Fredbear2

Antler restriction

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All you can do is keep letting them walk. they don't all get shot. When you can show neighboring properties some nicer bucks you kill on your land, it can spread voluntarily. In my eyes, the best thing you can do is make some of your property as thick as possible for cover to hold the deer there as much as possible. The rut throws everything out the window, but it is a good start. And, don't be upset when your neighbor shoots the nice buck you have seen all summer. Lots of times, this will be the thing that gets them wanting to let the younger ones walk. But, and it's a big but, some hunters are perfectly happy with the first buck they see, and some will never shoot a doe. That's how they enjoy deer season, and why take their joy away because it is different from yours. It is frustrating at times, but remember to enjoy yourself. It beats the hell out of being at work.

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Not going to keep arguing over this . That’s why I said it’s your tag so do what you want . I’m not the state I cant in force the rule man. I guess I can’t complain about anything on here. People will just sit there and jump all over you . Bye 

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Like crossbows, antler restrictions are a touchy subject. Both sides have strong opinions on the subject. You have every right to state your case and others have the right to back you up or disagree. It would be simple if everyone would do it voluntarily, but with time so valuable for a lot of people now a days, it doesn't always work out. you are at the mercy of your neighbors to some extent.

Wait until you start to see a few 2 1/2 year old 8 or 10s, and harvest a few. Then, you get to thinking about letting them go another year, and the neighbors shoot them because they have never gotten a nice buck like that. That's when it really starts to punch you in the guts. It is fun as hell, but it is a slow and sometimes painful process. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you. 

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Non hunters who support hunting are the hunters greatest ally.  They out number us in greater numbers and we need their support for hunting.

We have been telling non-hunters for years to gain their support that deer hunting is necessary to maintain a healthy population of deer.  Wildlife biologists determine that a one  buck to three doe ratio is necessary.  They do hot specify that lots of antler points are necessary.  If we say we are more interested in harvesting only deer for large antlers, what would be their reaction?

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13 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Antlers are no longer a big concern for most NY hunters.  Meat is where it is at these days.   

So then you only shoot spikes and let the big ones go right?   

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1 hour ago, Wilderness said:

Non hunters who support hunting are the hunters greatest ally.  They out number us in greater numbers and we need their support for hunting.

We have been telling non-hunters for years to gain their support that deer hunting is necessary to maintain a healthy population of deer.  Wildlife biologists determine that a one  buck to three doe ratio is necessary.  They do hot specify that lots of antler points are necessary.  If we say we are more interested in harvesting only deer for large antlers, what would be their reaction?

What we need are hunters who join a hunting forum to actually support hunting! Not just sound off in the damn political section! 

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1 hour ago, Fredbear2 said:

Not going to keep arguing over this . That’s why I said it’s your tag so do what you want . I’m not the state I cant in force the rule man. I guess I can’t complain about anything on here. People will just sit there and jump all over you . Bye 

But you didn't answer my question... What's do you consider mature?

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9 minutes ago, JimboCNY said:

So then you only shoot spikes and let the big ones go right?   

It has been more than ten years since I killed an antlered buck with less than 3 points on a side.  Generally, deer with larger racks have more meat on them than those with smaller racks.   That is why it makes sense for a meat-hunter, such as myself, to pass the smaller bucks early in the season(s).  I can make the meat from a 3-1/2 year old buck taste the same and have the same texture as a 1-1/2 year old, simply by aging the carcass (at 33 -43 deg F) longer prior to processing.  It makes more sense to use my buck tag on a buck that yields 100 pounds of boneless meat than one that yields 50. 

That being said, I can count on one hand the antlered bucks I have killed after Thanksgiving weekend.  If I still have a buck tag then, I will take the first 3" plus spike that I can get a good shot at.   That 50 pounds of meat provides a lot more nurishment than the paper tag.  I do not have the option of getting all the meat I need from does, because the farmers in our zone hammer them prior to October 1.  Those that remain after hunting season starts are very difficult to kill.       

Your question is pure nonsense.  Are you for or against mandatory AR's ?

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There is not one good reason for state wide Ar's in NY. If you compare the harvest rate of 2.5 year old's or better in NY to PA there is a 5% difference between the two states. PA had a 59% rate of harvest of 2.5 year old's or better and NY was at 54% according to the 2017 harvest reports from both states. It only took PA 15 years of Ar's to get there and PA has seem to have plateaued at a round 60%. NY is going into it's 3rd year of the Let them grow program and has made it to 54% will the trend of killing fewer 1.5 year continue who knows. Mandatory Ar's just aren't worth 5%.

