Heaviest buck day in NY

[wolc123]

On what day of the year, during open hunting seasons, do you see bucks reach their maximum body weight (or chest girth measured behind the front legs) in the area(s) where you hunt ?

For the two wmu's where I have hunted and killed the most, these are my estimates:

Wmu 9f: October 25

Wmu 6c: December 22

[chrisw]

Impossible to really know as every deer/situation is different. Middle to End of October should be they're peak weights in theory. I usually add 500 grains to their weight if they're good enough for me...

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[wolc123]

16 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Impossible to really know as every deer/situation is different. Middle to End of October should be they're peak weights in theory. I usually add 500 grains to their weight if they're good enough for me...

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I think  it depends more on buck to doe  ratio than anything else.   That is out of whack in both zones where I hunt.  In 9f, I have been seeing an average of 4 antlered deer per every antlerless one over the last 6 years.  Farmers hit the antlerless deer real hard prior to October 1 in this zone.  With serious competition, our bucks lose a lot of weight thru the rut.

In 6c that ratio is on the opposite extreme, where I saw an average of 6 antlerless deer per each antlered one over the same 6 years.  There are very few doe permits awarded up there.  With little to no competition for does, the bucks up there pack on the pounds thru the rut.

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by wolc123

[BowmanMike]

How can a buck be heaviest after the rut? That doesn't make any sense to me...

[wolc123]

Just now, BowmanMike said:

How can a buck be heaviest after the rut? That doesn't make any sense to me...

Read it again to find out ( I edited to provide the reason).

[moog5050]

I would imagine its right before seeking phase - sometime late October but property specific.

Edited September 22, 2020 by moog5050

[squirrelwhisperer]

39 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I think  it depends more on buck to doe  ratio than anything else.   That is out of whack in both zones where I hunt.  In 9f, I have been seeing an average of 4 antlered deer per every antlerless one over the last 6 years.  Farmers hit the antlerless deer real hard prior to October 1 in this zone.  With serious competition, our bucks lose a lot of weight thru the rut.

In 6c that ratio is on the opposite extreme, where I saw an average of 6 antlerless deer per each antlered one over the same 6 years.  There are very few doe permits awarded up there.  With little to no competition for does, the bucks up there pack on the pounds thru the rut.

 

I don’t know about the biology stuff, but my ratio is WAY off. I see 10 doe for every buck. 

[crappyice]

I don’t know about the biology stuff, but my ratio is WAY off. I see 10 doe for every buck. 

And so (according to Wolc’s logic) the bucks don’t have to work that hard for the booty so they can maintain their size even as they slam many does. So according to wolc’s theory and the chest girth chart, your bucks will produce 125% of their body weight of usable meat in January. They are skinnier in October....


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[squirrelwhisperer]

3 minutes ago, crappyice said:

And so (according to Wolc’s logic) the bucks don’t have to work that hard for the booty so they can maintain their size even as they slam many does. So according to wolc’s theory and the chest girth chart, your bucks will produce 125% of their body weight of usable meat in January. They are skinnier in October....


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Skinny in October or not, I still get buck fever. Heck, I get doe fever, lol.

Srsly, when I’m about ready to release my arrow, I’m surprised they cant hear my heartbeat. 

[BowmanMike]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Read it again to find out ( I edited to provide the reason).

Still doesnt make any sense. They dont have to chase but you talking end of december vs October. Little more food options in october,no?

[nyslowhand]

Me too ^^^! Is there any whitetail biology facts or science behind that observation?? Just seems contrary to a buck's known behavior.

Think MOOG hit the nail on the head!

Edited September 22, 2020 by nyslowhand

[grampy]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

I would imagine its right before seeking phase - sometime late October but property specific.

This is my observation too Brian.

They have been feeding all summer. It is before all the chasing and rigors of the rut.

Come December, bucks are worn out and looking to replace fat reserves, that were lost during rut activities.

I have never seen a buck that was fatter, or heavier in late season, than he was in mid October. Just doesn't happen that way. Sorry wolc.

