How would you handle this?

[Five Seasons]

My dad has leased on and off, gifted Costanza's, wine etc and had permission to hunt his bordering neighbors 30 acres  for the 35+ years where he's lived (gives us about 50 total). The guy doesn't hunt and doesn't really care about deer. They've partnered several times to log and my dad has even let him grab tops off his part of the property. The relationship is a good one.

About 4 years ago, his youngest daughter marries a newer/novice hunter in his early to mid 30's. This isn't great news for us, but he's pretty harmless at first. Every year his effort and time in the wood grows. The neighbor and my dad maintain the same relationship, but it's mostly me communicating with the son in law so that we're not bumping into each other on the weekends and my retired dad hunts the weekdays. In 4 years he shoots a bb, a doe fawn and wounds a doe that I put down. This year he has a good day during bow where he shoots a nice doe, and while he's waiting to get down a small yearling 5 comes in and he drops him too. Good for him, I congratulate him and even offer to help him butcher as he needs some pointers on the process. He takes me up on it and I give up 5 hours on a Monday night (during the bills chiefs game lol) and he comes to my place where I help and even provide the vac bags. We do both deer sans grinding. He learns a bunch, thanks me but isn't overly grateful imo.

Fast forward to opening day of gun where he texts me a pic of a decent buck he shoots on another property. I congratulate him and ask what he's doing with all the meat, as he mentioned he had leftover meat from last year when we butchered the first 2 deer and his wife doesn't eat it and they have no kids. He tells me he's donating it to a friend. Ok, I know a lot of people do this. Not my style, not my thing but it's legal and to each his own. 

Last week he tells me he's hunting. What? You already have 3 deer. Yeah I have more friends that need meat he says. Mind you this is about 45 acres of heavily pressured area. Tells me he really just likes hunting and the meat part isn't a big deal.

So long story short he moved a cell cam he has and caught me last night. We chatted back and forth after me telling him how i haven't seen a deer back there in forever and he proceeds to tell me he's gonna try more for another. At this point, given the relationship I've been bighting my tongue but finally give in and state that i'm surprised he's still hunting with 3 deer in the freezer and just him that eats it. He tells me he wants to give more away and that one friend offered to pay him $100 for one which he's excited about as he can put that towards a muzzleloader. I pretty nicely express my concerns regarding the finite resource of deer and then nicely add that it's illegal to sell or trade wildgame in NY. He says that it's the same as his friend paying to process the deer but he's processing it himself. I explain that he is incorrect and that it's illegal to sell or trade so much as a bluegill. His last response is that well, we walk into the woods in the dark and that's illegal. Which I reply that it's only illegal to pull the trigger and then again a plea to just be conscious of the resource and how things have changed back there. That I'm not against his reasons for hunting, as they are his own but more or less... QDMA bro. Since then silence. One final point is he's made a lot of comments about other peoples tags which i always shoot down but come across as him testing my level of care on the legality of it. 

but anyhow... guys just hunting to donate and make money. Not cool right? Or mind my own business? 

[Kmartinson]

Find new land. Train is headed into Drama central station.  This is common and you have to make your own decisions on how you want to pursue legally. I eat 4 deer a year easily and also give 2 deer a year to my uncle and great uncle who can no longer hunt. Not every one is all good or all bad.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Tough situation. Be careful, hes family

[NYBowhunter]

Tuff one because its not your property and I think we discussed something similar last year. I'm fine with him using all his tags legally to donate to someone in need or cant hunt anymore. But if hes testing the waters and asking you about using other peoples tags (DMP's transferred to him is fine) tells me hes not really a guy to trust. To be honest he just sounds like a person that likes to kill. Your in a bad position, as long as hes doing everything legally not much you can do or should say. Starting tension with a family may cost you dearly in the long run. Seems like your dealing with similar crap as last year. Find a new place or buy your own.

[DTG3k]

Nothing wrong with him hunting extra deer. But he is clearly someone who might take too many or out of season. If I were you I wouldn't say anything. But I would pay attention for shots out of season, or if you notice improper tag, and report to DEC. Him taking extra deer affects your hunting experience. Be prepared to possibly lose access to the property. Also, I don't know how hunting is in your area, but he seems to have a lot of deer luck, so if I were you I would keep my eyes open for any suspicious piles of feed.

