Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[jjb4900]

Let me put out an open public apology right now:

 

I apologize to all the other hunters in any non effected area for having to be forced into a decision of having to move into your area and going up against you in the DMP lottery. This as well as any possible usage of my regular buck tag in your area lowering the # of bucks and doe you have.

Remember You may not have thought this very poorly thought out decision  by the DEC effects you, but I know different...For this I apologize, for I will not be black mailed into doing something I have been doing for years anyways . I will not participate in such a poor plan, making them think it was the proper way to go...I apologize for your future hunts.

let me know when you come down to Long Island, I'll put you in some good spots and maybe we'll get lunch.........no real competition in the dmp lottery, pretty much unlimited tags.

[The_Real_TCIII]

No you’re not I choose to pass on small bucks the key word here is choose. But I don’t have a problem with whatever someone else shoots. I’m going to shake their hand whether it’s a spike or a 10pt. if you’re happy with it I’m happy for you. You’re the kind of guy I would hunt with. I won’t hunt with a guy who is only after big racks and then bitch that he see no bucks when he lets a 120 or 130 walk because he won’t shoot anything under 140. Then the guy mocks someone who shoots a deer smaller then one he would shoot. hunting not fun for guys like that they spend more time bitching and complaining what someone else is doing then hunting. their the ones who should get out of the sport.

A guy like that oughta be happy if another Hunter tags out on a small buck anyway!

[stubby68]

                          The DEC says that in these areas more does need to be shot. Maybe if bow hunters had been shooting does in years past then they would not have came up with these new regs. Do I agree with those regs? NO I believe we as hunter should have a choice as to what we shoot. I also believe that when they issue doe tags they should be used. We all know that many tags are gotten and never used. Why?  Because the ones who got them do not believe in shooting does and get them in hopes of keeping them out of the hands of hunters who shoot does. Most ( not all ) but most bow hunters are out there for antlers. That is effident by all the coments in this thread saying they will not hunt those 2 weeks or even those going as far as saying they are considering stopping hunting all together. 

                          There also have been comments saying this is stupis because bow hunting is too ineffected to get the job done. Realy? Is it that bow hunters cant do it or wont? Sounding like they wont. I want my buck why cant I shoot a buck. cry cry cry. I know not all bow hunters are out there for just the rack but there are far more then those whoe take does. Effident of the fact that there is an over population in certian areas. Look at what weapon is most used in these over populated areas . Want it is bows. Look at the number of bucks taken over does. Which is greater? want to bet bucks?

                          The crying is bad enough now. Cant wait to hear it all next year when they make a 2 week muzzy doe only season in october.

                          When ever I say bow hunters are all about the rack I get attacked yet going back through this thread you will find many many comments complaining about not being able to shoot bucks and that they will not hunt those 2 weeks if they cant. If you are willing to shoot a doe at the end then then why is there a problem with shooting one in the begining. The dec knows that most of the ones saying they wait till the end to shoot the does are full of it. They will not shot any. They are only trying to get you bow hunters to shoot does. Something that letting you make that choice on is not been working. They are not telling you that you can not shoot a buck they are just saying because you havent been shooting does because all you want is a buck then you have to wait to shoot your buck. This is showing just which bow hunters are only in it for decorations and whic are in it for hunting.

 

                            And for those saying I own my property and I will do what I want on it. News flash I nor anybody owns there property. We put a security deposite on it and pay rent (aka Taxes ) every year. If you truely think you own it then stop paying your rent and see what happens.

[growalot]

It's black mail pure and simple and they are not willing to give us the tools to do what they want when they want it done...It boils down to not condoning poor management decisions..Now in the end if all the ppl you are speaking of ,that includes me...but I will be hunting some where else...If we all stick to our guns they will have to open their eyes and actually engage their brains...I wrote them and said that they were absolutely clueless as to the mind set of NYS hunters....They proved me right with aces

[phade]

                          The DEC says that in these areas more does need to be shot. Maybe if bow hunters had been shooting does in years past then they would not have came up with these new regs. Do I agree with those regs? NO I believe we as hunter should have a choice as to what we shoot. I also believe that when they issue doe tags they should be used. We all know that many tags are gotten and never used. Why?  Because the ones who got them do not believe in shooting does and get them in hopes of keeping them out of the hands of hunters who shoot does. Most ( not all ) but most bow hunters are out there for antlers. That is effident by all the coments in this thread saying they will not hunt those 2 weeks or even those going as far as saying they are considering stopping hunting all together. 