[NonTypical]

I’d say right around Halloween would be their peak weight on average. 

[BizCT]

This is my observation too Brian.
They have been feeding all summer. It is before all the chasing and rigors of the rut.
Come December, bucks are worn out and looking to replace fat reserves, that were lost during rut activities.
I have never seen a buck that was fatter, or heavier in late season, than he was in mid October. Just doesn't happen that way. Sorry wolc.

Also agree. Early November bucks always seem to weigh more than December ones for us assuming all other things fair equal.


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[crappyice]

I think (if I can get in Wolcs mind) some
Deer walk around like Heff in the Playboy mansion...hence no crazy weight loss since no need to chase ...in areas that are doe heavy and buck light. In THEORY, I can understand (and I am scared!) but not sure that exists in reality...Heff was still pretty skinny!!!!


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[Daveboone]

I can get a buck to hold still for a girth tape measure just about as long as I can get a date to hold still for a bust measurement...

And just the same I am lucky to see either a 2nd time.

[Robhuntandfish]

I get fatter in Nov and Dec but the deer I am guessing not so much.  

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, grampy said:

This is my observation too Brian.

They have been feeding all summer. It is before all the chasing and rigors of the rut.

Come December, bucks are worn out and looking to replace fat reserves, that were lost during rut activities.

I have never seen a buck that was fatter, or heavier in late season, than he was in mid October. Just doesn't happen that way. Sorry wolc.

Well I have killed 2 fat post-rut NW Adirondack bucks on Thanksgiving weekend (2014 & 2016). Both had full stomachs (one of nuts the other of corn).   They don't have to chase up there, with so many does to pick from, nor do they need to fight.  Neither had the slightest bit of fight damage to rack or body.  As long as there is plenty of food around (and there was on those years), there is little reason for them to lose weight thru the rut.  

That contrasts sharply with the late season bucks I have killed around home in WNY.  Those definitely reach their peak weight pre-rut, and the majority taken post-rut have scarred bodies, busted up antlers from fights, and very little fat, compared to those stout NW Adirondack bucks.

It sounds like the areas you have hunted have good buck doe ratios.  It is not until you get to places like the NW corner of the Adirondack park, where there are 5 or more does for every buck, that you might see the peak buck weights post- rut.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by wolc123

[G-Man]

9 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Well I have killed 2 fat post-rut NW Adirondack bucks on Thanksgiving weekend (2014 & 2016). Both had full stomachs (one of nuts the other of corn).   They don't have to chase up there, with so many does to pick from, nor do they need to fight.  Neither had the slightest bit of fight damage to rack or body.  As long as there is plenty of food around (and there was on those years), there is little reason for them to lose weight thru the rut.  

That contrasts sharply with the late season bucks I have killed around home in WNY.  Those definitely reach their peak weight pre-rut, and the majority taken post-rut have scarred bodies, busted up antlers from fights, and very little fat, compared to those stout NW Adirondack bucks.

It sounds like the areas you have hunted have good buck doe ratios.  It is not until you get to places like the NW corner of the Adirondack park, where there are 5 or more does for every buck, that you might see the peak buck weights post- rut.

 

 

If the population is low and 1st rut ends. Bucks will return to feeding to put on weight for winter, I can see this in the dacks.  Unfortunately most of New York's deer population is so skewed that bucks run for months trying to breed does, though I do believe some buck just sit breeding season out, participate minimally especially if they are older 

[wolc123]

42 minutes ago, G-Man said:

If the population is low and 1st rut ends. Bucks will return to feeding to put on weight for winter, I can see this in the dacks.  Unfortunately most of New York's deer population is so skewed that bucks run for months trying to breed does, though I do believe some buck just sit breeding season out, participate minimally especially if they are older 

It would be interesting to see what happens behind the high fences.  I would guess that if FSW chimes in, he would say his bucks are heavier on December 22 than they are on October 25, similar to what I see in the free range ones up in wmu 6c.

Give them plenty of food, freedom from competition, and they keep packing on the pounds.  The only years that dont happen in 6c are those when they get heavy, early snows. Climate change has curtailed that for quite a while now.

