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We all have our own theories as to why hunters are dropping out, but not too many theories as to what to do about it. Most sign on to the weak attempts around special youth seasons. We throw our support around that thought and then declare that the problem is solved. I always thought that such programs are marginal at best in terms of effectiveness and instead supported more aggressive plans that in my mind would be a lot more effective. My favorite thought has always been for direct DEC involvement in public school assembly programs, and even school courses that taught outdoor activities including hunting and fishing. What a perfect way to recruit youth. Replies to that thought always involved a fair level of ridicule and comments that basically said that such a thing would never work and could never be accepted and implemented. Well imagine my surprise when I picked up the outdoor section of our local paper and learned that for the past 8 years, West Virginia has been doing exactly that and with an accompanying reversal in new license sales. Instead of the 20% drop in license sales over the last decade, they recorded an increase in sales of 9% per year since the school curriculum included a hunter education class. And apparently 6 other states have since introduced legislation to do exactly the same thing because of West Virginia's demonstrated success. A little out-of-the-box thinking has been applied with real positive and provable results. 17 states have passed laws to create "apprentice hunting licenses" which allows kids supervised by a trained mentor to sample the sport before completing the required 8-12 hour hunter safety course work. Other states have passed constitutional guarantees for hunting rights which essentially is a governmental endorsement of hunting. But here we are in NYS patting ourselves on the back for special youth seasons and then declaring success and walking away from any further thought on the subject. There are some states that are actually addressing the problem of shrinking hunter populations and showing positive results.

Single bead front site for me so I don't get too crazy. I'll plug this guy once or twice before season and see what rolls out the hole in his tail.,lol BTW- this is a 5 year old jake.... they are tough birds.

When one of these rascals took off right at your feet in the early morning darkness!!!!!

This one was taken in the afternoon around 4pm. back in 2013, think November 7th? In the one picture, I snapped a picture of a small 5 point that almost walked right up to my stand. This big guy must of smelled his prints and followed his trail right to my stand as well. rest is history!!! 1st 10 pointer taken in my life. Great feeling. Last picture is his mount on my wall.

Wooly isn't kidding here..His firearms aren't real high tech I've seen pictures of his turkey gun. I think it came over with the pilgrims on the Mayflower. I think his turkey load is half a handful of gravel and a few rusty nails.

I bet you have match sticks taped to your bow for pins as well ! Red and white is 20 yards Ohio blue tip is 30

I managed to get a better photograph of my crow friend. I threw out some peanuts for him and he's been here all day. The only problem is that the other crows dive bomb and attack him. Maybe they don't like him due to the banding ? If this crow was banded near Cornell , that's approximately 142 miles from my house. That's quite the distance "as the crow flies". He also has white and purple leg bands.

In the rare case you haven't seen my face plastered all over the forum, here's one of me with the wifey.

Its easier to make a good shot with less practice, so in turn you have less deer wounded by guys that go out there regardless of not putting in the proper amount of practice.

My friend is an executive of a local bank, and he nailed it: To paraphrase -- 'My life would be a lot easier if I would simply bend a knee to the federal government, but that action would run contrary to the needs of many of my customers. I'm forced to follow the duly constituted laws, but I won't be subject to the capricious nature of their wants.' He's a guy who gives a crap about his community, and his business is growing in spite of the federal government.

Here's my mug. Also see some guys posting pics on dirt bikes, so I'll post a couple pics of the last year I raced quads a few years ago. Raced harescrambles for 7 years and made it to the expert class before I decided to hang up the boots. Sold the quad and now I ride dirt bikes with some local guys just for fun. And now I spend all that extra $$ on the house and hunting lol

I thought a traditional bow and a compound were both considered vertical bows? <`shruggs`> Though they are bith vertical they are different, same as a long bow is different from a recurve, a wheeled compound, vs cam, each is a improvement over another technology. PA for example has a muzzleloader season but it is flintlock only, no scopes allowed, I primitive season,is just that a primitive season.. we have an archery season that allows all forms of bow,except the redheaded step child the crossbow. Which is still a string pushing a arrow from a bent bow ... I've said it before the only people that have a right to complain are the traditional recurve/long bow men. But they still continue to hunt with their implement of choice sise be side with the compound, yet compound hunters do not want to hunt side by side with a crossbow.. makes no sense. .... I even have a friend who hunts all of gun season with his bow because he likes it.. For those set against a crossbow , a question is have you ever shot one? And have you ever taken one in the woods in a hunting senairio? Have you heard the sound one makes when fired it's like a pop gun going off...never be able to get a second shot off in most circumstances. They arent the gun you believe them to be.... What's the old saying never judge someone till you walk a mile in their shoes....

You drew Larry's pickle......

Yes, mid bead with High Viz (I think) magnetic front sight. I've been using this high tech sight for a few years. One of the guys at the Gun Center gave it to me out of pity when he saw what I was using on my SBE................a weed stalk.

