Looks like the Columbus Day Youth season is on!

[fasteddie]

The dec expects 8000 participants in the youth hunt.. thats 8000 across the entire state. Not a lot to worry about in my opinion.

Yes , and with some luck 7999 of them will be hunting around the Cuba , NY area !

[nyantler]

At the risk of whizzing off those who like this idea, I hope I can express my view as well without coming under attack. I think this youth special youth stuff is BS. Having grown up without a father in the home, it was my uncles who introduced me to hunting and fishing. The time we sent together was some of the most meaningful of my life and I looked forward to each opening day "trout season", "pike season", "bass season", wood chuck hunting, "squirrel season", "bow season for deer", "gun season for deer" and then beagles for "rabbit season".

It was not only the "hunting" aspect but also the time with caring adults, their support and encouragement, the stories and laughing, the entire experience that came with the preparation for and buildup to the experience of the coming "season". Fishing since about seven years old and hunting since about age 13, I am as active and excited each year at 53 for the coming of each "season". With my own kids grown and gone, now days I have nephews to keep pumped up, and we hunt on the land I now own. I have come a long way from the little kid growing up in the middle of the city, who likely without the influence of my grandfather and uncles, would have had an entirely different life than I do. I have been an active game club member over the years, a county level sportsmen representative and introduced both kids and adults to the joy of hunting.

After all this chatter, I guess I don't understand the need to carve out a few days to put young kids along with their adult "companion" in the woods for additional opportunity to take deer or turkeys. I guess I'm a bit jaded in my older years, because I see this driven as much by adults wanting to get an upper hand to take game early under the guise of doing something for "kids" than actually doing anything for young hunters.

I just don't see the need for special seasons, when for me every season has always been "special", and with almost three month long deer season's in New York, there seems plenty of time and opportunity to help shape and mentor new hunters both young and old to experience hunting season as something "special" and not just a chance to shoot an animal.

Peace,

NYH

I am not against the youth day.. but I think it is unnecessary as well... everyday can be youth day without keeping adult hunters out of the woods... those 8000 youths don't need a special day to have someone take them hunting... take them hunting every day.. now that would be special!

[WNY Bowhunter]

I am not against the youth day.. but I think it is unnecessary as well... everyday can be youth day without keeping adult hunters out of the woods... those 8000 youths don't need a special day to have someone take them hunting... take them hunting every day.. now that would be special!

My sentiments exactly!!!

[Skillet]

I am not against the youth day.. but I think it is unnecessary as well... everyday can be youth day without keeping adult hunters out of the woods... those 8000 youths don't need a special day to have someone take them hunting... take them hunting every day.. now that would be special!

Well said, Joe.

[Doc]

As for the gunshots scaring deer into hiding, i live in the country,that has a lot less effect than every " weekend warrior" coming out 1 to 2 weekends before season shooting their guns/ hammering treestands/ driving atv's around " scouting". The youth hunt is still a go without the crossbowbill being signed. The fault lies with several outdoor news papers saying it was cancelled because of xbow bill, that bill is not law yet. The dec expects 8000 participants in the youth hunt.. thats 8000 across the entire state. Not a lot to worry about in my opinion.

I probably agree with more of this post than most bowhunters. I have no idea where they came up with this 8000 number, and it is probably as valid as most of their numerical guestimates (and that definitely is not an endorsement of their numbers .... lol). It might even be a high estimate. I'm thinking that we probably won't even be aware it's going on. It's basically window dressing that pretty much amounts to a wasted effort that makes everybody think the recruitment problem is solved. And I really don't like anything that drives the acceptance of deer hunting with guns being stirred into deer hunting with bows. With everybody jealously eyeballing the bow season, I can see this as being used as a precedent for future incursions of firearms deer hunting in bow season. It's all incrementalism at work.

[Meat First]

Im wearing blaze orange that weekend, to have kids who are too young to be shooting rifles in the woods during bow season is nuts(IMO). CRAZY IDEA DEC. If they want a youth hunt fine but shut down bow for three days it wont kill us. Being shot might.

[WNYBuckHunter]

[Buckstopshere]

Doc: I got confirmation from a DEC spokesperson a few minutes ago that "Per you inquiry below, yes, DEC issued an official press release announcing that the first-ever Youth Firearms Season will take place this Columbus Day Weekend; October 6, 7, and 8; 2012.

The DEC website is being updated accordingly."

So I was right, the website hadn't been updated. So anyone following the first url in the release will stil see the conflicting message (i.e. the youth season is on...the youth season is off...) until they update the site.

But "the Yute" season is on!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Im wearing blaze orange that weekend, to have kids who are too young to be shooting rifles in the woods during bow season is nuts(IMO). CRAZY IDEA DEC. If they want a youth hunt fine but shut down bow for three days it wont kill us. Being shot might.