                          There also have been comments saying this is stupis because bow hunting is too ineffected to get the job done. Realy? Is it that bow hunters cant do it or wont? Sounding like they wont. I want my buck why cant I shoot a buck. cry cry cry. I know not all bow hunters are out there for just the rack but there are far more then those whoe take does. Effident of the fact that there is an over population in certian areas. Look at what weapon is most used in these over populated areas . Want it is bows. Look at the number of bucks taken over does. Which is greater? want to bet bucks?

                          The crying is bad enough now. Cant wait to hear it all next year when they make a 2 week muzzy doe only season in october.

                          When ever I say bow hunters are all about the rack I get attacked yet going back through this thread you will find many many comments complaining about not being able to shoot bucks and that they will not hunt those 2 weeks if they cant. If you are willing to shoot a doe at the end then then why is there a problem with shooting one in the begining. The dec knows that most of the ones saying they wait till the end to shoot the does are full of it. They will not shot any. They are only trying to get you bow hunters to shoot does. Something that letting you make that choice on is not been working. They are not telling you that you can not shoot a buck they are just saying because you havent been shooting does because all you want is a buck then you have to wait to shoot your buck. This is showing just which bow hunters are only in it for decorations and whic are in it for hunting.

 

                            And for those saying I own my property and I will do what I want on it. News flash I nor anybody owns there property. We put a security deposite on it and pay rent (aka Taxes ) every year. If you truely think you own it then stop paying your rent and see what happens.

 

So say we shoot 5k more does in the impacted WMUs. How many of those would be shot in gun by the same people slinging the arrow? Probably 90%.

 

They issue 140k DMPs in only three of these units in '15. 140,000.....5k harvest? Not even a needle mover according to them. Dec says we need alot more does shot. How many is alot? How can we meet that goal? You are saying this is on bowhunters not shooting does? Complete BS. Tell me, has the DEC said we need to shoot 5,000 more does here? 10? 30,000? No.

 

How can bowhunters be held accountable their actions when the DEC does not identify the number we need to shoot as bowhunter? The first rule in anything business related (this is a business for them) is to set CLEAR expectations. Shoot more does. Sounds simple right? BS. How many is "more"? Bowhunters, we need you to hit a target of 10,000 antlerless this season in 8H. That's a clear expectation set. 

 

If the DEC stated this, and said look, shoot 10k or else you'll have an antlerless season next year. Boom, I George Foreman guarantee bowhunters would let hell unleashed to fill the tags. Ohio issues WEEKLY harvest updates. This could be done to track in-season to monitor progress, too.

 

I'm still waiting to see anyone from the DEC set a clear expectation or anyone trying to pin this on bowhunters tell me how many "more" is. This is a DEC agenda and any hunter who doesn't see that is implicit in churning our ranks and continuing to support an agency that is clearly inept.

Edited August 6, 2015 by phade

[dbHunterNY]

Why wouldnt I get anything for mine? Id be marketing it on the web, not selling it locally lol. Plenty of people are in the market for TC Custom Shop Encores.

 

it's like a car.... lots of depreciation.  "anything" being relative. same with bows and others stuff unless it's something truely collectible.

[WNYBuckHunter]

it's like a car.... lots of depreciation.  "anything" being relative. same with bows and others stuff unless it's something truely collectible.

 

I didnt buy it new, there wont be much, if any depreciation. Guns dont tend to drop off like bows or cars. Ill keep it around for now, see what happens down the road. I can always pop a rifle barrel on it and take it out now and then if Im feeling the urge to give my 308 a rest.

[Five Seasons]

In these areas the "Either sex" tag is only good for an antlerless in the late season. So many will se it as a "use it or lose it" by November 20th. Now if they have  a fist full of other doe tags, what will that tag be used on?

 

use it or lose it. that is exactly what it is. not only does this regulation remove some of our rights, it sends our age structure plummeting.

[dbHunterNY]

I didnt buy it new, there wont be much, if any depreciation. Guns dont tend to drop off like bows or cars. Ill keep it around for now, see what happens down the road. I can always pop a rifle barrel on it and take it out now and then if Im feeling the urge to give my 308 a rest.

 

my point was it's usually not worth it to get rid of it.  I fully believe Phade has a good point.  I and friends would be calling DEC everyday, filling up voicemail boxes, asking what the target doe harvest is.  if they don't have a really good idea, I'd bet after a while of harassment they'd come up with an answer.  then educate others of this info, spreading the word, like I know you do with everything else.  that's what I'd be doing first.  just had a meeting last night and doe harvest was hot topic... passing bucks wasn't even a discussion.  our next public meeting we're hoping to have our new region 4 biologist at to explain some things applicable out this way.  not that we're even slightly in the same situation, because we're definitely not.

