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Its been a long time coming but a new cam manufacturer has released their cams to the public. I have been providing feedback, testing, and development the past six-seven months, specifically on their cell cam model, the PATRIOTic. I am excited to see what comes of it. Hopefully I helped build a winner.

In most cases (not all), the word "hate" might be a bit strong. But anyone who has not spotted the bias and language of animosity here and there, either hasn't been following the thread or simply doesn't want to see it, or is part of it.

Actually, anybody who has been following this thread and doesn't see the gun hunter vs. bowhunter animosity showing through, can't be really paying attention. It has nothing to do with complexes, but a simple honest reaction to some of the comments on this thread. Apparently I am not the only one picking up on that. The idea of everyone going out hunting and having a good time is an honorable thought, but bowhunters are not the only ones who should be thinking that way.

I hunt with bow, gun, crossbow, and inline m-l. I put on my hunting pants just like any other hunter, one leg at a time. And I think all hunters should be able to shoot or not shoot what ever they want as long as they stay within the regulations. The DEC sets those regulations, not other hunters. If blame for bad regulations is to be placed, it should not be towards other hunters.

Bottom line: it'd be a damned crappy way to treat an employer. Respect is always a two-way street.

At least Bernie openly calls himself a Socialist. I'll give him that. Others of his ilk hide behind the label of Democrat, which they were somehow able to co-opt for their own devices in the early to mid 20th century. Many seem to forget that Capitalism and the concept of free-market enterprise is precisely why we're not all still riding horses and using an abacus under the glow of an oil lamp today. The US was founded as the home of the free...free to think, free to innovate, free to produce. Put that freedom under the control of a central government and there will be little or no thinking, innovating, or producing. And there will absolutely be no personal liberty as we've come to know it. That's not how our government is supposed to work.

Junkie. Did bernie sellout to the machine in your opinion considering hes running as a democrat and not a socialist?

I have had friends and family in both big retail and small. Both offered disounts to employees and family. Some would even offer to friends. Thier is a big diffence between offering a discount and making a profit from that family discount. Plain and simple that is theft regaurdless of what store it is. Bet if you asked your employer instead of posting the question on the internet they would say the same. If you want to help a friend invite them into the store and introduce them to the manager and ask if he can get a discount as a personal friend. Many managers are hunters and fisherman just like us and have no issue giving a discount to a close friend of yours. Otherwise making a profit from your empoyer in this way is ethicaly WRONG, don't do it.

Every year I never plan on shooting anything, yes I scout and practice and know where my bigger deer are , but I still don't plan on shooting anything, relieves a lot of pressure and the running joke at camp is every year I say that and get 3 or 4 deer. Well this year is different, I planted an orchard 12 years ago, paid to have dozer come in and clear a spot , planted my 5/8 whips and fenced them from rubbing bucks mice and rabbits, this year they are loaded and average 5 in or so in diameter. I'm happy !! apple.for me and the deer when they fall. Seems a bear has learned to like them as well , it's to big to climb them and had decided to just pull the trees down!!!! Since war has now been declared I have a hit list with a bear on it!!!!

Right..and I think it is very unethical to profit off of someones generosity. The "OH they can afford it" thing just doesn't wash.

For the folks here claiming bowhunters "don't shoot enough does" You still don't seem to be grasping the bottom line concept. Bowhunters are also gun hunters. Whether they take their does in bow or gun season is immaterial. A man only needs to kill what he eats. As belo and I and others have said. A dead doe is a dead doe. More deer will not be killed if bow hunters shoot more of their does during bow season. And I will Echo what he and doc are saying, seems like a few guys who gun hunt but do not bowhunt are wrongly making this a bow hunter/gun hunter thing. Bowhunters ARE gun hunters. I guess I should be arguing with myself then!"

That sucks!! those apple trees have been growing for quite a while and now that you have a nice established orchard the Bruins move in and screw it up. I've seen your trail cam picks of the bear destroying you pop up blind. They have no manners!

Anglers? When was the last time they had THEIR world rocked like the hunters? Oh wait, wasn't there a saltwater license train wreck or something.......?? Those darned anglers have it made! Nice to see you posting here and there Steve. Post some pics of your new pooch.