First off , good job on catching the rebate on the Heavi blends. When I first set up a turkey combo I also use the cardboard After that I'll check a gun at 35 yards on a turkey target. Both mine and daughters gun have bottom of the pattern covering low neck. Hate crunching pellets. They key is to aim a bit lower if they are super close. I need to throw one down range one of these days with my gun and Heavi just to check it. Did buy a box of Winny XR for testing purposes too. If I were you I'd throw one on paper at 20 and one at 40. I know you're going to like these babies

Homemade pierogi and venison pepper jack hotdogs from Costanzas . Forgot to take a picture so I had to draw from memory .....

These are the type of nefarious methods our government uses to eliminate our rights and freedoms when the US Constitution says they can't. If the Supreme Court of the US wasn't so politicized already, it would shut this abuse down the minute it starts. http://dailysignal.com/2016/04/02/in-voicemail-bank-says-it-no-longer-lends-to-firearms-dealers/?utm_source=TDS_Email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MorningBell&mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonu6TJe%2B%2FhmjTEU5z16OovWKS3gJ541El3fuXBP2XqjvpVQcNkMb3HRw8FHZNpywVWM8TIJNIUt9h1PwzhCG8%3D

Sounds like fear of the unknown to me. It would take longer to get this gun into action than one pulled from a waist band. Besides, idiots who fear guns wouldn't be getting all bent out of shape when they see someone carry it.

There is one crossbow disadvantage that I've experienced that is seldom talked about. Maybe someone has mentioned it, if so, here it is again.Trees (big and small) grow vertically. In a "Still Hunting" scenario getting around is not the only concern. Yes lacing through heavy cover is a bit more problematic with a crossbow but shooting from such cover is almost impossible. 1. The horizontal bow limbs of the crossbow need clearance. Yes, a standard bow may have a few branches to contend with but a crossbow has many vertical trunks to clear. There are fewer opportunities to hide. You ether step out sideways away from a tree or place the horizontal bow limbs and drawn string out in front of any vertical obstacles. 2. With a bow you can turn and pan past vertical obstacles before the draw. If drawn and following the target you have the option of dropping the draw and drawing again on the other side. The crossbow is drawn and the extra effort to monitor limb clearance and the motion to drop the crossbow to raise it up in a new channel is far greater than an inline let off, pivot and redraw required for the standard bow. It's been mentioned about the difficulty of a second shot. There crossbow involves more movement and takes three to five times longer (when compared to a bow) to cock an load that second shot. Not really an issue though as second shot opportunities seldom occur. For me the bow is a better weapon if I plan on still hunting for the day. The crossbow is my choice if I plan to sit in a blind. I can't speak for tree stand use because I've never been able to feel comfortable up there. I do know it's NOT recommended to cock a crossbow while in a tree stand.

Apparently not wearing a bra, that's what she's doing.

Whats Rachel Ray doing behind your wife??

Yea that will do it....having a owl swoop a you in the dark calling predators will too lol Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

If full inclusion happens, Ill finally buy one. I wont stop hunting with my compound though. I will use which ever one the situation calls for. Some of my stands would be no good for a crossbow.

Correct, and the crossbow hunters will have to be as well, since their effective range is no more than a compound bow in the hands of a skilled shooter. So what are you worried about? More dedicated, hard working hunters in the woods?

And this is exactly why guys are against crossbows, look at this mentality. This is also why crossbows will be popular with many guys because they feel it is easier than a vertical bow. Less practice=more wounded deer......

......"The old guy with the bum shoulder is kind of a horse ball reason for the xbow. A guy who's shoulder is bad enough that he can't shoot a vertical bow, is really going to use the xbow?" Never heard of the phrase "horse ball". Maybe I am not old enough. The answer to the above question is a REASOUNDING absof***inglutely. I am a guy whos shoulder is bad and I have used and will continue to use my xbow until I can no longer walk, crawl, limp, stumble, stagger, be pushed pulled, carried, carted, dragged, etc to the woods..... "Cocking a xbow with a bum shoulder ain't no fun, holding a xbow with a bum shoulder ain't no fun..." Cocking and holding an xbow with a bum shoulder is more do-able than holding a compound at full draw for a needed amount of time. You also have TWO shoulders in case you were not aware. One screwed up limits your compound use severely, not so much your XBOW use. "climbing a tree with a bum shoulder ain't no fun..." One does not need to climb a tree to shoot a deer . There is something called a ground-blind. Pretty cool invention. You can also climb a ladder stand one armed. You can also sit in a chair, on an apple crate, etc etc etc. "gutting and dragging out a deer with a bum shoulder ain't no fun. Face it, the xbow is for the healthy." Gutting and dragging by yourself .."aint no fun" but is do-able. Maybe there should be a provision that says "old injured bow hunters should be allowed to carry rifles during bow season." Ill vote for it.. I guess injured bow hunters should be rounded up and shot in the pasture. Just make sure you use a cross bow.. its more humane method.