[Chef]

This is the most Ridiculous insane thread and it has almost 0 merit.


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[Foggy Mountain]

On 9/22/2020 at 9:27 PM, wolc123 said:

Well I have killed 2 fat post-rut NW Adirondack bucks on Thanksgiving weekend (2014 & 2016). Both had full stomachs (one of nuts the other of corn).   They don't have to chase up there, with so many does to pick from, nor do they need to fight.  Neither had the slightest bit of fight damage to rack or body.  As long as there is plenty of food around (and there was on those years), there is little reason for them to lose weight thru the rut.  

That contrasts sharply with the late season bucks I have killed around home in WNY.  Those definitely reach their peak weight pre-rut, and the majority taken post-rut have scarred bodies, busted up antlers from fights, and very little fat, compared to those stout NW Adirondack bucks.

It sounds like the areas you have hunted have good buck doe ratios.  It is not until you get to places like the NW corner of the Adirondack park, where there are 5 or more does for every buck, that you might see the peak buck weights post- rut.

 

 

Bucks are not getting larger through the rut no matter what any ratio is. They’re still deer and follow similar patterns. 
A doe smells good for days beforehand even in the Adirondaks. The doe moves around and the bucks with her. The males of most species eat less to not very much. 
you say bucks don’t chase, nonsense. When you see or saw a few maybe they weren’t, if the doe isn’t running away and they often run away as they don’t want to be bothered even though they smell it, than the buck would stand with her not just laxidasically decide since I have no competition I’ll just eat until she’s ready. 
They’re still chasing just possibly with less competition but through constant following a doe til she lets him breed, going into the next, the already mentioned walk phase, the bucks are still moving way more than normal. A bucks core range during the rut tends to open up as well, more walking. The weight is not going up. I’ve hunted the adirondaks as a kid for years. Yes the deer are big. They’re bigger before the rut though. 
Remember even if the ratio is skewed, bucks don’t care about does, it’s only does in heat or those that smell that way. Once they’re bred he’d be off again looking. At ruts end there’s less he’s gotta go find them. Did I say more walking??? 

[wolc123]

6 hours ago, Foggy Mountain said:

Bucks are not getting larger through the rut no matter what any ratio is. They’re still deer and follow similar patterns. 
A doe smells good for days beforehand even in the Adirondaks. The doe moves around and the bucks with her. The males of most species eat less to not very much. 
you say bucks don’t chase, nonsense. When you see or saw a few maybe they weren’t, if the doe isn’t running away and they often run away as they don’t want to be bothered even though they smell it, than the buck would stand with her not just laxidasically decide since I have no competition I’ll just eat until she’s ready. 
They’re still chasing just possibly with less competition but through constant following a doe til she lets him breed, going into the next, the already mentioned walk phase, the bucks are still moving way more than normal. A bucks core range during the rut tends to open up as well, more walking. The weight is not going up. I’ve hunted the adirondaks as a kid for years. Yes the deer are big. They’re bigger before the rut though. 
Remember even if the ratio is skewed, bucks don’t care about does, it’s only does in heat or those that smell that way. Once they’re bred he’d be off again looking. At ruts end there’s less he’s gotta go find them. Did I say more walking??? 

Did you ever kill any up there when hunting as a kid, and look at the stomach contents ? 

Most of the bucks I have killed in WNY were early rut, but the few late rut (thanksgiving weekend) ones had basically empty stomachs even though there was plenty of food in the area.

In stark contrast were my 2014 and 2016 Adirondack bucks both of which had full stomachs.  This leads me to believe, like moog says, peak weight may be property specific.

What dmu do you hunt currently and what day would you estimate that bucks reach their peak weight there ?

[wolc123]

8 hours ago, Chef said:

This is the most Ridiculous insane thread and it has almost 0 merit.


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You best fill out your mail in ballot now while you are in the left state of mind.

Edited September 24, 2020 by wolc123

[LET EM GROW]

I would say Mid October would be their heaviest body weights for the year.. before they get aggressive and super active