Shooting old does vs young

[travisrage]

Is their a benefit to killing one vs the othe other? Im thinking kill old does cause they are smarter?

Not sure on taste or anything with how old vs young does are bred . Im talking 1.5/2.5 vs 4.5 plus

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[wolc123]

I always shoot the largest antlerless deer first, as opportunities present themselves, without worry of age.  On average through the years, about 25% have been button bucks.   The only "sorting" I do involves antlered bucks, where I pass the occasional smaller 1.5 year olds early in the seasons.   My goal is the same every year - maximize the pounds of venison harvested.  I have never had enough chances on does to look for an older or younger one.   If I did, I would look to harvest those that are 1-1/2 because they are a little tastier than the older ones.  

This year I did pass a "chip-shot" on one big, older doe during early Northern-zone ML, because I had used my "antlerless tag" on a 1-1/2 year old doe the day prior (see ML harvest thread) and would have had to use my "ether/or" tag on another doe.  That turned out well, as I was able to cash that tag in on a 2-1/2 year buck during the Southern-zone crossbow season (see crossbow harvest thread).    I have also used two of my four Southern zone DMP's on a button buck and a 3-1/2 year doe.   I hope to use the other two by this Sunday with my crossbow, but I don't expect I will.  The 5 deer in our freezer now are plenty for us, so any more I harvest will get donated.  There is still way too many deer around here in zone 9F, so "being fussy" and not filling tags is not doing anyone any good.        

[Doc]

I guess I have always taken the biggest deer when given a choice. But I guess when you think of it, the older does are the one that are more likely to be bred. They are also the one that are most likely to survive a hard winter. So if you are trying to reduce the herd as the DEC is trying to do in our area, the best way to achieve that should be to shoot the older more successful breeders. If the herd is in need of expanded numbers, shoot neither, or shoot the younger antlerless deer.

Or you can do like I do and shoot whichever offers the best high percentage shot......lol.

[Curmudgeon]

I am actively trying to reduce the population so the older, experienced breeders are better for that goal. That said, some of the best venison I have ever eaten was from 1 1/2 year old does.

[stoneam2006]

I am actively trying to reduce the population so the older, experienced breeders are better for that goal. That said, some of the best venison I have ever eaten was from 1 1/2 year old does.

This is exactly opposite the trophy guys will try and argue. Everyone complains about shooting smaller deer when in fact (my opinion lol) you are doing the herd a favor by allowing the middle age proven breeders to continue breeding as they have already successfully demonstrated they can do. When the population needs help I think taking younger deer would allow the proven mammas to produce. Otherwise you take the risk of having her offspring being barron or sterile and unable/unwilling to get the job done. Just my .02

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[NFA-ADK]

We do not shoot the older deer for the most part.  We notice when you shoot the Moma doe the fawns tend to disperse from the area.  Older doe tend to have smaller home ranges and will tend to keep the new fawns in the area making it easy to keep the numbers down by taking the younger doe.  By keeping the older doe with a known pattern you will have a more consistent travel path to hunt that her offspring will follow.

[growalot]

You can seriously mess up your hunting grounds by taking out the wrong older doe...She is the teacher...and if she taught them to follow her on a regular route through and around your place...taking her out can take out the others as well ,as it were...for the next lead doe usually will have other travel routes...Ever notice two mature doe standing on their hind legs fighting...it's territory...I always strive to shoot a BIG doe...but not all big doe are matriarchs. You have to observe them and how they are grouped...

Edited December 17, 2016 by growalot

[ncountry]

44 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

.  By keeping the older doe with a known pattern you will have a more consistent travel path to hunt that her offspring will follow.

 I had a slam dunk spot. Killed close to 1/2 dozen 2 1/2 year old bucks on the same date around the same time for many years in a row.. I contributed this to the same doe coming into entrusted at the same time every year with a buck in tow..

The area dried up. I assume she died..Maybe this wasn't the case , but it seemed likely.

This said, I usually  try to kill the largest/oldest doe... I shot a huge doe last year, bigger than most bucks I have ever shot. I am sure she was over 180#s. I felt a little sad. She had survived many hunting seasons to get that large...

[Zag]

I usually pass up the big mature doe and find the one that's not to small and not to big. I think they taste a little better and I want the mature doe for breeding. The mature bucks know where to find them.

[Fletch]

1 hour ago, growalot said:

You can seriously mess up your hunting grounds by taking out the wrong older doe...She is the teacher...and if she taught them to follow her on a regular route through and around your place...taking her out can take out the others as well ,as it were...for the next lead doe usually will have other travel routes...Ever notice two mature doe standing on their hind legs fighting...it's territory...I always strive to shoot a BIG doe...but not all big doe are matriarchs. You have to observe them and how they are grouped...

Been there done that! You are exactly right. I shot the big momma matrirch out behind the house 6-7 years ago. Man did that change the deer patterns.

[ATbuckhunter]

I like to pass the mature does and go for the 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 year old deer. This year I took a nice old doe, but she was completely alone with no others behind her. The way I see it, your taking out a good parent if you take out an old doe. Im not looking to do population control so I like to have a doe that is spitting out 2 fawn a year. I also think the younger ones taste better so Ill enjoy them more. 

[ncountry]

This thread has definitelynd made me rethink my choice in which doe to shoot.  Kinda  like bass fishing I look at the 12-14" bass as the eaters all the rest are either too big or too small. Maybe the optimal doe would be 1.5 to 2.5 years old...

