is bow hunters did not manage the herd, most of us bow hunt for opportunity at a good buck . I know many others who do the same, dec has said for years shoot doe, that is why they allow crossbow and soon to be early muzzloader to do what bow hunter refuse to do, look at the wining going on now!!!

[NYBuckHunter27]

We traded rifle inclusion for a loss of 4 weeks of good bowhunting here in 8G....

[CFHunter]

there's a war against the bowhunter. Let's try and control the doe population by impacting the smallest group of hunters. That math works right?

 

Let's just be honest about this. All this does is increase poaching. I'm not afraid to say it and you that disagree are just afraid to admit it. More guys will be cutting up their own deer and not tagging at all. More hunters will put another county on their tag. We hunt in 7J (unaffected) and often bring our deer back home to (8F) less than hours drive to be cut up.

 

Very few hunters have enough restraint to pass a pope and young on october 13th. I'm sorry and you won't change my mind on that.

 

I am perfectly fine saying that this will increase poaching, it already happens. In areas where you only get one doe permit. I know there are guys out there that will apply for a DMU that has a high probably on the second tag. They then fill that tag in a low DMP area and just report is as being shot in the other DMU. A lot of the things the DEC does promotes poaching. The cutting up the deer and never tagging is happening all the time. Laws and rules only affect the honest!!!!! Goes for everything in life.

 

And just to clarify, I am not agreeing with this decision at all. It would be smarter to do something like this during regular season, or earn a buck.

Edited August 5, 2015 by CFHunter

[growalot]

 

true but how many doe do you pass on average during bow waiting for a buck?? I can shoot 10 to 20 doe a year with bow (now granted some may be return deer from another day) fact is bow hunters did not manage the herd,

 

The real fact is WE DO NOT HAVE THE DOE TAGS.  I our high doe area you can get up to 4 doe tags  that are not sign overs...you have 3 seasons to use 4 different weapons in. Now the first 2 tags you can get right off...but WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NOV. 1 to get the other two tags...

I'm not burning my either or on a doe the first week of bow...I hunt 2 different areas so that leaves me  just 1 doe tag to use in that first two week(wow that's a huge impact). Say I get lucky and I have, I still won't use those other tags until AFTER NOV 1. If I am lucky in bow and take a buck, also that leaves me with the regular season buck and those two extra doe and the ML doe tag (keeping me in the woods). If I shoot a buck in gun and doe I won't need the ML...so why buy it? why hunt.

 

Now iF I'm not luck in  Regular gun I use to be able to use the buck tag in ML...and would go out and maybe use the either or tag while looking to use the buck tag...NOT NOW! now if I don't use that buck tag in regular season it's tag soup...So whats the incentive to go out? NONE

[dbHunterNY]

The real fact is WE DO NOT HAVE THE DOE TAGS.  I our high doe area you can get up to 4 doe tags  that are not sign overs...you have 3 seasons to use 4 different weapons in. Now the first 2 tags you can get right off...but WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NOV. 1 to get the other two tags...

I'm not burning my either or on a doe the first week of bow...I hunt 2 different areas so that leaves me  just 1 doe tag to use in that first two week(wow that's a huge impact). Say I get lucky and I have, I still won't use those other tags until AFTER NOV 1. If I am lucky in bow and take a buck, also that leaves me with the regular season buck and those two extra doe and the ML doe tag (keeping me in the woods). If I shoot a buck in gun and doe I won't need the ML...so why buy it? why hunt.

 

Now iF I'm not luck in  Regular gun I use to be able to use the buck tag in ML...and would go out and maybe use the either or tag while looking to use the buck tag...NOT NOW! now if I don't use that buck tag in regular season it's tag soup...So whats the incentive to go out? NONE

 

I understand wanting to shoot a buck but your reg season tag isn't tag soup.  you can still use it late season for a doe.

[phade]

true but how many doe do you pass on average during bow waiting for a buck?? I can shoot 10 to 20 doe a year with bow (now granted some may be return deer from another day) fact is bow hunters did not manage the herd, most of us bow hunt for opportunity at a good buck . I know many others who do the same, dec has said for years shoot doe, that is why they allow crossbow and soon to be early muzzloader to do what bow hunter refuse to do, look at the wining going on now!!!

 

How many does need to be shot in these impacted units then? Can the DEC tell us this? No. Can you? They said to shoot does - did they say to shoot another 500, 5,000, or 50,000? No. This isn't on bowhunters or muzzleloaders shoulders. It's on the DEC with an agenda and they're not concerned with screwing over groups to get there. Yet they say doe population is the problem and they are enacting regs in the seasons of least effective tools to immediately make an impact. That's an agenda. If they really wanted doe levels down, they'd be going to gun hunters because that's where 100k DMPs were filled last year.

 

12k antlerless were shot across the entire state in bow in 2014. How is it possible to even make a dent in doe numbers using such a tool? Double it...heck triple it. Why don't we even multiply it by 5 (60k). That's still half of what was made available for  DMP drawing this year in only three of the WMUs that fall within the antlerless seasons. There is no feasible way bowhunters can meet any unpublished or unspecified goals of the DEC. There is no transparency at all. You better shoot does and meet our goal, but we're not going to tell you what our goal is, so good luck. Sure, sounds like its bowhunters who are the problem. Sheesh.

[phade]

I understand wanting to shoot a buck but your reg season tag isn't tag soup.  you can still use it late season for a doe.

 

I've seen you state this several times on these threads - there really are not going to be many people wanting to go hunt doe-only during the MZ/late archery season. If you think participation rates are going to be high, I'd like to understand why. The only people who will be out there are the ones who really are light in the freezer themselves after a poor season. Most hunters are going to say screw it, I am not getting up in this weather and snow to only shoot a doe. And, MZ season is as late as it can be this year, there will be xmas parties, etc. that weekend. Plus, if there are that many does really running around as they say, there's not much excuse to be low on the freezer at that point, right? MZ participation is going to be abysmal.

