My take on antler restrictions

[upstatehunter]

Im seeing more and more push for this......i truely believe it is more wanting to brag about a huge rack then to see a buck have time to live and not die at a year old.....i have come to this conclusion by not seeing any of these people care if a doe is killed at a year old.....why just a buck and not a doe.....i say its just to have something to hold and brag.......greed is the end result....not meat or the excitement of hunting 

[Matthewsshooter]

Sure there are some for bragging, there are some for personal achievement, some like to watch them grow.  Your take is simply your opinion means more than theirs. Pointless thread

[upstatehunter]

15 minutes ago, Matthewsshooter said:

Sure there are some for bragging, there are some for personal achievement, some like to watch them grow.  Your take is simply your opinion means more than theirs. Pointless thread

The point is why does the life of the buck matter and not a doe.....

[grampy]

It will have no bearing, either way, on how I hunt now. As I "CHOOSE" to not kill small bucks. But I do agree with you. As I only see this being driven, by the need of some hunters to hold a larger set of antlers in their hands. With no consideration whatsoever, of the hunter, who just wants to hunt a deer. What comes next? Pass a law that every hunter MUST hunt with a 30-06, because it's the BEST all around deer cartridge? Sounds crazy right? Well so does this legislation thats trying to be cramed down our throats. We all buy our tags. Let us all have a choice of what we want to shoot, based on experience, time available to hunt, access to private or state land. Or the hunter who just wants some meat for the freezer. There are plenty of two year old, and older deer out there, in just about every corner of this state. Go hunt them!!! You don't need new legislation to do so!

[G-Man]

Think on this .. The only person who can ask for a restriction is one that has never shot a buck below that size restriction.. To take experiences away from others that your self has enjoyed and learned from is just greed.. 

Don't say well kids are exempt..what if your spouse decided to take up hunting. Not a kid but You want to see them become hooked but they do not see a legal deer and when/if they do is is a large one and they miss and give up hunting.. 

My sister in law got her 1st deer ever a 6pt that would not be legal in this area under current proposal. She could not of shot it as she's mid 40's Just starting hunting.. Her kids daughter specifically would not be impressed with her and want to grow up and be like mom a hunter.. 

[Dinsdale]

Ya....why is that? Does got feelings too. Sure all you hunters care about is antlers.

Doe lives matter!

[Matthewsshooter]

21 minutes ago, upstatehunter said:

The point is why does the life of the buck matter and not a doe.....

It doesn't, most I know who hunt mature bucks don't shoot little deer period.  Already laws as to what can and can't use grampy

[The_Real_TCIII]

I've killed a whole lot of deer, small bucks big bucks button bucks and all ages of does. I still kill a small buck once in a while if the mood strikes me. If AR came along I'd be fine with it, ok I have to pass 1.5 year old bucks no problem. But I absolutely hate making someone else who maybe only gets to hunt one weekend or just wants their freezer filled pass on a deer they want so I can kill a bigger buck next year. Same for a new hunter, a kid, whoever. I think it sucks to be honest with you. I also think we have plenty of mature bucks to hunt. Who here that puts in their time doesn't get their eyes on at least one every year?? Other than that I have no opinion on the subject.


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[Lawdwaz]

Well said TC3

[sailinghudson25]

Ok.  Local towns farmland, might be tougher for some.

What about public land, the catskill and Adirondack mountains too.  It's tough enough with not shooting does, not loggin to improve hsbitat, now you want to make someone pass a small buck.......

State forests will be deserted.  Folks who havery trouble finding good land to hunt will quit.

 

Then what about the country folk.  Them city folk ain't telling me what to do.

 

I've seen it already folks just aren't buying into the legal thing.  Not buying tags, shooting whatever because someone made an arbitrary law that does what.....  

Nysdec, if you can't offer DMP tags or close an are to doe muzzleloading, what sense does antler restriction have.....

[stubby68]

2 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I've killed a whole lot of deer, small bucks big bucks button bucks and all ages of does. I still kill a small buck once in a while if the mood strikes me. If AR came along I'd be fine with it, ok I have to pass 1.5 year old bucks no problem. But I absolutely hate making someone else who maybe only gets to hunt one weekend or just wants their freezer filled pass on a deer they want so I can kill a bigger buck next year. Same for a new hunter, a kid, whoever. I think it sucks to be honest with you. I also think we have plenty of mature bucks to hunt. Who here that puts in their time doesn't get their eyes on at least one every year?? Other than that I have no opinion on the subject.


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I agree with you but It really does not make you pass 1.5 year olds. There are more then a few 6, 8, and 10 point 1.5 year olds out there. All it does is make a few guys happy that others have to hunt the way they do.

[wolc123]

14 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

I agree with you but It really does not make you pass 1.5 year olds. There are more then a few 6, 8, and 10 point 1.5 year olds out there. All it does is make a few guys happy that others have to hunt the way they do.