[Five Seasons]

a lot of interesting comments............I always thought of a trophy hunter as the guy who would rather burn his tag then put it on a lesser buck no matter what the reason, guess not.........why not just shoot those does and let the 1.5 go another year?

 

the trophy hunter still will. Average joe wont. Do you not know the same hunters I do? Need to shoot horns every year no matter what?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

                          The DEC says that in these areas more does need to be shot. Maybe if bow hunters had been shooting does in years past then they would not have came up with these new regs. Do I agree with those regs? NO I believe we as hunter should have a choice as to what we shoot. I also believe that when they issue doe tags they should be used. We all know that many tags are gotten and never used. Why?  Because the ones who got them do not believe in shooting does and get them in hopes of keeping them out of the hands of hunters who shoot does. Most ( not all ) but most bow hunters are out there for antlers. That is effident by all the coments in this thread saying they will not hunt those 2 weeks or even those going as far as saying they are considering stopping hunting all together. 

                          There also have been comments saying this is stupis because bow hunting is too ineffected to get the job done. Realy? Is it that bow hunters cant do it or wont? Sounding like they wont. I want my buck why cant I shoot a buck. cry cry cry. I know not all bow hunters are out there for just the rack but there are far more then those whoe take does. Effident of the fact that there is an over population in certian areas. Look at what weapon is most used in these over populated areas . Want it is bows. Look at the number of bucks taken over does. Which is greater? want to bet bucks?

                          The crying is bad enough now. Cant wait to hear it all next year when they make a 2 week muzzy doe only season in october.

                          When ever I say bow hunters are all about the rack I get attacked yet going back through this thread you will find many many comments complaining about not being able to shoot bucks and that they will not hunt those 2 weeks if they cant. If you are willing to shoot a doe at the end then then why is there a problem with shooting one in the begining. The dec knows that most of the ones saying they wait till the end to shoot the does are full of it. They will not shot any. They are only trying to get you bow hunters to shoot does. Something that letting you make that choice on is not been working. They are not telling you that you can not shoot a buck they are just saying because you havent been shooting does because all you want is a buck then you have to wait to shoot your buck. This is showing just which bow hunters are only in it for decorations and whic are in it for hunting.

 

                            And for those saying I own my property and I will do what I want on it. News flash I nor anybody owns there property. We put a security deposite on it and pay rent (aka Taxes ) every year. If you truely think you own it then stop paying your rent and see what happens.

There aren't enough bow hunters to get the numbers down. Phade actually posted take numbers in one of these threads. if it tripled the take it wouldn't make a dent. The most prevalent weapon in the areas impacted is a gun, not a bow. do you hunt in any of the WMU's that have this happening?

[G-Man]

Phase says bow hunters aren't enough, and that is true today, but 10 years ago, they would of been if bowhunters shot doe,simple truth is most didn't and now numbers are out of wack ( I don't care what target number is now) thus enter the crossbow, and soon if bow hunters do now step up muzzleloader. Yes bow hunters will not stem the population now but look at it as a retraining of mind set, shoot does control population... being beat into your head instead of waiting for a buck, ar coming for same reason, shoot doe,can't shoot little buck so shoot more doe. That's all dec wants, now you see the mind retraining beginning.

[Five Seasons]

jjb4900 No you’re not I choose to pass on small bucks the key word here is choose. But I don’t have a problem with whatever someone else shoots. I’m going to shake their hand whether it’s a spike or a 10pt. if you’re happy with it I’m happy for you. You’re the kind of guy I would hunt with. I won’t hunt with a guy who is only after big racks and then bitch that he see no bucks when he lets a 120 or 130 walk because he won’t shoot anything under 140. Then the guy mocks someone who shoots a deer smaller then one he would shoot. hunting not fun for guys like that they spend more time bitching and complaining what someone else is doing then hunting. their the ones who should get out of the sport.

 

Excluding the mocking part, the guy who only shoots 140's shouldn't be made to feel bad either. It goes both ways. The attack on the horn hunter on this site is disappointing. Like some how the meat hunter is the only real way to do it.

 

[moog5050]

How much of this perceived lack of doe killing by BHs is really more of a failure to report kills?  Is that some how taken into account by DEC?

 

Regardless, there just aren't enough BHs in the woods, whether waiting for a buck or not, to kill huge numbers of doe.  EAB through gun season will result in a much greater doe slaughter.  Not sure if this isn't implemented due to $$$$$ for DEC.

 

ARs in this area would also have a very limited effect since most 1.5 bucks are 6s or 8s anyways.

