Buying land with out mineral rights

[rob-c]

Wife and I are looking hard at  buying some land, and wanted to know if any of you have bought land with out mineral rights? Any pros or cons you can pass along, we really don’t care about getting money from the minerals if any exists. Just looking to put a small  camp on it and use it for hunting and camping etc. From what I’ve read it seems the owner of the minerals really can’t just set up a drilling rig with out some form of amicable agreement , is this correct ? Thanks guys ..

[mowin]

Do the mineral rights go to the seller to capitalize on at a later date? If so frig that. 

[Nytracker]

I don't know what the legality of it is . I bought my property with the mineral rights . Exploratory rights were given back in 70s. The expired in 10 years if no improvement was made . Such as roads.... landings or buildings . If improvements were made they had rights to extend the lease.  Had to get Shell to sign off on it .

That said I wouldn't buy a piece unless you could protect your rights . My BIL had gas line company come in to work on stream crossing during bow season . Nothing he could do as his father sold the easement many years ago . Just something to think about.

[G-Man]

Mineral rights or subsurface rights, or just gas or oil rights.. big difference between them from them opening a strip mine or just a rig or rights to pull gas or oil from under you from a well on neighbors.  

[rob-c]

Thanks all, one parcel we were looking at has zero mineral rights - oil / gas & mineral. Owner must have sold them off. 

[Lawdwaz]

Consult the appropriate attorney if need be.  

[rachunter]

Definitely talk to someone that know about it.I was looking a property in Chenango County none sold with the mineral rights.The realtor said there was a natural gas fault and people where gambling on them running a line.I forget the name but if you put in new york gas fault it shows where they are.It suck because I found some nice property for cheap.

[rob-c]

27 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Consult the appropriate attorney if need be.  

Oh Absolutely , just wanted  some average Joe thoughts. 

[rob-c]

14 minutes ago, rachunter said:

Definitely talk to someone that know about it.I was looking a property in Chenango County none sold with the mineral rights.The realtor said there was a natural gas fault and people where gambling on them running a line.I forget the name but if you put in new york gas fault it shows where they are.It suck because I found some nice property for cheap.

I’ve noticed that , it seems the land that doesn’t  include mineral rights is significantly less. 

[avg. joe]

Find out who has the rights. I bought a piece of property once that the rights belonged to an oil and gas company that no longer existed. The attorney was able to get that removed and the rights deeded to me.

[Wildcat]

I would be very careful..   If it were me I would want to know if there are any contracts currently in place or would want to establish parameters around what the owner of the rights can or can not do.\

For instance, when shale mining was in play in NYs, I signed an "exploration lease"..   I specified in there that they could not come on my property between 9/1 and 1/1 and also specified that they need my permission before they came..   They agreed to it and paid me almost $6k and never called or showed up.

If I didn't have some level of control, I would not go down this path..   I can't imagine hitting the peak of the rut and all of a sudden excavation equipment shows up for a couple weeks..

[catskillkid]

I bought my land 21 years ago when mineral rights were not even a discussion. So they conveyed to me upon purchase. The big natural gas craze started happening around 15 years ago and gas companies were leasing rights from landowners all over our area in Delaware County. I think it was Cuomo that banned all hydraulic fracturing and the gas prices tanked also. So gas companies did not renew leases. 

Last year I was in contract to purchase an adjoining parcel of land. The seller wanted to retain 50% of the mineral rights. My attorney advised me not to agree to this condition and would require me to sign a disclaimer from him stating that he advised me of all of the future downfalls if I proceeded with the purchase. The seller finally did agree to convey the mineral rights because the deal would have been dead if she refused.

I would look for other properties if I were you. Lots of land out there. Just think about this, if you are asking these questions now, any potential future buyer of your land will have the same second thoughts that your are having. Not owning the mineral rights on your land will make it much harder to sell in the future.

[First-light]

I own two adjoining parcels. One has mineral rights the other doesn't. During the height of the gas companies buying up all the rights in NY and PA I offered the previous owner $15,000 for the rights. He turned it down. As time went on the rights became worthless to me. Sure I would like to have them and would be willing to pay up to a grand for them just to join it back up with the parcel. What I found out about my property and the surrounding properties is that we sit on a huge aquifer. There is also protected wetlands on my property and neighbors. I had a lease with a wind company and in the end all the leases in my area were terminated because of these reasons. I was told NYS would never allow drilling in my area. For those reasons I sleep a little better at night. lol

[Farflung]

If you have outstanding mineral rights on your property, this might be a good time to buy them. With the current Cuomo administration it is unlikely to have fracking or other drilling for the immediate future. But .... things change, and at some point they may be in play again. You could start with your county real property office, but you will likely need the help of a lawyer who deals in these rights.