Why do you feel a need to continue poking this bow/gun issue?I see you bow hunt and I also see you list 4f..isn't that in a non affected area? Yes I'm vocal on this and yes I have no Love for the DEC...though that is mainly Those operating out of the region 8 main office...other wise I have had no problems with those I have delt with in region 7,9,and 8's southerntier staff. Yes I will protest bad policy and never apologize. I won't blame fellow hunters fora problem they did not cause.Had sound policies been made starting years ago...they would not be implementing BAD policies now. This one is so flawed they can not even hide what the real agenda behind this is.

QUESTION, how many fish did you catch in that thing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QUESTION , how does one get that contraption up into a tree?

If I were the employer, I would not want competition from my own employees. And if I were to learn of such activities, it would be grounds for dismissal. Competition in retail is tough enough against other retail companies.

Would you cheat on your spouse/significant other with the 100 % chance they'd never find out ? And why is my print so small ?

I guess , I hang with the wrong crowd. Most bow hunters I know are happy to get a deer..period.. Most don't have good enough hunting to pass a shot on a doe in hopes of a decent buck walking by..

Haters going to hate. We get labeled as elitist and honestly that doesn't bother me. Almost all bow hunters I know are very dedicated, well trained and knowledgable. Doesn't mean the gun only guys aren't, but generally you have to be good to bow hunt. Those that don't have the patience will quit. So somehow then we get hated on for being successful. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's pretty shitty a few gun hunters think their fellow hunters deserve what we got. Honestly that hurts even more than the reg itself. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Entrepreneurial zest would be contacting a distributor, getting a business license, setting up a storefront (real or virtual) and selling like a real business. I'm not sure how our culture encourages such behavior. Again, I feel this practice is no more than theft. If you failed to lock you car, are you actively encouraging theft? Does that then condone the theft? What if the employer didn't have cameras in the stock room and trusted you with the keys to the store... does that "encourage" helping yourself to some "excess" inventory and make it acceptable? It is any more ethical to "take a few home" if it is for personal use vs. resale? An employer giving a benefit to an employee and trusting that employee to not use that benefit to steal from the employer is "trust" not encouragement. Scale makes no difference. It's like the old joke: Man: would you sleep with me for $1 million? Woman: sure Man: would you sleep with me for $1? Woman: No! What do you think I am? Man: We've already determined that - now, we are simply negotiating price.

No I would not, you are undermining the business for personal gain. That discount is suppose to be for personal use, ex: yourself, family and friends, not resale of items for profit.

You sure they were not pretzels...? :-)

So if a person came out and flat out ran as a Socialist, would they not have a chance because they are not affiliated with one of the major parties, or because the vast majority of Americans are anti Socialist??

Noodlepoopers..... they're a new invasive!

At the end of the day I believe we are conservationists, and if we thought this plan DEC has would work, we would deal with it like adults. As far as I'm concerned I'd stop hunting if that was needed to protect the heard. Problem is most of us are convinced, rightfully so, that this plan cannot possible work. It's not that we are being selfish. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just take your tags and money out of state. I did. Unfortunately I have some great land in NY and pay my out of state fee to come back every year and bowhunt.

If you place it early the deer will get used to it and the noise will keep you awake lol. Good luck it looks good.

Bet that thing is going to be loud in the rain!

archers are only blaming the dec. some gun hunters are blaming archers. Do you see the difference? Your posts have me starting to wonder who your employer is.

LOL. At least yours would send out the search patrol for you.

Take way my car, take my house, hell take away the sweets, but know one better ever take away my Summit. I have the model with the rubber band foot holders. Sure was nice to update to the plastic foot holder. Only trouble I do have is their small for my boots. Made for small feet people or something. One word of caution though. Make sure tie a rope from the seat to the foot platform. I didn't, one day and was stuck in the tree for two days before the misses sent the dog out lookin for me.

Selling and price please.