[Five Seasons]

                                         There also have been comments saying this is stupis because bow hunting is too ineffected to get the job done. Realy? Is it that bow hunters cant do it or wont?

 

i can't remember if you bow hunt or not stubby, but if you don't your opinion is invalid. You have no say if you're not out there with us. If they took your buck away during opening weekend you'd lose your sh!t.

 

 

but because maybe you're bad at math or just felt like spewing nonsense without doing some research let me enlighten you.

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/26368.html

bow stamps - 46,944

small and big game - 103k

sportsman - 150k

super sportsman - 116k

 

assuming all the sportsman and supersportman aslo bowhunted you still have over twice the amount of hunters buying small/big game tags. And the DEC hasn't clued us in to how many doe need to be shot so we don't even know if every bow hunter shot a doe if 46k would be enough. What if every sportsman shot a doe is that 150k enough?

 

non-resident might be the best gauge

18k big game

<2k bow hunters

 

So maybe we can assume the gun to bow hunter ratio is conservatively 1 bow hunter for every 8 gun hunters... why again are bow hunters attacked? Why again does your statement even make an ounce of sense when statistically bow hunters make up the smallest population of hunters in the state?

 

Oh and the cherry on top? 57k mz stamps or $1.19M dollars... lets see how that goes this year.

 

[steve863]

Excluding the mocking part, the guy who only shoots 140's shouldn't be made to feel bad either. It goes both ways. The attack on the horn hunter on this site is disappointing. Like some how the meat hunter is the only real way to do it.

 

 

 

I don't see an attack on horn hunters at all here.  Only point some of us are making is that horns are not what motivates us to hunt.  You guys have a hard time believing it for some bizarre reason.  People like Four Seasons tries to bring this horn factor up in thread after thread.  To him horns are obviously everything along with a source of income and he can't fathom anyone else thinking differently.  What else can we tell you guys?  Should we tell you that you guys are right and that we are wrong and stupid just to make you feel good??

[Five Seasons]

Phase says bow hunters aren't enough, and that is true today, but 10 years ago, they would of been if bowhunters shot doe,simple truth is most didn't and now numbers are out of wack ( I don't care what target number is now) thus enter the crossbow, and soon if bow hunters do now step up muzzleloader. Yes bow hunters will not stem the population now but look at it as a retraining of mind set, shoot does control population... being beat into your head instead of waiting for a buck, ar coming for same reason, shoot doe,can't shoot little buck so shoot more doe. That's all dec wants, now you see the mind retraining beginning.

 

Am I missing the part where "10 years ago" the gun hunter didn't have the opportunity to shoot doe as well? Why is it the bow hunters fault? You DMP's were just as good as mine...

 

and frankly I'm pissed at the anti-bow hunter nonsense in this thread. We're all gun hunters too. We in fact spend probably 2 to 3 times what a gun hunter spends in the woods. So I should be made to feel bad for wanting a nice buck? I drop a doe with the smoke pole and because I didn't fling an expensive arrow and bh at a doe it somehow matters when and with what I did to harvest the doe?

 

[Five Seasons]

I don't see an attack on horn hunters at all here.  Only point some of us are making is that horns are not what motivates us to hunt.  You guys have a hard time believing it for some bizarre reason.  People like Four Seasons tries to bring this horn factor up in thread after thread.  To him horns are obviously everything along with a source of income and he can't fathom anyone else thinking differently.  What else can we tell you guys?  Should we tell you that you guys are right and that we are wrong and stupid just to make you feel good??

 

I do believe you, I just think you're in the minority. It may not be the number 1 driver for all hunters. It's not even for me. But to believe they do not matter at all to the majority of hunters I believe is false.

[wolc123]

I live and hunt in that area of Western NY which they are making "doe only" for the first couple weeks of archery. I like the change because I gave up those weeks of archery season anyhow, after seeing how much more effective the crossbow was. As a pure "meat-hunter, I slightly prefer to shoot bucks, as they are easier and quicker to butcher, with much less fat to trim, and taste the same or better than does. This will improve my odds of taking a buck after x-bow season opens by eliminating some time for the "early-bird" archery hunters to go after them. We are in serious need of herd reduction here, so I hope they are able to clean out some does early.

Taking a doe around here with a vertical bow is a real challenge as they are almost always in groups and many sets of eyes must be fooled to draw with them in close. Those archers have an uphill climb. I cant see them getting the job done, and the state will likely be forced to open x-bow throughout and/or add a couple weeks of early ML if they really want to get the population under control in this area.