[pt0217]

Been there done that! You are exactly right. I shot the big momma matrirch out behind the house 6-7 years ago. Man did that change the deer patterns.

Had a similar experience. Area I hunted had a matriarch doe lead the herd in every night. There were always good bucks that would cruise through that area. Problem started when she would peg me when she came in. She would blow and screw the whole woods up. I decided to shoot her and the woods haven't been the same since. I never see good bucks in that spot and as grow said the pattern shifted.

[GreeneHunter]

Unfortunately I shoot a deer depending on how much meat it will produce .... nothing more nothing less !

[Larry]

First thing I would ask is what do you consider an old doe?

The next thing I would ask is how do you tell how old a doe is without looking at the teeth. You can’t use size that can vary considerably unless you are looking at fawns. You can’t use whether or not a doe has fawns or not 25% of all fawns born in the spring will have fawns next spring. Saying it looks old is just a guess. So all you can do to age a doe on the hoof is take a WAG.

[phade]

I try to avoid taking alpha doe, especially in areas where I know bucks will routinely visit in rut phases.

I try to do the goldilocks approach - not young not old...just right, to avoid that. If there is no middle age, I will purposely shoot the yearling. Only time an alpha needs to go IMO is herd reduction of massive proportions (meaning you have several alphas on your ground) or she's flat out busting your setups.

I will avoid otherwise. I've seen what it can do to patterns and corresponding buck movements. No thanks.


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[phade]

First thing I would ask is what do you consider an old doe?

The next thing I would ask is how do you tell how old a doe is without looking at the teeth. You can’t use size that can vary considerably unless you are looking at fawns. You can’t use whether or not a doe has fawns or not 25% of all fawns born in the spring will have fawns next spring. Saying it looks old is just a guess. So all you can do to age a doe on the hoof is take a WAG.

Older does have longer skeletal structures - including facial and body. They too get back and belly sag.

Not that hard to determine alpha either by behavior.

And your stat on 25% is generalized because the real factor is weight - threshold of 60-65lbs. Areas with ag, food, and good soil CEC without overcarrying capacity will have a higher % of fawns bred.

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[JRod 8G8H]

depends on the hunting pressure, I have a crowded county so an old doe may be 3.5... I try and let does go but if one doe in particular knows where my stands are or are constantly blowing out the woods she needs to go!!

[Zag]

8 minutes ago, Jared A said:

depends on the hunting pressure, I have a crowded county so an old doe may be 3.5... I try and let does go but if one doe in particular knows where my stands are or are constantly blowing out the woods she needs to go!!

Yeah those are the ones that have caught me a few times over the years during bow season, they snort a thousand time and I wish it was gun season so I could shut her up!

[dbHunterNY]

17 hours ago, Larry said:

First thing I would ask is what do you consider an old doe?

The next thing I would ask is how do you tell how old a doe is without looking at the teeth. You can’t use size that can vary considerably unless you are looking at fawns. You can’t use whether or not a doe has fawns or not 25% of all fawns born in the spring will have fawns next spring. Saying it looks old is just a guess. So all you can do to age a doe on the hoof is take a WAG.

anything 4.5 yrs and older. typically what i try to shoot for but anything 1.5+ years old is fair game.  oldest one i took was something over 8.5 yrs old.   in hind sight i should've kept her whole jaw bone and sent in incisors.  for years i've been curious to know a more exact age.  not all doe are the same size for the same age.  i've seen them differ by 50 lbs.  skeletal proportions, other physical characteristics like that square flat brisket, and what they're doing give you a decent idea of them being relatively older or younger. this season i've taken doe that range from 3.5-4.5 yrs old.  a little lower than normal for me.  they were actually not as heavy but all carried fawns.  shot early enough in the season and they all were not dry but producing milk.  i passed an older doe this season with a rifle on opening day.  she and her fawn call the pocket of timber home that my stand was in.  both were abnormally heavy.  she sat down wind for over an hour within bow range.  was alert but never blew or ran off any other deer.  different doe came into my set and did everything possible to figure things out and make a fuss.  she didn't make out so well.  i can't expect to breed weight and stupidity but what the heck.  i'm sure it doesn't hurt.

[dbHunterNY]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:34 PM, travisrage said:

 

Is their a benefit to killing one vs the othe other? Im thinking kill old does cause they are smarter?

Not sure on taste or anything with how old vs young does are bred . Im talking 1.5/2.5 vs 4.5 plus

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i've taken doe over 8.5 years old to as young as 1.5 years old  with a doe taste/meat seems to be minimally different as long as they're both healthy and not healing from injury or something.  i'm with some others about disruption of doe family groups patterns using your property by shooting certain matriarch doe where you shouldn't.  for population control any adult doe is fair game but know you're basically trying to lower the average doe harvest age with the assumption that it falls in line with quantities of what age doe are available to shoot.  if a particular doe on a pattern is always busting you despite changing up your hunting and stand locations a little.  it'll improve your hunting to take her so other deer can come in relaxed, not the same way or from the same spot she came in to bust you.

[chas0218]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:34 PM, travisrage said:

 

Is their a benefit to killing one vs the othe other? Im thinking kill old does cause they are smarter?

Not sure on taste or anything with how old vs young does are bred . Im talking 1.5/2.5 vs 4.5 plus

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The bigger the more meat so for me yes. I would rather take 1 big doe than need to take 2 small doe.