Both states use statistical modeling to get there harvest data and PA's hunters reporting harvest is worse than NY's.

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7 hours ago, Larry said:

 

There is not one good reason for state wide Ar's in NY. If you compare the harvest rate of 2.5 year old's or better in NY to PA there is a 5% difference between the two states. PA had a 59% rate of harvest of 2.5 year old's or better and NY was at 54% according to the 2017 harvest reports from both states. It only took PA 15 years of Ar's to get there and PA has seem to have plateaued at a round 60%. NY is going into it's 3rd year of the Let them grow program and has made it to 54% will the trend of killing fewer 1.5 year continue who knows. Mandatory Ar's just aren't worth 5%.

Both states use statistical modeling to get there harvest data and PA's hunters reporting harvest is worse than NY's.

Just my  theory dont know if you can ever prove this but  , AR's may make bigger bucks that then just get taken out by people hunting illegally.  So that's why most guys dont see much of a difference in those areas  anyway. 

You are  better off  asking people to do it voluntarily. 

 

 

 

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Most of Sullivan County went to an AR in 2006. No dmps in 3A and limited in 3H. Hunting up here for 30 years I can say that we see more mature bucks. A local paper runs a big buck contest by weight not antler size. The 11 years since the AR the winning average weight increased by 10 pounds. The antler argument notwithstanding, letting younger deer pass permits more does to breed increasing the overall population.

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14 hours ago, mowin said:

What do you consider mature? 2.5?

Then you state " shoot what you want it's your tag", but that's exactly what you're complaining about.  

Actual maturity is at least 4.5. But very very few who say they want AR's  are after actual mature bucks. Most all simply want ones a little bit bigger.


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I don't go by antler size to determine whether or not I should shoot a buck or not. I use body size if a buck looks like it is around 200 lbs I'm going to shoot no mater how big the rack is. The only time I use rack size is if I shoot a buck during bow season I will not shoot a second buck in gun season or ml season unless the rack is bigger. The last time that happen was 2004. the other thing I don't do is “i won't shoot a buck on the last day that I wouldn't shoot on the first day”

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4 hours ago, Larry said:

I don't go by antler size to determine whether or not I should shoot a buck or not. I use body size if a buck looks like it is around 200 lbs I'm going to shoot no mater how big the rack is. The only time I use rack size is if I shoot a buck during bow season I will not shoot a second buck in gun season or ml season unless the rack is bigger. The last time that happen was 2004. the other thing I don't do is “i won't shoot a buck on the last day that I wouldn't shoot on the first day”

If I waited for a 200# buck, I'd never shoot a deer.  In my area, it rare to get a buck over 160# let alone 200.  

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2 minutes ago, Wilderness said:

Apparently you do care, or you wouldn't have taken time to post this link.

Seeing you don't care what I think, I don't think you hunt. I think you are a troll.


"Reaching out for the hand of God but did you think you'd shake your own!" - #8

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I can verify that if you have the land and many of your neighbors share the same concept... we can grow respectable racks in NY.  I moved here in May of 2014 and have just under 100 acres. The neighbors to the North have about 200 plus the 150 acres to the East is not hunted hard. The neighbors to the West now are a different story.  Fortunately they are not people who hunt much but they are brown it's down hunters.  My (*) neighbors to the South who moved here in 2017 do not hunt and have 21 acres and do not allow hunting.

Prior to owning the land, which we live on, my prior (*) south neighbors claimed to have killed 14 deer on the hilltop and they were meat hunters so I can only imagine they killed many each year. They moved in 2016. 

The first year in 2014, I had nothing but spikes and 4 pts.  The 2015 not much better but in 2016 I had 3 small 8 pts and various other smaller bucks.  I killed a really wide 6 pt with my bow.  In 2017 two of those 8 pts were killed by my son and I during gun season.  In all honesty we should have let them grow another year. This year was the best by far.  I had 6 nice bucks - all were 8 pts and a nice 10 pt.  2 of the 8's and the 10 were all NY State shooters.

It does work if you're willing to maybe take a doe or two and occasionally a buck for meat.  I'm already looking forward to next year to see whats in store.