[Jeremy K]

If he has tags then he has tags ,not much more can be said . Not everyone is into hunting to score a mature deer.

[johnplav]

That's definitely a tough situation.  You are ultimately commenting on how he legally hunts his family land. 

The best advice I can give is to continue having an open line of communication with him, and keep things civil.  

If he is doing something illegal, you can certainly call him on it, but know that it could affect the relationship and hunting access.

 

I believe it's legal to sell a bluegill though

[BizCT]

I'll be honest, I'm shocked you still have access. He's family and it sounds like only a matter of time before he decides he wants to hunt it alone. Be thankful for the years you had hunting there and move on.

[rob-c]

If he’s not breaking any laws, nothing you can do. It technically is his land now he married into it. As was said keep eyes peeled but mouth shut. 

[Steve D]

20 minutes ago, Belo said:

but anyhow... guys just hunting to donate and make money. Not cool right? Or mind my own business? 

I have a friend that owns 30+ acres. Him and his significant other only hunt one day a year which is opening day. He might go out once or twice more but more than likely not. They are both vegans and the only reason they hunt at all is because they have hit so many with their cars they have this urgent need to reduce the population.

 They shoot them, complete their tag, report them, an throw them over a ravine on their property for the coyotes or whatever.

 I have asked him a number of times why he doesn't donate them to the venison coalition instead of completely wasting them and his reply has always been he doesn't want to deal with taking them somewhere or mess around processing them.

Some people you just cannot figure out so do what I do and mind your own business. Someone like him and my friend you will never change their minds and as long as they are legal there isn't much any of us can do about it.

[Steuben Jerry]

2 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

I'll be honest, I'm shocked you still have access. He's family and it sounds like only a matter of time before he decides he wants to hunt it alone. Be thankful for the years you had hunting there and move on.

I was just about to write this exact same thing. Except I was going to add to the "hunt it alone" with bringing a few friends.

[Nomad]

Hey everyone has different reasons for hunting  . I have a friend who donates his meat, and the antlers have to stay at the camp , so he gets neither the meat or horns....

I married into a farm family , the cost of access to the land is one most men should best avoid , he’s paid his dues .

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Kmartinson said:

 Not every one is all good or all bad.

I know, I honestly don't think he's bad. And so far his approach is legal, I just struggle with killing what you're not going to eat. 

1 hour ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Tough situation. Be careful, hes family

Yeah this is the obvious problem haha. That said, he doesn't own the land and people get divorced. Regardless, this land isn't mine either so someday my parents wont be there either.

1 hour ago, NYBowhunter said:

To be honest he just sounds like a person that likes to kill. Your in a bad position, as long as hes doing everything legally not much you can do or should say. Starting tension with a family may cost you dearly in the long run. Seems like your dealing with similar crap as last year. Find a new place or buy your own.

the drama has really hurt the last couple years for me. Most of you know I like to hunt to escape reality. Getting a nice buck is just the bonus. This has caused somewhat peaceful sits to turn into the opposite. You're right that I think he's just a killer, but I will add that he's been doing things legally, but is approaching not. 

I have new land to hunt, but it comes with its own set of issues. Working to secure it over the next few years. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

If he has tags then he has tags ,not much more can be said . Not everyone is into hunting to score a mature deer.

 

1 hour ago, johnplav said:

That's definitely a tough situation.  You are ultimately commenting on how he legally hunts his family land. 

The best advice I can give is to continue having an open line of communication with him, and keep things civil.  

If he is doing something illegal, you can certainly call him on it, but know that it could affect the relationship and hunting access.

 

I believe it's legal to sell a bluegill though

except the part where he's going to sell it. that's not legal. And yeah my approach so far has been to work with him, and like I said even helped cut up 2 deer and have been helpful. He may even find this and read it, but I'll say it anyhow. He his this attitude like we owe him. It's not his land, it's his FIL's and I don't owe him anything. I don't mind helping a neighbor, but a little appreciation and less expectation of "payment" would be nice. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

I'll be honest, I'm shocked you still have access. He's family and it sounds like only a matter of time before he decides he wants to hunt it alone. Be thankful for the years you had hunting there and move on.