 

If this becomes a permanent thing in my hunting areas, I'll probably offload my MZ gear. It doesn't make sense to hunt 1-2 days with it (weekends only or an afternoon off) for a doe.

Edited August 5, 2015 by phade

[moog5050]

I was in agreement with you Phade until you called me a "Whacko" for owning a TC.  All bets off now.

[phade]

I was in agreement with you Phade until you called me a "Whacko" for owning a TC.  All bets off now.

 

LOL, I was even mad at myself for buying the Vortek UL thinking it didn't make sense to have that and only hunt 1 or 2 times with it. Now, it makes zero sense if it's not going to be used.

 

That TC will make a pretty gun to hang over the fireplace though. Won't do much for killing bucks in all likelihood.

[steve863]

 

 

Very few hunters have enough restraint to pass a pope and young on october 13th. I'm sorry and you won't change my mind on that.

 

 

Can't you say the same thing if bucks were legal on October 1?  Will the guy who is at his hunting spot on September 30 have any better restraint if he happens to see that big buck?   Look, we all know what goes on in hunting, but you guys are killing me with these innuendos of the illegal activities that you surely think will happen because of this new doe only law.  Just because we don't like this rule, doesn't mean we now need to resort to illegal activities.  I've heard this saying that those who think that everyone else is a crook are probably crooks themselves.  Kind of fits some of the comments on this thread.  Those who say others will resort to killing bucks on October 13, might probably be the ones who would do it themselves also if the opportunity presented itself.  Not accusing you of anything here, Belo, you seem like a decent, reasonable sort, but just making a point.

[jjb4900]

Can't you say the same thing if bucks were legal on October 1?  Will the guy who is at his hunting spot on September 30 have any better restraint if he happens to see that big buck?   Look, we all know what goes on in hunting, but you guys are killing me with these innuendos of the illegal activities that you surely think will happen because of this new doe only law.  Just because we don't like this rule, doesn't mean we now need to resort to illegal activities.  I've heard this saying that those who think that everyone else is a crook are probably crooks themselves.  Kind of fits some of the comments on this thread.  Those who say others will resort to killing bucks on October 13, might probably be the ones who would do it themselves also if the opportunity presented itself.  Not accusing you of anything here, Belo, you seem like a decent, reasonable sort, but just making a point.

I would guess the same people who would bend the laws because of these new regulations, have been bending them all along.......not much will change.

[b3h]

Because of these changes that really do impact those affected and are already changing the way hunts are planned, tools used, licenses being purchased, etc ...

 

My question is - Will these changes make you consider hunting out of state or expanding a scheduled out of state hunt?

[jjb4900]

Because of these changes that really do impact those affected and are already changing the way hunts are planned, tools used, licenses being purchased, etc ...

 

My question is - Will these changes make you consider hunting out of state or expanding a scheduled out of state hunt?

no, as long as I can take a doe or two I'm satisfied..........I don't hunt for trophies.

[phade]

Can't you say the same thing if bucks were legal on October 1?  Will the guy who is at his hunting spot on September 30 have any better restraint if he happens to see that big buck?   Look, we all know what goes on in hunting, but you guys are killing me with these innuendos of the illegal activities that you surely think will happen because of this new doe only law.  Just because we don't like this rule, doesn't mean we now need to resort to illegal activities.  I've heard this saying that those who think that everyone else is a crook are probably crooks themselves.  Kind of fits some of the comments on this thread.  Those who say others will resort to killing bucks on October 13, might probably be the ones who would do it themselves also if the opportunity presented itself.  Not accusing you of anything here, Belo, you seem like a decent, reasonable sort, but just making a point.

 

I don't think you get it. Alot of people are going to take themselves out of the game to avoid such an encounter or because of the lack of opportunity. It's going to drive down participation, which in turn results in reduced harvest, which in turn results in that sweet stainless muzzleloader barrel going right up our collective rear-end in 2016. 

Edited August 5, 2015 by phade

[jjb4900]

that sweet stainless muzzleloader barrel going right up our collective rear-end in 2016. 

now I know why you said get the vaseline ready.......

[steve863]

I don't think you get it. Alot of people are going to take themselves out of the game to avoid such an encounter. It's going to drive down participation, which in turn results in reduced harvest, which in turn results in that sweet stainless muzzleloader barrel going right up our collective rear-end in 2016. 

 

 

 

I wouldn't disagree with what you are saying, but taking yourself out of the game and choosing not to hunt is one thing, and saying that many people will kill a buck no matter what the law now says is another.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

LOL, I was even mad at myself for buying the Vortek UL thinking it didn't make sense to have that and only hunt 1 or 2 times with it. Now, it makes zero sense if it's not going to be used.

 

That TC will make a pretty gun to hang over the fireplace though. Won't do much for killing bucks in all likelihood.

At least he can get a rifle or pistol barrel for his...lol

[NYBuckHunter27]

Poaching or out of season hunting/shared tag use/no tag use/ or crossbow use during all of bow-season/baiting... already takes place without these new doe changes, i believe the illegal activity will only increase. People already have a hard-on for the government/DEC, you really think they're not gonna shoot that buck or doe on the back forty, drag it up to the barn and cut it up before it even gets cold.

 

you guys who think every hunter or person who hunts is a saint are seriously misguided, go to a local coffee shop this weekend and just listen i'm sure you'll hear what guys future plans are. Go during the actual season, and i'm sure you'll hear some real interesting stories....