The only part I am not thrilled about is making the ML season "doe-only". That will force me to be less selective on bucks when they are legal, during crossbow and gun seasons, so I don't end up with "tag-soup". Definitely more positives than negatives with the changes however and it is getting me excited about the fall. We are down to about one big buck left in the freezer now from last year, so it cant get here too fast. The smallmouth bass fishing has been productive however, and I will soon have a few weeks to augment the food supply even more with some squirrels and grouse.

Edited August 6, 2015 by wolc123

[jjb4900]

Excluding the mocking part, the guy who only shoots 140's shouldn't be made to feel bad either. It goes both ways. The attack on the horn hunter on this site is disappointing. Like some how the meat hunter is the only real way to do it.

 

seriously, how could you make a guy, who holds out for and only kills big bucks, feel bad? I've never seen it....what are you gonna say to him "maybe one day when you learn how to hunt you can start killing yearlings"? on the other hand I've seen other hunters make derogatory remarks to total strangers about the small deer they've killed.......I have nothing but respect for the real trophy hunter, more power to him, But too often that's the same guy who'll look down his nose at the guy with the 1.5 year old buck because he killed the next potential trophy.........if you can show me otherwise, please do.

[Larry]

don't call me anti-bow I'm taking off almost all of November to bow hunt and I will shot 120 to 140 class buck but I will pass on bucks during gun season unless its bigger than the one I shot in bow. just to let you know the last time I shot 2 bucks in the same year was 2004

[wooly]

I have to admit, I was a little shocked to see my area in 9h go unaffected, but I think last years bad ass winter saved us with a mass doe/fawn winterkill.

Or maybe the coyotes are doing a better job than I gave them credit for....

After seriously reading every post in this thread, I think some of you are having a hard time seeing past the deer under your stand no matter what the sex or how many are there at one time.

Absolutely I think this was the wrong way to go about (start) getting things under control, but I'm sure this is only the beginning.

 

Regardless of your preferred weapon of choice, changes needed to be made, and they started at the bottom of the totem pole. Eventually they will make their way to the top with new changes and EVERYONE will feel like they're being crapped on equally the same.

Just wait and see....but don't be surprised when it these management plans roll over into gun seasons as well.

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

I live and hunt in that area of Western NY which they are making "doe only" for the first couple weeks of archery. I like the change because I gave up those weeks of archery season anyhow, after seeing how much more effective the crossbow was. As a pure "meat-hunter, I slightly prefer to shoot bucks, as they are easier and quicker to butcher, with much less fat to trim, and taste the same or better than does. This will improve my odds of taking a buck after x-bow season opens by eliminating some time for the "early-bird" archery hunters to go after them. We are in serious need of herd reduction here, so I hope they are able to clean out some does early.

Taking a doe around here with a vertical bow is a real challenge as they are almost always in groups and many sets of eyes must be fooled to draw with them in close. Those archers have an uphill climb. I cant see them getting the job done, and the state will likely be forced to open x-bow throughout and/or add a couple weeks of early ML if they really want to get the population under control in this area.

The only part I am not thrilled about is making the ML season "doe-only". That will force me to be less selective on bucks when they are legal, during crossbow and gun seasons, so I don't end up with "tag-soup". Definitely more positives than negatives with the changes however and it is getting me excited about the fall. We are down to about one big buck left in the freezer now from last year, so it cant get here too fast. The smallmouth bass fishing has been productive however, and I will soon have a few weeks to augment the food supply even more with some squirrels and grouse.

 

If your crossbow is so effective and easy, with all the does running around, there should be no reason for you to be less selective and eat tag soup. You should be knocking down does like crazy.

[jjb4900]

If your crossbow is so effective and easy, with all the does running around, there should be no reason for you to be less selective and eat tag soup. You should be knocking down does like crazy.

um, they're harder to butcher....did you miss that?

[Five Seasons]

I have to admit, I was a little shocked to see my area in 9h go unaffected, but I think last years bad ass winter saved us with a mass doe/fawn winterkill.

Or maybe the coyotes are doing a better job than I gave them credit for....

After seriously reading every post in this thread, I think some of you are having a hard time seeing past the deer under your stand no matter what the sex or how many are there at one time.

Absolutely I think this was the wrong way to go about (start) getting things under control, but I'm sure this is only the beginning.

 

Regardless of your preferred weapon of choice, changes needed to be made, and they started at the bottom of the totem pole. Eventually they will make their way to the top with new changes and EVERYONE will feel like they're being crapped on equally the same.

Just wait and see....but don't be surprised when it these management plans roll over into gun seasons as well.

 

In my 15+ years hunting deer in NY I have seen the archery rules and regs be changed 4 times. The single and only change to gun season was to move it up to start on the weekend. So I'll believe they will touch the sacred gun season when I see it.