It's not his land, and my dad has maintained a healthy relationship with the FIL. Even if the guy wanted sole access (which i'm sure he may have even tried) I don't think the FIL would boot my dad. Not after the shit ton of wood they logged this year and decades long relationship. My dad's booted trespassers, posted the land, and other things that would be quite a dick move to boot him. That said, if the relationship becomes hostile it's certainly in the cards. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Steve D said:

I have a friend that owns 30+ acres. Him and his significant other only hunt one day a year which is opening day. He might go out once or twice more but more than likely not. They are both vegans and the only reason they hunt at all is because they have hit so many with their cars they have this urgent need to reduce the population.

 They shoot them, complete their tag, report them, an throw them over a ravine on their property for the coyotes or whatever.

 I have asked him a number of times why he doesn't donate them to the venison coalition instead of completely wasting them and his reply has always been he doesn't want to deal with taking them somewhere or mess around processing them.

Some people you just cannot figure out so do what I do and mind your own business. Someone like him and my friend you will never change their minds and as long as they are legal there isn't much any of us can do about it.

jesus. hope the new waste law passes. it's crazy that isn't already a law. 

[Unit8R]

Now I've heard it all for sure... vegans who kill and waste

[NYBowhunter]

7 minutes ago, Unit8R said:

Now I've heard it all for sure... vegans who kill and waste

I put nothing past mankind, people do some ridiculous stupid shit. Guess they justify things in thier crazy messed up brains.

[Five Seasons]

FYI for those interested

https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/environmental-conservation-law/env-sect-11-0917.html

more interesting are some of the regs here that I'm not sure a lot of us follow very well

https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/environmental-conservation-law/env-sect-11-0911.html

wonder if those vegans could be cited under 

2. 2. The taker shall remove his deer out of the woods or open country to a camp or other inhabited location by midnight of the day immediately following the expiration of the open season in the county or part of a county in which the deer was taken.

[Steve D]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

wonder if those vegans could be cited under 

2. 2. The taker shall remove his deer out of the woods or open country to a camp or other inhabited location by midnight of the day immediately following the expiration of the open season in the county or part of a county in which the deer was taken.

I am not a lawyer so I couldn't answer that one. Either way they would have at least 3 more days to remove it.

[wolc123]

It is no wonder why you are not seeing deer, with that much pressure on 50 acres.  I would look for someplace else to hunt.  Your odds of seeing deer may improve (if you find the right spots), but the escape/relaxation/peace of mind improvement factor alone would justify the move.

For old time sake, you can always hunt with your dad and new friend, for a day or two a year, at the old spot.  I would recommend opening day of bow and gun seasons.  It sounds like you may already be on the right track in doing that.

Edited December 10, 2020 by wolc123

[chrisw]

Personally I hate people filling tags to fill them. I only shoot 2-3 deer a year because that's the only meat my wife and I need. Could I fill every tag? Probably. I, like you, am also turned off by people giving out deer to a bunch of people. Just because you have the tags doesn't mean they should/need to all be filled. I'm the same way with fish too. I'll hook someone up on occasion but in my opinion if we all started taking way more than we need and start shooting 2-3 extra deer every season to hand out we'd be in rough shape hunting wise. This guy in particular sounds like he just likes to shoot deer and the added bonus of looking like a great white hunter to all of the "needy" people. Legal, illegal, moral, ethical? I don't know, but I don't like it at all.

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[G-Man]

Well 1st you stated pretty novice hunter.. every young hunter i know wants to fill tags. I did when i was younger , then when my brother wanted a deer i fill my tags and give it to him... until he gave it to his brother in law..i didnt mind helping my.brother feed my niece and nephews but it ticked me off him giving it away.  He only.has the doe my nephew shot in youth and about 18 lbs i gave him from my archery buck as i had no freezer space.  And the hints of oh if you can have started.. not happening .. 

Perhaps with a few under his belt or perhaps intrest him in something his wife will eat ( grouse   or turkey maybe.. )  someone posted a stages of hunting .. hes still at 1st stage...

[Jeremy K]

I know for a fact at one of my spots that the neighbors bait and another will shoot a deer out of season if he needs meat ,I've never even considered telling on them.

[TreeGuy]

Keep poking that bear and your gonna ruin that relationship your dad has.... Just my .o2

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