Don't go in the woods and pretend it is closed..lol

[mt624]

That's all very nice history and nothing new and of course I already know all that and my complaint about the DEC has absolutely nothing to do with who is or who isn't to blame for the status of the season. Re-read my message and you will understand that the complaint is clearly about communication (or more specificly the lack of communication) to the public as to what the status of the season is. If indeed the youth season is definitely on and the DEC intends to administer it, I have to wonder why the responsibility for informing the public seems to lie with various obscure newpapers. I am wondering why there simply isn't a very clear press release (included on their web-site) that clearly says that the hunt is cleared and ok, so that the public can participate without confusion. This announcement by rumor is not the right way to do it. If it is not on, they should also make that clear. Hell, even if there still is a question about it they should say something about that. You do realize that we are only a couple weeks away? Anyone trying to make arrangements for a mentor is quickly running out of time. I have extreme doubts about the effectiveness of this hunt, but the way they are screwing up informing the public, they certainly aren't making it any more effective.

Doc, I suggest you sign up for the NY Big Game email list - I got an official release about the youth hunt today. Here's the link: http://lists.dec.state.ny.us/mailman/listinfo/nybiggame

And at the bottom of their email is another source for updates via email:

You may also catch the latest updates on New York's fish and wildlife by subscribing to Field Notes, another free online e-mail list provided by the Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources. To learn more and subscribe, see www.dec.ny.gov/about/63801.html

This has been a good resource for information straight from the source, as you are asking for. I assume it is where many of the news sources also get leads. I find they send this information to the email list before the website is updated sometimes.

Edited September 17, 2012 by mt624

[bubba]

Im wearing blaze orange that weekend, to have kids who are too young to be shooting rifles in the woods during bow season is nuts(IMO). CRAZY IDEA DEC. If they want a youth hunt fine but shut down bow for three days it wont kill us. Being shot might.

and they can hunt all regular season too. Geesh you make it sound like they are all out to shoot anything that moves. Statistically the kids who just complete a hunter ed class are safer than the parents who will be accompanying them. It is all good. We will all survive to hunt another day.

[Larry]

Wow some of the NYB guys are going to get there panties in a knot.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Larry

[burmjohn]

I posted the press release in the DEC section and on the portal.

Sent from my Nexus 7

[shooter]

Ok my turn! I am totally against the youth gun hunt. I am against all the youth hunts actually. And I am a father. I have been hunting a long time and started at the young age of 14 with my father. He taught me the way of the woods and how to be a true sportsmen. I looked forward to all those times and it was a honor and privilage to hunt with him and all the older crowd. There was no special treatments or oppurtunities I had to learn to hang and act like an adult, be respectful and listen to what they told me to do. It seems to me with youth hunts such as this one it only shows how spoiled todays youth can be by giving them special privilages as if they deserved it cause they are kids. Our role as mentors to our youth about hunting should be proper sportsmenship and understanding of the outdoors. But on the same token we should be mentoring them on the facts of life and how we do not get special privilages just because. Now I know this may seem a bit harsh and will probably get alot of negative comments but it is how I feel. Like I said I am a father. My child is much to young to hunt but someday she may if she chooses and I will Mentor her like my father did to me. Now I know what's done is done and we have had a special youth hunt for waterfowl, turkey and pheasants for years now and it was only a matter of time before deer would follow. Could New York State and DEC come up with a better date? Oct 1st bow hunt, 1st time ever good portion of the state is allowed to hunt 2 weeks earlier then normal. Now Oct 1st falls on a Monday, some of us will get out for the opener but majority will be out the 1st Saturday. Now guys will be in full camo and since its still early October trees and brush will still have full cover making it very difficult to see. Now your putting a firearm in the hands of a unexperienced youth. Regardless if the adult is right along side of them the youth is still the one pulling the trigger. And in a lot of regions some of these kids will be using high powered rifles. No where does it state in 2012-13 guide or even on the website to stay out of the woods, nor does it say for the rest of bow hunters wear manditory blaze orange! I just dont get it sorry just my opinion. I personally feel that if indeed a youth deer hunt is necessary then why not the Saturday and Sunday the gun opener is now, close bow hunting that weekend and bring back the Monday opener for the rest!! Makes sense to me

[Terry]

I don't think the special youth season was implemented for the hunters who also happen to be good fathers and will raise their children to be hunters no matter what. I think the DEC had the other guy in mind. The selfish ass who doesn't want to share opening day. You have to remember that when they change laws they have to take into consideration all types of people both good and bad. There will definitely be guys using the season to shoot bucks themselves, but you have to also realize that there will be a lot that don't. We NEED more youth hunters. If this season ignites a spark in just a few it's well worth the negatives.