I might think about buying something from you once if we were friends, I would then end ties with you or anyone because shows that persons true character. A lying cheating dishonest person, someone never to trust with anything even your word would mean nothing

Not sure what your looking for spring, summer,fall...preference on any wild plants depend on your growth and soil conditions. I will not totally remove honey suckle ,dog wood,and autumn olive. I look forward to seeing elder berry brush ,poke weed poison ivy in some areas.Most wild trees except popular...only young ones are good for deer and grouse...30ft. and they get cut to sucker. Certain herbs stay for they are good protein and help in natural worming...read up on wild herbs....All wild berry stay.red,blackberry..May Apple's goose and currents, bearberry,cohlish...all nut trees stay. Many wildflowers stay,cone flower,jewel weed,tansy,bee balm 500ft etc.

Mr. Duke, promised myself I wouldn't provoke a rut trigger discussion this year! Being a good boy! Yes, good luck to all this year. May the hunting gods &/or lost partners smile down upon you.

For the ones that have wondered where your great deer scent came from and life on the farm you can have your chance. Sunday's at 5pm on the Pursuit Channel. The show is called ConQuest 200. They are the makers of Ever Calm deer stick. Interesting show if watched for what it is.

I am thankful that this conversation is even occuring, Doc. It gives me hope and shows me that we are thoughtful on this subject, even if we don't all agree.

There are more gun hunters so of course they shoot more. And statistically 95%+ of bow hunters also gun hunt. So what does it matter when I shoot my doe? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hello Hunters, No I don't have a BAR. But I do have a Browning sweet 16 with a 4x leupold scope on it. Shooting slugs at 100 yards it's deadly. Browning is top of the line.

A bit verbose maybe, but except for one big omission, I thought it was a good article. I especially liked the emphasis on the importance of the meat. We will never convince anti-hunters to go along with the whole "trophy-hunting" deal. There is way too much emphasis on killing only old, mature animals or those with massive headgear in today's hunting literature. What it lacked was some reference to God's creation and how he created the animals, birds, fish, and plants, for man to consume. I know that opens a can of worms with many but it is really the most important aspect of the whole deal. Forever hangs in the balance, not just the brief time we all get to spend here on earth.

IMO, no legal bearing. However, you original question was on ethics, not legality. Keep in mind that in NYS an employer can fire you at any time for "no reason." If I caught an employee doing this, I would consider it the same as theft and fire them immediately. If my employee needed a written policy to specifically spell out the unethical nature of this practice, I would not want them working for me.

No they are NOT...We get two dmps and an either sex...Not one bow hunter should be expected to burn their either sex on a doe the first 2 weeks...Many of us have more then one area of the state to hunt in and hunt other seasons..so we go for split tags...that leaves us with ONE doe tag to use that first 2wks. It isnot until NOV. 1 that we can go for any extra DMPs

It doesn't effect ratio. It effects the over-goal in terms of basic numbers. Bow is not the tool to use to reduce the numbers of female deer, if indeed that is your goal.In 3 seasons of Bow hunting I have had exactly 1 doe within shooting range. And yes, I shot her.

G-Man, let me ask a really obvious question. Not just to you, but to ALL the people talking about these changes.... They say that the changes were for population control, correct? They want to kill off a certain percentage of Does in some areas, correct? Why early bow season then?? They could make opening day of gun season Doe only and kill more Doe in 1 day then bow hunters could kill in an entire season. Bow hunters are such a tiny, tiny portion of deer kills, it makes no sense. I just won't hunt the first 2 weeks. The 15 or so people in my bow hunting circle said the same thing. This regulation will not change the amount of deer that are killed, it will just alter when they are killed. Next year the DEC will come up with another set of reactive hairbrain ideas that won't work. We are all just cogs in their revenue machine.

I have much respect for Charlie A. as a photographer, outdoorsman and writer. As far as his rut predictions go, I have found them to be hit or miss. Much more reliable, is tha calendar dates of November first to the fourteenth as the best two weeks to be in the deer woods for the rut. You can expect anything to happen at anytime, during those two weeks year in and year out.

"Most Americans aren't the sort of citizens the Founding Fathers expected; they are contented serfs. Far from being active critics of government, they assume that its might makes it right." —columnist Joseph Sobran (1946-2010) Most, but not all. But those that are not, are constantly being attacked for their opinions, by those that are. Though the majority may support a lie, it's still a lie!

So you are one of the ones that do not believe Xbow is a form of Archery? lol

It's nice to see a cva worker shoot something other then power belts..tell him not to let the boss find out