A Ruger 10/22 that I was doing semi-auto bench rest with. It had a great thumbhole stock before the SAFE Act. The laminated Boyds stock in this photo never got the bedding work that the thumbhole had, mostly because I was angry... The receiver is Ruger. Boyds 'tacticool' stock. Mueller scope with Burris rings. Barrel, bolt, spring set, and 1.25# trigger from Kidd. It's a very light-weight setup for all day carry, and even without decent bedding it shoots well under 1/2" at 50 yards. I'll get to the bedding one of these days. :-] A little better 'posed' photo with some stock experimentation:

Happy Birthday! Party like it's 1999!......er...um....too late for that one. So just party!

Put the finishing touches on this guy today...

I like your thinking Dan. Seeing as its your logic, I'll buy a 6 pack of Genny Light and shoot an empty. Pics to follow............

This is tasting mighty nice Just went bowling with wife's work so no beer for liability reasons. I didn't want to " be that guy " either. I would have given Ray Charles a run for his money with a blistering 87 and 127.

I have wanted one of these chairs for a few years now for camping. G/f caught a sale and got me one as an early b-day gift. Now, after dinner when we are camping the only time I have to get up is to put more wood on the fire and to use the potty!

I understand where that thought comes from. It is simple..... Many (most?) gunhunters would love to force their way into bow seasons and enjoy the benefits that bowhunters have fought hard to establish over the years. They just don't want to use a bow and undergo all the pain of mastering that particular weapon. They want the bennys without the effort. Well now they have the crossover weapon that allows them to do that. We'll see if we become another Ohio where the bow season is now a "crossbow season" where they happen to allow you to still use your vertical bow. You have to admit that a crossbow is a very attractive alternative weapon for those who don't like all that archery form and discipline crap. So we wind up with a simple re-distributing of hunters from gun season to bow season. All those reasons that so many took up the bow for. The attempt to escape the frenetic party atmosphere of gun season for relative peace and quiet of the bowhunting world will undergo an irreversible change to something that represents a gun season without the bang.

If anyone wants to print out free turkey head / neck patterning decoys, here is a link. http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/free-targets.html

I met Elmo in real life, cool guy! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From the local boys in Utica, Saranac Black & Tan and Saranac IPA Legacy, and good old Utica Club Pilsner are fine with me. Al

Fortunatly my cousin lives there and can bring a case or two when he comes up to see my great uncle about every other month, we visit and have one or two and I take the rest home.

You don't have a .22 rifle ?? What the hell kind of a FARM BOY are you..??.....<<GRIN>>...

I am with Chris B,,,,,my preferred beer is ice cold....If I have to I will make due with cool but after that I am drinking something else....

I shoot a red dot on my turkey set up. I also remove it every summer to let the kids and family shoot clay pigeons and such. So in April when i put it back on, ill shoot it at 10-15 yards first. that way i can fine tune it more precisely by knowing the center of my pattern better, rather than guessing where the center of the pattern when its opened up some at 20-25 yards( depending on your gun). then ill shoot down range after the pattern is centered on the birds upper neck/head area. That is just the way i have always done it.. My Mossberg 535 with a 22" barrel and factory XXfull choke and Longbeard XR 3.5" #4 shot, will pattern good on paper out to 65 yards. Not saying i would shoot that far, but on paper it can do it.

Have a great birthday !!

I use to own a Remington .22 single shot many years ago, don't remember the model #? Have long since sold that gun. The rim fire gun I now own is a CZ - 452 American in the .17HMR caliber. This one is a tack driver right out to 75 yards. After that, the wind plays havoc with that little .17 gr pill. I wish I could shoot that gun more, but have been quite busy of late working on other projects.

Well anyone else sick of shoveling?!!!!!

Bring in The Walking Dead season finale

You're off the mark with the crossbow theory to some degree. I wrote the survey. Crossbows, and other implants/regs have the deer community divided. My goal was to remove such divisions and have unity in deer hunters responses. Personally I think our own internal turmoil can be part of how we as a whole get railroaded with bad umbrella level regs. I thought the survey was rather unbiased in most regards. You should start a survey for crossbows and see if you're right or not.

Got to be one of best posts in this thread...lmaoSent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Good thing the title of this thread isn't "Show Your Puss".

My kid got this one today.

There was a thread on AT where guys went outside in the morning and fired one shot at 30 or whatever and posted a pic. We should do that come August

Here is the one that afflicted me with the Rimfire disease. The Remington 541S was based on their target model called the 541X. Some of you folks may remember Remington's economy rifle the 788, it had rear locking lugs and an extremely fast lock time that resulted in accuracy that many times surpassed their flagship model 700. The 541S is basically a mini 788 action with the same type of rear locking lugs and a very fast lock time. Al