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On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:48 AM, Culvercreek hunt club said:


I guess it depends on whether you measure success by inches or experiences.

Experiences definitely.  I don't have very many inches.:cry:

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I can verify that if you have the land and many of your neighbors share the same concept... we can grow respectable racks in NY.  I moved here in May of 2014 and have just under 100 acres. The neighbors to the North have about 200 plus the 150 acres to the East is not hunted hard. The neighbors to the West now are a different story.  Fortunately they are not people who hunt much but they are brown it's down hunters.  My (*) neighbors to the South who moved here in 2017 do not hunt and have 21 acres and do not allow hunting.
Prior to owning the land, which we live on, my prior (*) south neighbors claimed to have killed 14 deer on the hilltop and they were meat hunters so I can only imagine they killed many each year. They moved in 2016. 
The first year in 2014, I had nothing but spikes and 4 pts.  The 2015 not much better but in 2016 I had 3 small 8 pts and various other smaller bucks.  I killed a really wide 6 pt with my bow.  In 2017 two of those 8 pts were killed by my son and I during gun season.  In all honesty we should have let them grow another year. This year was the best by far.  I had 6 nice bucks - all were 8 pts and a nice 10 pt.  2 of the 8's and the 10 were all NY State shooters.
It does work if you're willing to maybe take a doe or two and occasionally a buck for meat.  I'm already looking forward to next year to see whats in store.

Have you done anything on the property like plots or habitat management?

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On 11/18/2018 at 11:23 PM, Larry said:

 

There is not one good reason for state wide Ar's in NY. If you compare the harvest rate of 2.5 year old's or better in NY to PA there is a 5% difference between the two states. PA had a 59% rate of harvest of 2.5 year old's or better and NY was at 54% according to the 2017 harvest reports from both states. It only took PA 15 years of Ar's to get there and PA has seem to have plateaued at a round 60%. NY is going into it's 3rd year of the Let them grow program and has made it to 54% will the trend of killing fewer 1.5 year continue who knows. Mandatory Ar's just aren't worth 5%.

Both states use statistical modeling to get there harvest data and PA's hunters reporting harvest is worse than NY's.

It's of my very strong opinion that DEC jumped on the bandwagon that was already moving. while their 'Let them grow' pitch is very welcomed and helps, many groups and people have volunteered and spent countless hours to educate people on why and what it means. Take Culvercreek for example. His branch has its own thread on here. Also many have been practicing this aspect of quality deer management and by necessity encouraging their neighbors and others to do the same. The numbers of active branches like Culver's (and the one i'm with out this way) have more than tripled.  The people actually letting deer walk or pulling the trigger is what's jump started the trend.  realistically about any means necessary, AR's or otherwise, caps out at around 60% at the state wide level. the percentages are a feel good thing that can be tampered with though. the real take away is DEC should continue to be an out spoken presence toward education with as little agenda or "feelings first" mentality.  also people don't need a degree or formal education to call BS. education and truth is everywhere now and at your fingertips if you have an open mind and willingness to seek it out.

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Non hunters who support hunting are the hunters greatest ally.  They out number us in greater numbers and we need their support for hunting.
We have been telling non-hunters for years to gain their support that deer hunting is necessary to maintain a healthy population of deer.  Wildlife biologists determine that a one  buck to three doe ratio is necessary.  They do hot specify that lots of antler points are necessary.  If we say we are more interested in harvesting only deer for large antlers, what would be their reaction?
They do say that a balanced age range in bucks is important. Having too many young bucks negativity impacts the health of the herd.

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well from what I see in the field is that there are some HUGE spikes that I see bigger than the ones w/ beautiful racks.BOW hunting was so frustrating I seen a doe right under my stand[ yeah I got busted] and she looks @ me and takes off a big spike  stops 20 yds and I cant shoot him another buck behind him and he had a rack but little nubs for tines so hes technically a spike. And that said I see the spikes are the ones doing the breeding NOT the big raked buck please understand this is my observations I have spent almost a month and a 1/2 in the field [im @ my job for 35 yrs and get 6 weeks vacation] and this is what I seen. I say yes pass the little guys but not the big guys . I do it with the does I constantly pass on yearling does and I always see the bigger ones 

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They do say that a balanced age range in bucks is important. Having too many young bucks negativity impacts the health of the herd.

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How does the age of the bucks negatively affect the heard health? I can see the buck to doe ratio doing that but not the age of the bucks.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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