And as far as the safety aspect, I don't see how two sets of eyes and thinking brains can't be safer than one. Cause remember, these youth need to be accompanied by an adult.

[Doc]

Well, I suppose it is once again about time to repeat the same old question that no one seems to want to address. If mentors are missing or unwilling during the regular season, just where are all these mentors supposed to be coming from? And now with all the wisdom that the DEC could muster, they have made a good portion of the few available mentors choose between the bow season and the youth season. Good going DEC .... lol.

By the way, has anybody ever heard a good explanation why the DEC chose to stuff the youth season right into the bow season? ..... anybody?? What was the rationale? Just to create controversy and dischord? Again ... good going DEC. But anyway ..... let's blame the NYB.

[SteveB]

Great post Trout

[growalot]

I'll answer that Doc...Because they want the guys that won't pick up a regular bow to go out into the woods to mentor these kids and see what bow hunters see ...then when the crossbow legislation comes back up they will have many more ppl out there wanting to back it...Then they can increase deer takes during bow and increase needed sales in bow or LTB

There ... is as good an answer as any...

[mt624]

Well, I suppose it is once again about time to repeat the same old question that no one seems to want to address. If mentors are missing or unwilling during the regular season, just where are all these mentors supposed to be coming from? And now with all the wisdom that the DEC could muster, they have made a good portion of the few available mentors choose between the bow season and the youth season. Good going DEC .... lol.

By the way, has anybody ever heard a good explanation why the DEC chose to stuff the youth season right into the bow season? ..... anybody?? What was the rationale? Just to create controversy and dischord? Again ... good going DEC. But anyway ..... let's blame the NYB.

Doc,

With all due respect, you are complaining about the flow of information, rumors, etc. yet you post these random questions claiming no one is asking them and they are of utmost importance... Then point fingers and place blame. Were you around over the past two years when the DEC put this out for public discussion, posted information updates, held public meetings, took feedback through multiple sources?

No one says bow or gun hunters NEED to hunt these 3 days, it is simply an option now that was not there in the past. I do not like the plan but it is set for now. If you're concerned, wear orange, don't hunt, take a youth, plenty of options. I believe some of the DEC's reasoning was the holiday weekend would allow families time to hunt and not interfere with school, and it is typically mild weather. I think they also claimed that people who bowhunt are more likely to recruit their kids into hunting due to the increased length of that season, whereas people who only gun hunt have less time to do so.

Again, I think this plan is far from perfect but at this point it's a little late to whine and moan about it, DEC gave us that opportunity over the past two years and is closed now. Give it a chance. Spread the word so fellow hunters on both sides know it's going on. Maybe it will get some kids out in the woods who otherwise wouldn't be. At least they are trying, and they sure as heck gave plenty of opportunity for feedback leading up to this. If it doesn't work, hopefully they will see that and change it. But again, it is an opportunity that we as hunters have not had in the past. No one is saying you need to use it.

Edited September 18, 2012 by mt624

[d-bone20917]

Again, I think this plan is far from perfect but at this point it's a little late to whine and moan about it, DEC gave us that opportunity over the past two years and is closed now.

The problem is that the number of gun only hunters far out number those of us that bow hunt. So the comments are always going to be biased in favor of the gun only hunters because they could care less about the bow season.

[steve863]

Could New York State and DEC come up with a better date? Oct 1st bow hunt, 1st time ever good portion of the state is allowed to hunt 2 weeks earlier then normal. Now Oct 1st falls on a Monday, some of us will get out for the opener but majority will be out the 1st Saturday.

Very good point here. So with the youth hunt on Columbus day weekend, bowhunters don't really get the normal bowhunting woods back until the weekend of the 13th, which brings them pretty much back to the same boat they were before when bowhunting opened closer to the middle of the month. So in essence bowhunters have gained very little with the season opener on the 1st. I tell you the more I think about this youth season, the less I like it. I think it will bring out more of the yahoo hunters who want to drag a kid a long just so they can kill that spike or forkhorn for them that they wouldn't be able to kill otherwise in the AR units. I honestly think there will be MORE of these types out during this youth hunt than the legitimate mentor/kid.

[Doc]

Doc,

With all due respect, you are complaining about the flow of information, rumors, etc. yet you post these random questions claiming no one is asking them and they are of utmost importance... Then point fingers and place blame. Were you around over the past two years when the DEC put this out for public discussion, posted information updates, held public meetings, took feedback through multiple sources?

