Can they survive?

[Taylormike]

I don't know how to start this topic. Every bow season, we all hear stories of a less than ideal shot placement.  Regardless of the factors, it happens from time to time.  Many of us, post our honest mishaps on these social sites.  This allows us to live the experience through each other.  

I have been reading a lot of, " well, I didn't recover him but he'll probably survive."  Although I'm not judging and love the optimism I just feel we (I) need clarification. I personally feel most deer will die from an arrow hit, even non vitals.   I understand it happens but just how common.  My Dad even shot one during gun that had a broken arrow shaft in it.  Please, if you can shed any light please do so.  I'm 35, I have taken about 30-40 deer, I never once noticed a previous shot deer.  I've lost 5 and I never saw them again, camera or harvesting.  Next time I see my processor, I'll ask him what he's found.  Sorry for the long post, this is strictly for informational and educational purposes.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Taylormike

[Zag]

I think they are alot tougher than people believe.

I shot a nice buck a few yrs back during bow. I shot high right above any vitals. Had decent blood the first hundred or so yards then went cold. I had him on trail cam 9 days later and all you could see was the missing patch of hair above the shoulder. My brother shot a buck one gun season and while gutting it he got poked by a broad head  in the ribcage. Again way tougher than people give them credit for. 

[Lawdwaz]

I think more survive than die from what I've seen.  The slice of an arrow (and not at all to diminish it) would be easier to recover from than the damage from a CF bullet or deer slug.  I'll pass on being the guinea pig on either one though.....

Guts, liver etc are for sure dead deer but some other non vital areas I think can be survivable.

[Taylormike]

I would definitely agree a lot tougher than we can imagine.  I would have thought most died and the occasional deer survived.  Truth is, we never hear about the ones that succumb, we always hear about the one that had a broadhead imbedded in the bone.

[wolc123]

I killed one with a shotgun, that had an arrow pass thru just above the spine and the broadhead was stuck under the hide on the exit side, when I skinned him.  The buck appeared perfectly healthy when I shot him.  He was hot on the trail of a doe I had just killed and actually standing over her dead body when I dropped him next to her.   I trimmed out a few chops near the wound, but it did not look infected (probably a week old wound), and he probably would have recovered.  Arrows cut very clean compared to lead bullets.

I struck another large buck in the shoulder blade with an arrow when he jumped the string.  A friend took him with a shotgun several weeks later and the wound was all healed up with just a big scar on the stricken shoulder.  

Based on these experiences, I think that most recover when struck above the vitals.   Gut hits are far less common, and certainly always fatal.     Just looking at the lost deer folks are posting on this site this year, and the past few seasons, it seems like the vast majority are high, above the spine or shoulder hits, and almost all of them will likely survive. 

The reason for most of these high hits is string jump, caused by shooting at deer that are alert because they caught a glimpse of the draw, or responded to a grunt call or rattle.   If someone feels the need to shoot at an alert deer (I will not do it again personally), I would advise aiming at the bottom part of the heart  (about 4" up from the bottom of the deer, behind the shoulder).   If he does not jump, you get a heart shot, If he goes down hard, you will get a high-lung hit - and a very dead, easily recovered deer in either case. 

 

[New York Hillbilly]

I'm not going to get on here and say how many deer I have killed and/or lost over the years. I will say however, the killed category has been many, and the lost few, but even those few lost were too many as far as I'm concerned. Every bit as troubling is the extreme numbers of deer I have found dead on my property, shot and unrecovered since 1991. 

At the end of the day, gun or bow,  it comes down to shot placement. We can try and convince ourselves all day that deer will live when we blow it, or can't find them after shooting them, if it makes us feel better, but it doesn't change the reality.

As I said before, bad things happen under the best circumstances, but I'm convinced that in most cases, and it applies to me too, when it has gone wrong, it is something the shooter did or did not do, not the deer.

If we are to learn from our mistakes we need to own them, and not make excuses or seek comfort from others telling us we are OK, and the deer will be OK too!

   

 

 

[Adkhunter1590]

They can survive some pretty intense damage. I've seen broad heads pulled from deer that have appeared to have had the broad head in there for at least a year or two. Surviving a gun shot is a little more rare as far as my personal experience has been. But it's known to happen.

Here's a pic I came across on FB the other day. I think the story was a bad bow shot and buck is still alive to this day supposedly. It is a FB story so who knows. But the carnage is severe and it's still alive in this pic at least



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[wooly]

3 hours ago, New York Hillbilly said:

If we are to learn from our mistakes we need to own them, and not make excuses or seek comfort from others telling us we are OK, and the deer will be OK too!

 

I like this.

I know sometimes guys honestly post about their losses to try to find that one clue that may have been overlooked that leads to recovery of their deer. Newbies often need some tips or pointers on what to do next, and I have no issues with anyone pointing them in the right direction.