[Sambuca]

The mineral rights on the land where my camp is were sold in the 70's.  When I bought it in 2010, I was also concerned about it.  However, there were gas wells and a pipeline already in place on my property and all the neighboring ones.  Because of the spacing requirements, nothing more can be added.  The fact that mineral rights were already sold made the land a steal for a recreational property.  I have never seen anyone from the gas company on my land except for the yellow pipeline markers being replaced a few years back.  The only "mineral" interest in central NY is the natural gas from the Marcellus Shale.  Unless fracking is legalized in NY, no one is going to drill more of these low producing gas wells.  

I am glad the mineral rights issue didn't stop me from buying.  If I had remained hung up on it, I may never have afforded a property big enough to make me happy.  No regrets at all.  Oh, and I make about $80 a year in royalties. 

[land 1]

i bought a piece without mineral/gas rights the rights are owned by company out of NYC that hydro frack but unlikely ny will allow fracking also have stream on property that they couldnt frack near, "clean water act" that being said land was very cheap only about 1/4 to a 1/3 of asking price from other properties in area so i jumped on it  ,

[greensider]

No way asking for trouble my Lawyer  fought with sellers lawyer to release them 

[Geno C]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:02 PM, rob-c said:

Wife and I are looking hard at  buying some land, and wanted to know if any of you have bought land with out mineral rights? Any pros or cons you can pass along, we really don’t care about getting money from the minerals if any exists. Just looking to put a small  camp on it and use it for hunting and camping etc. From what I’ve read it seems the owner of the minerals really can’t just set up a drilling rig with out some form of amicable agreement , is this correct ? Thanks guys ..

Hey Rob

I have bought a home without them before, only because they weren't owned by the seller. Was not an issue selling that home either.  I have represented many clients in land purchases over the years on parcels where OGM were not conveying and I have negotiated those rights for my buyers. Typically it is not something I advise my seller to hold back OGM, ever. I feel the buyer pool is limited unless a buyer absolutely just wants the land for hunting and recreation and does not care about the rights and those buyers pale in comparison to those who want them.

 

Just remember, everything is negotiable ... Some sellers are tough to deal with in conveying those rights but even if something is listed as negotiable or do not convey, I always push for the OGM for my buyers. A buyer should have something in its entirety. The land I own, I own all of the rights. Sellers these days feel they are going to strike it big in gas one day but forget we've had a moratorium since 2008. NY has pissed off gas companies and I dont see them fracking anytime soon.. Are you being represented by an agent? and is the land deal on or off market?

[rob-c]

2 hours ago, Geno C said:

Hey Rob

I have bought a home without them before, only because they weren't owned by the seller. Was not an issue selling that home either.  I have represented many clients in land purchases over the years on parcels where OGM were not conveying and I have negotiated those rights for my buyers. Typically it is not something I advise my seller to hold back OGM, ever. I feel the buyer pool is limited unless a buyer absolutely just wants the land for hunting and recreation and does not care about the rights and those buyers pale in comparison to those who want them.

 

Just remember, everything is negotiable ... Some sellers are tough to deal with in conveying those rights but even if something is listed as negotiable or do not convey, I always push for the OGM for my buyers. A buyer should have something in its entirety. The land I own, I own all of the rights. Sellers these days feel they are going to strike it big in gas one day but forget we've had a moratorium since 2008. NY has pissed off gas companies and I dont see them fracking anytime soon.. Are you being represented by an agent? and is the land deal on or off market?

First thanks for the help, second  no agent we are pretty much window shopping at this point ,I came across this parcel surfing the online listings . https://www.landwatch.com/steuben-county-new-york-undeveloped-land-for-sale/pid/409181943  Just trying to do some research before we do get serious. 

[Geno C]

22 minutes ago, rob-c said:

First thanks for the help, second  no agent we are pretty much window shopping at this point ,I came across this parcel surfing the online listings . https://www.landwatch.com/steuben-county-new-york-undeveloped-land-for-sale/pid/409181943  Just trying to do some research before we do get serious. 

Are you looking in Steuben County? 

[suburbanfarmer]

25 minutes ago, rob-c said:

First thanks for the help, second  no agent we are pretty much window shopping at this point ,I came across this parcel surfing the online listings . https://www.landwatch.com/steuben-county-new-york-undeveloped-land-for-sale/pid/409181943  Just trying to do some research before we do get serious. 

LOL...small world. I am planning to walk it this weekend.

[rob-c]

2 minutes ago, Geno C said:

Are you looking in Steuben County? 

Yes looking in Steuben and possibly Chemung . 

[rob-c]

1 minute ago, suburbanfarmer said:

LOL...small world. I am planning to walk it this weekend.

Haha it is. 

[suburbanfarmer]

2 minutes ago, rob-c said:

Haha it is. 

I will let you know what I find..

[rob-c]

2 minutes ago, suburbanfarmer said:

I will let you know what I find..

Ok cool, pack your snow shoes .