It might slow folks down, making them more sure of their target, and what is beyond, before shooting.  I would feel a safer in the woods if there were AR's in place, especially if there was no exemption for young or first time hunters.   Most hunters have not had their hair parted by a slug like I have, so I understand your reluctance.   Up in the northern zone, where hunter density is low, I could take AR's or leave them.   In the Southern zone, they might just result in a significant decrease in hunting accidents.   I am far more concerned with keeping hunters safe than the size of the antlers or the health of the herd. 

It is not that difficult to understand why a "brown-down" hunter, in possession of a buck and doe tag, is a bit more dangerous than one who must be sure of his or her target before shooting.    Since there seems to be about the same number of people for and against AR's, maybe the best solution would be a compromise.  Something like AR's the first two weeks of bow season and gun season would be a good place to start. 

 

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

It might slow folks down, making them more sure of their target, and what is beyond, before shooting.  I would feel a safer in the woods if there were AR's in place, especially if there was no exemption for young or first time hunters.   Most hunters have not had their hair parted by a slug like I have, so I understand your reluctance.   Up in the northern zone, where hunter density is low, I could take AR's or leave them.   In the Southern zone, they might just result in a significant decrease in hunting accidents.   I am far more concerned with keeping hunters safe than the size of the antlers or the health of the herd. 

It is not that difficult to understand why a "brown-down" hunter, in possession of a buck and doe tag, is a bit more dangerous than one who must be sure of his or her target before shooting.    Since there seems to be about the same number of people for and against AR's, maybe the best solution would be a compromise.  Something like AR's the first two weeks of bow season and gun season would be a good place to start. 

 

I have had more then one close call. That is why I hunt my own land and am very hard on tresspassing. You say you are conserned more with keeping hunters safe then the size of the antlers but if this passes the main focuse would be on the size of the antlers.AR could make things worse. A hunter will be more focused on the antlers to make sure it is legal and less focused on what is the other side of that deer. If they can just shoot now and not worry about the points yet some still do not look at anything but the deer why would you think making them worry about  the number of points would make them see more then just the deer? Heck it could cause more hunters to look more at the deer and less at what is beyond.  Makein  in it more dangerous. I am not saying it will but that is what is more likely to happen. Haveing to take time to count points takes time away from them looking at the back ground and might make for more snap shots after the count hits the required number of points to be legal. I know most of us already take the time to make a safe shot but we also know there many who do not. Make in them focus on the number of points could make that worse. Just pointing to the other side of the safety issue you mention.

[Doc]

8 hours ago, upstatehunter said:

Im seeing more and more push for this......i truely believe it is more wanting to brag about a huge rack then to see a buck have time to live and not die at a year old.....i have come to this conclusion by not seeing any of these people care if a doe is killed at a year old.....why just a buck and not a doe.....i say its just to have something to hold and brag.......greed is the end result....not meat or the excitement of hunting 

It is curious that nobody worries about allowing does to become one of those prolific fawn producers who pop out the stronger, healthier, twins and triplets. Why is it that nobody seems to worry about preserving does into the old matriarch category?

[First-light]

26 minutes ago, Doc said:

It is curious that nobody worries about allowing does to become one of those prolific fawn producers who pop out the stronger, healthier, twins and triplets. Why is it that nobody seems to worry about preserving does into the old matriarch category?

Just to many of them running around and nobody cares. I just love seeing cam pictures of some real big doe on my property. That 160lbs doe harvested is a rare occasion and a trophy in my book.

[nybuckboy]

Ive stated this a few time. Personally my son and I are trophy hunters first and meat hunters second. I'm fortunate to have 100 acres of land that we own and hunt and some of the neighbors share our practice as well, but not all.  We pass on the small bucks and have for 10 yrs or more. The point is it is our choice.

AR's... as much as I have felt they would be good for growing bigger bucks, it is not fair to take away the privilege of killing whatever a hunter wishes to take. It's their license. 

Regarding the current proposal - If you have to study the points on a buck that closely before taking it then this is restriction is not viable IMHO. We as hunters, do not always get the time to survey Exactly how big the buck is yet we know it's big enough we want to take it.

I think a simple solution should be depending on zones ( the higher the population) the more tags are issued per hunter. Say in the normal population zones 2 tags per hunter, per season, either sex. Higher population say 3 tags per hunter, per season, either sex.  No DMPs' except say nuisance tags. The meat hunters will fill their tags sooner and be done with hunting. The people with less time will have more opportunities to take deer. I and others who are horn hunters first and meat hunter second and have a lot of time to and opportunities to hunt will be able to harvest whatever they want.

Oh and here's another thought... just leave things the way they are. More and more hunters are practicing "let em grow" anyways and history shows us that every year bigger and bigger racks and more of them are being taken each year. So it is working. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by nybuckboy

[rob-c]

One buck limit  per hunter, shoot what you want but only one. Simple. We lease 300 acres and my wife and my son have never shot a buck, they have shot does. My son had numerous encounters with a few 4 points during archery and a 6  during gun. he did not connect on any, and to hear his story's and how excited he got was great. I have passed many 6 and 8's because that's my choice, but I would be so happy for my wife or son to take one . I can still remember every detail of my first buck I ever shot  it was a spike and I shot him with a bow at least 20+ years ago, a true trophy still . 