 

Problem I got with "lost deer" threads is when I see them posted by experienced hunters who already know what they're up against and the steps they need to take next if they truly want to recover that animal.

Too many times I read some of those posts and it sounds like guys are looking for "partial credit" for ALMOST killing a nice buck.

As soon as they get their pat on the back from everyone for the initial encounter and opportunity, they're content to say "it happens to everyone" and it's time to move on. That closure is usually all it takes to call off a search and ends any learning that was left on the table for future recovery jobs.

More effort into recovery, and less time on the keyboard will increase your odds.

 

I don't think at this point I'd ever make a post about a lost deer anymore. As a matter of fact, I wont even make a post about a direct hit until I recover that animal even when I know in my heart it's a dead deer, no "if's", "ands",  or "but's" about it. I've been on the trail of a few deer that I got a "solid hit" on, only for them to never turn up until AFTER everyone told me it was gonna be alright and those things happen.

It hasn't happened to me in a good number of years, and I'm very happy about that, but should it happen again one day, ALL my energy will go into the steps I need to take to recover that deer until I MYSELF truly believe it's time to call off a search..... not posting here just to talk about it to make me feel better.

 

Yup- bad shots DO happen, but you can't  follow them up with a piss poor recovery effort or they will most often end in a bad way every time!

[Doc]

I'm not in love with posting "lost deer" threads. I don't believe there is a much to be learned from them that will prevent them from happening in the future. Also publicizing wounding or loss of shot deer really seems unnecessary to me when we don't really know who is monitoring these sites and making use of such examples for anti-hunting purposes. I just don't see the purpose of such stories. Yes, it does happen, but I can't see anything beneficial about advertising those unhappy results to the entire world.

[The_Real_TCIII]

A friend of mine shot a deer with his recurve way back right through the gut. The arrow stayed in and was sticking out both sides. That deer was killed ONE WEEK later on opening day of gun by another guy in camp! They said it was the worst smelling field dressing experience of all time


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[TreeGuy]

They can survive some pretty intense damage. I've seen broad heads pulled from deer that have appeared to have had the broad head in there for at least a year or two. Surviving a gun shot is a little more rare as far as my personal experience has been. But it's known to happen.

Here's a pic I came across on FB the other day. I think the story was a bad bow shot and buck is still alive to this day supposedly. It is a FB story so who knows. But the carnage is severe and it's still alive in this pic at least



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See, they can survive cannonball wounds.

[Marion]

They can survive some pretty intense damage. I've seen broad heads pulled from deer that have appeared to have had the broad head in there for at least a year or two. Surviving a gun shot is a little more rare as far as my personal experience has been. But it's known to happen.

Here's a pic I came across on FB the other day. I think the story was a bad bow shot and buck is still alive to this day supposedly. It is a FB story so who knows. But the carnage is severe and it's still alive in this pic at least



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Poor deer

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[Doewhacker]

4 hours ago, wooly said:

 

 

Yup- bad shots DO happen, but you can't  follow them up with a piss poor recovery effort or they will most often end in a bad way every time!

100% True right there. The tracking abilities need to be there to recover these deer and sometimes it is clear that some guys do not have those skills developed. Lack of experience leads to not knowing where the shot went, not knowing when to back out, not recognizing the type of blood and unfortunately not recovering the deer or worse yet giving up too easily. It is too bad more time isn't spent on learning tracking, nearly all resources go to getting the set up needed to get the shot and not the recovery. 

[dbHunterNY]

a full grown healthy adult deer isn't nearly as likely to get eaten by a predator.  if I hit one with a non fatal shot, there's a good chance I've made it bait and made it a real possibility to get eaten alive.  it's nature, but it still doesn't sit well.

I shoot a few deer or more a year for quite a while now just myself.  Now that DMAPS are called in and reported differently it'll show up on paper too.  I've done, helped, or seen lots of other deer processed too.  only shot where vitals have been hit that I've known lived was a single lung hit from an arrow low at a steep angle.  the thick bottom of the chest cavity plugged up and clotted.  the side hole in the rib cage got plugged from the popped lung or some kind of tissue, dried up a bit and clotted.  any other deer we've eventually found, or we didn't see it again and didn't hear of anyone in the area getting it.

I've seen deer hit in the shoulder, leg, high back backstraps (above and clear of intestines), in the nasal passage (150gr, 30-06 round), and in the neck.  all those lived to the point they were fine, as in didn't die.

I've known of lot of deer getting hit in the neck or hind quarter that hit an artery and bled right out.  some don't make it 50 yards and others go a long way until they have barely any blood left.  some of those were initially thought to be lost deer from the start, that turned into recovered deer.

that's my experience.