No one says bow or gun hunters NEED to hunt these 3 days, it is simply an option now that was not there in the past. I do not like the plan but it is set for now. If you're concerned, wear orange, don't hunt, take a youth, plenty of options. I believe some of the DEC's reasoning was the holiday weekend would allow families time to hunt and not interfere with school, and it is typically mild weather. I think they also claimed that people who bowhunt are more likely to recruit their kids into hunting due to the increased length of that season, whereas people who only gun hunt have less time to do so.

Again, I think this plan is far from perfect but at this point it's a little late to whine and moan about it, DEC gave us that opportunity over the past two years and is closed now. Give it a chance. Spread the word so fellow hunters on both sides know it's going on. Maybe it will get some kids out in the woods who otherwise wouldn't be. At least they are trying, and they sure as heck gave plenty of opportunity for feedback leading up to this. If it doesn't work, hopefully they will see that and change it. But again, it is an opportunity that we as hunters have not had in the past. No one is saying you need to use it.

Lol .... With all due respect, was there some kind of answer to my question about mentors buried in all that? How those questions relate to my comments about the flow of information and rumors beats the hell out of me. I guess that was just a random shot aimed at who knows what. And was there something over the past two years where the DEC explained about where these mysterious mentors were going to come from when they are so obviously missing during the regular season? I must have missed it.

As far as the bowhunters becoming the mentors, It seems to me that they have simply removed a large percentage of them as mentors by making them choose between their season and the gun mentoring. Have they changed the law about bowhunting alongside of someone possessing a firearm? So that comment didn't make a whole lot of sense did it? No more than placing the youth season inside of a bow season did. The weather argument? .... well we have already done that one multiple times, but if you insist that kids need to be fooled about the comfort levels of hunting season, September provided a whole month of nice toasty weather. The holiday argument? .... just another date when there are all kinds of family activities competing with a youth hunt that wouldn't have to be dealt with on a normal weekend. So let me amend my question a bit: Has anybody ever heard a good explanation why the DEC chose to stuff the youth season right into the bow season .... that makes any sense?

Look, I have been known to be a bit of an apologist for the DEC too on occasion. But when they screw up, I am quick to comment on that too. But DEC or no DEC, I am still looking for someone to stop dodging the question about where they think all these mentors will be coming from. It's a serious question and nobody seems to have an answer.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So let me amend my question a bit: Has anybody ever heard a good explanation why the DEC chose to stuff the youth season right into the bow season .... that makes any sense?

Sure. Because it has worked just fine in other states. No bow hunters being shot out of trees, archery seasons not being ruined. In fact, I have yet to read or hear about all of these horror stories that everyone is worried about, going on in other states that have had these early youth hunts in place.

Also, the reasoning on why they put it at that time was to allow the kids into the woods when the chances of good weather and calm deer were better.

[G-Man]

Well, youth hunt for turkey was a big concern for many as well. I have had the privlege of taking a youth out every year since this season and have seen the smiles on their parents faces when they take a turkey and the joy of seeing a kid hooked on hunting! .Where are all the poachers killing birds using the youth season to their advantage? Maybe there are some out there? . As for being opening weekend of bow for youth gun season, it falls that way this year, is it bad luck?If you have such dire concerns don't hunt or wear orange! I never could hunt that weekend before anyway with bow before season date changes... I for one make every opening day whether it be a mon or anyday, most die hards do. I seem to remember a lot of bow hunters complaining oct 1 is to early, to warm,to much foliage and they wouldn't hunt anyway that early... The dec could just close bow for those 3 days every year, but i put up with turkey hunters,grouse,small game, duck and goose hunters all bow anyway. And with the exception of turkey huntersi hear a lot more shots from them than i expect from a kid hunting deer off the ground with an adult.. Nessary youth hunt maybe not in a perfect world, but with so much outside stimulus and electronics i'll be glad to see the youth hunt in effect! Is a different world from when i could walk out the back yard in the subburbs and hunt! My old stomping grounds is now a large development in lancaster,ny.. I think is a good way to get kids interested in the outdoors, even if they don't get anything.

[Doc]

Again, I think this plan is far from perfect but at this point it's a little late to whine and moan about it, DEC gave us that opportunity over the past two years and is closed now.

By the way, I agree that it is a done deal now and that we are arguing over something that is unlikely to change. But my biggest fear is that it will be generally accepted that the DEC has done something significant here and all future thoughts relative to real, serious, constructive, efforts to remedy recruitment problems will cease as we all go on our merry way patting ourselves on the back and thinking the problem is solved. The supposed solution is cast in stone, but the effectiveness of it is very much in question and logic tells me that we simply have applied feel-good window dressing to a problem that needs some real innovation and serious brain-storming of new ideas. But if we should stop debating the DEC solution, we feed into that mentality that all is now well. I really don't want to see that happen.