[wfmiller]

I keep seeing people say they would feel safer with AR's, that doesn't make since to me. If you have to spend more time looking at the deer to make sure it's legal, how does that help with knowing what is beyond your target? Your attention is focused on the deer more not what is around it. 

[Matthewsshooter]

How does identifying ones target equal no longer practicing other rules?? If you can't identify the target and know it's a safe shot you don't shoot. How many times you fire from the hip? I'm out 

[wfmiller]

29 minutes ago, Matthewsshooter said:

How does identifying ones target equal no longer practicing other rules?? If you can't identify the target and know it's a safe shot you don't shoot. How many times you fire from the hip? I'm out 

Counting points is not identifying your target, you're not shooting his rack. 

[dbHunterNY]

hunters should care about doe but it's harder to get the big picture when you're just one hunter.  especially if you don't trust DEC data and don't ask them for it.  it's the same as bucks though.  you want an age structure as nature intended.  as long as there's a 1/3 or more doe being harvested in the area that are 4.5+ years old you're good to go.  logically if there's older deer to shoot that are getting taken the age structure is there.  you can pay attention to sittings too if you can relatively age a doe.  it's harder to quantify when you're just a hunter in the woods say on public land or a small tract that isn't in communications with neighbors.  shooting a doe of the same age usually isn't any easier.  antlers are a rarity though and people therefore are drawn to them.

...no worries, but in 30+ pages of the other antler restriction thread i'm surprised you never posed the question.  a lot of bickering but some good info in there.

[stubby68]

30 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

hunters should care about doe but it's harder to get the big picture when you're just one hunter.  especially if you don't trust DEC data and don't ask them for it.  it's the same as bucks though.  you want an age structure as nature intended.  as long as there's a 1/3 or more doe being harvested in the area that are 4.5+ years old you're good to go.  logically if there's older deer to shoot that are getting taken the age structure is there.  you can pay attention to sittings too if you can relatively age a doe.  it's harder to quantify when you're just a hunter in the woods say on public land or a small tract that isn't in communications with neighbors.  shooting a doe of the same age usually isn't any easier.  antlers are a rarity though and people therefore are drawn to them.

...no worries, but in 30+ pages of the other antler restriction thread i'm surprised you never posed the question.  a lot of bickering but some good info in there.

         I know this isn't at me but in the other thread does were brought up. I asked why Noone ever pushes for protecting younger does. I can't remember the exact words but it was asked. And ignored because no one wants to admit it is all about the bone. Antlers are rare? Seems to be a lot of pics posted of bucks every year. Plenty more of trail cam photos of them as well.

       An age structure as nature intended? Is there any data showing what nature had that age structure at before humans?  I do not mean before we started hunting them. I mean before wee were here. The moment humans got involved we changed 21st nature had and needed. Anything now is just a guess. Housing ,farming ,even predator hunting and anything else humans do changed nature's structure. We have no clue  what nature intended for a proper age structure. Maybe if we took a whole state and moved people out and let nature take over we could in time see what nature intended.until then everything else is a guess. We kill predators and they take out the oldest weakest and sickest the way nature intended. Humans can not make up for the lose of those predators thus skewing things. Humane manage for 21st they want not what nature wants or needs plain and simple. 

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, Matthewsshooter said:

How does identifying ones target equal no longer practicing other rules?? If you can't identify the target and know it's a safe shot you don't shoot. How many times you fire from the hip? I'm out 

        No I dont. However we all know there a lot of guys who do. Just read the hunting threads about all the bang bang bang during season. Those guys do not practice safe hunting to begin with what makes you think making them stop to count points will change that. It could also make more guys give up on being sure of what they are shooting at that is beyond  that buck. Your target should not be the the rack. It should be the deer. If you decide to shoot that you make sure of what is beyond that deer. How many times have you heard someone say I missed a big buck and then say how many Pointe it had. If you had time to count points you had time to make a safe kill. Them knowing the number of points and still not making that kill says they were shooting at rack and not worrying about anything but.

[growalot]

Told my neighbor about this and a few others over the past few weeks..WOW no one out here seems to know anything about this....that says a lot right there...The neighbor was practically giddy about it. The guys behind them have 200 acres in 8M across the Valley...If it passes they will be out hunting more next year ...less chance of pushing deer to them.

[Merlot]

I impose my own antler restrictions. Rather not harvest the young dumb spikes and fork horns, of which I could have had many. Instead, I wait for more maturity before pulling the trigger...but that's just me. I have fun just the same, with hunting with friends and hanging out at the club....burn some steaks...have a Merlot or 2....