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

A friend of mine shot a deer with his recurve way back right through the gut. The arrow stayed in and was sticking out both sides. That deer was killed ONE WEEK later on opening day of gun by another guy in camp! They said it was the worst smelling field dressing experience of all time


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that deer would've eventually died.  good someone else got it before it suffered even more.

[Taylormike]

Not a fun topic, but at least we are getting some real stories. Doewhacker, you're right, tracking is probably the most important aspect.  Good point...

33 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

100% True right there. The tracking abilities need to be there to recover these deer and sometimes it is clear that some guys do not have those skills developed. Lack of experience leads to not knowing where the shot went, not knowing when to back out, not recognizing the type of blood and unfortunately not recovering the deer or worse yet giving up too easily. It is too bad more time isn't spent on learning tracking, nearly all resources go to getting the set up needed to get the shot and not the recovery. 

 

[Jmp209]

I've killed 2 deer that were previously wounded by other hunters. One I'm sure would have survived but the other I think would have died a slow, painful death. Both cases were also very avoidable in my opinion. The first was a spike that I shot on the third day of rifle season with a whole arrow sticking straight out the rear end. I can only assume someone took a hail Mary, Texas heart shot on the last day or so of archery just to fill a tag. That one I think would have eventually died from infection. The other was a doe that had a mushroomed bullet just under the skin in the flank. Another assumption but I'm guessing someone didn't look beyond their target and got a pass through shot on the first deer and hit the second. Or they thought they could get 2 with one shot. Either way both were unethical shots in my book.

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[remi1100]

I shot this deer last year on the last day of gun. It came past me and seemed to be leaning to the right. The deer did not look healthy and I put it down. When I butchered it, it had about 6 inches of arrow in it but no broadhead. It appeared to have been shot the previous year as it healed over. These deer are definelty tougher than we think 

[Larry]

This is a video from last year. this the first time I have ever seen a hit deer with an arrow sticking out of it. I do not know where the deer was shot. It may have come from the other side of the road.

MFDC0062.AVI

[NFA-ADK]

Dam it tree guy I told you to put that cannon away! 

On a serous note they are amazing survivors capable of sustaining a multitude of issues and injuries. 

One of the most adaptable survivalist in the animal kingdom!  Amazing creatures! 

[Taylormike]

18 hours ago, Larry said:

This is a video from last year. this the first time I have ever seen a hit deer with an arrow sticking out of it. I do not know where the deer was shot. It may have come from the other side of the road.

MFDC0062.AVI

Couldn't open video but interested.

[NFA-ADK]

Wow I could see the arrow stuck in him, owch.  This is a pic from a buck taken on Saturday.  This wound was just behind the shoulders this is a top view.  Looks like a high hit.  Misjudge of distance, bad shot or the buck ducked the arrow.  Second pic is the actual kill shot.

[Buckstopshere]

Deer are amazingly tough. Just talk to a whitetail taxidermist. I have cut up a couple hundred deer and it is not uncommon to find a broadhead, or other old wounds in a deer. Some break their legs and get hit by cars...and they still heal.  They can really take a hit. They are a lot tougher than we are.

[wheelieman]

On 10/31/2016 at 10:45 PM, wolc123 said:

I killed one with a shotgun, that had an arrow pass thru just above the spine and the broadhead was stuck under the hide on the exit side, when I skinned him.  The buck appeared perfectly healthy when I shot him.  He was hot on the trail of a doe I had just killed and actually standing over her dead body when I dropped him next to her.   I trimmed out a few chops near the wound, but it did not look infected (probably a week old wound), and he probably would have recovered.  Arrows cut very clean compared to lead bullets.

I struck another large buck in the shoulder blade with an arrow when he jumped the string.  A friend took him with a shotgun several weeks later and the wound was all healed up with just a big scar on the stricken shoulder.  

Based on these experiences, I think that most recover when struck above the vitals.   Gut hits are far less common, and certainly always fatal.     Just looking at the lost deer folks are posting on this site this year, and the past few seasons, it seems like the vast majority are high, above the spine or shoulder hits, and almost all of them will likely survive. 

The reason for most of these high hits is string jump, caused by shooting at deer that are alert because they caught a glimpse of the draw, or responded to a grunt call or rattle.   If someone feels the need to shoot at an alert deer (I will not do it again personally), I would advise aiming at the bottom part of the heart  (about 4" up from the bottom of the deer, behind the shoulder).   If he does not jump, you get a heart shot, If he goes down hard, you will get a high-lung hit - and a very dead, easily recovered deer in either case. 

 

I tend too always aim for the lower third, Since starting this paractice ive seen every single deer ive shot go down within sight,

[Hock3y24]

i shot a doe with 2 broken healed stiff legs one year, she looked like a pirate, but was healthy otherwise.