Who wants Yearling Buck Protection with ARs in their area?

[Larry]

what is this, the off season past time. we do the ar thing at the end of every season

[Doc]

what is this, the off season past time. we do the ar thing at the end of every season

Ha-ha, the thing is that everyone has just come off a season of not seeing all the huge bucks that they see on TV, and are now all upset about that. So naturally, it gets them started on the subject all over again.

That's ok, we just have to get through our 10 pages or so, and then we can move onto some other area of controversy. It's already starting to wind down.

[Zag]

What if we could eliminate the people shooting button bucks each season? Think about how many more 1.5yr olds we would produce each yr, then how many of those turn into 2.5yr olds? Add that into our current buck population and I think we have a better adult buck herd and more mature bucks!! Here are the DEC Stats,

Antlerless Take

(fawns and adult does)

5yr avg 113,668

Buck Fawns in Antlerless Take

5yr avg 17.8%

Maybe if we start making people tag button bucks with their buck tags those numbers will decrease? Just a though.

[josephmrtn]

i feel that AR helps guys like me who WANT to save the young bucks (2-4-6pts) and shoot more big bucks (7-8-9-10 pts) however every 2 or 4 pt buck we pass on we cringe cause we know the neighbor WILL shoot that buck if he is seen.... and it makes us take shots at smaller deer.... my one neighbor is a really nice guy and when i told him about my buck he said he had that exact buck in front of him but didnt shoot cause it looked a little young, and he was very glad he didnt shoot cause it enabled me to have the experience of shooting my first buck... him and one other guy (and son) are the three "nice law abiding" guys they are all older and dont hunt for meat so much anymore they look for quality mature bucks..., the rest around here are poachers...

[Paula]

Are you saying that they are poachers because they will shoot any deer? Or are you calling them poachers because you know that they are?

Edited January 20, 2013 by paula

[growalot]

I have to agree with the button buck post...that said though..... I admit that over the years I have had a couple of accidents and a couple of mercy kills and threw a doe tag on them....

My first muzzle deer down at camp...I looked and looked and the way the two deer were standing and the size of the button compared to his fawn sister...he looked like a doe and I was very unhappy when I got to him...I had no buck tag so it would have been an illegal shooting

There are times....such as muzzle season and in very cold temps where they are all puffed out or at a distance in the snow.... being able to see the button is almost impossible.

I think the brown down.... shoot all the doe ....is the reason such a high number of buttons are taken....Maybe quality doe takes should be a topic of discussion....

Edited January 20, 2013 by growalot

[josephmrtn]

im saying they tresspass on other peoples land, they shoot deer and never recover them, they night hunt, hunt with rifles in muzz season, and in general break laws.... this area of NY seems notorious for it... the Game wardens could stay very busy if there was a way to catch these guys in the act.... just this year we had a spike shot ON OUR LAND by a poacher who when i and BigBuckBoy (my hunting partner) walked up to him and his crackhead friends he spewed lies like it was going out of style (oh no we NEVER went on your land, yes i shot at a deer but it was not on your land, no your friend must be mistaken about seeing me walking across the middle of your field looking for blood, blah blah blah)... the next day i went back and followed the blood trail and it was CLEARLY shot ON OUR LAND i never found the deer even to i trailed it for about 500 yards (a lot of the way on my hands and knees) the blood ended in a hay field and i could not find any more. i susspect it was a bad hit. also we found there boot tracks out there several more times during the season and one time we were going in circles trying to get close to them so we could get a pic or even just a look at them for positive identity but they left the property before we got the chance and i was not about to tresspass so i could prove they were tresspassing... (im talking about 1/4 mile circles) i get sick of trying to patrol my place.... some places ive started fixing the old barbed wire fences around our property, closing the deer/poacher trails and hanging posted signs from the wire (deer can jump over)... i guess this year we will see if it works

Edited January 20, 2013 by josephmrtn

[Paula]

Hope it does work for you and stops the trespassing. I have started to buy new signs for my hunting spot.

[Zag]

If infact u had to tag a button buck as a buck, The brown its down mentality would severly deminish in my eyes. Imagine if people actually had to think before they shot. But it would never fly.

[Doc]

What if we could eliminate the people shooting button bucks each season? Think about how many more 1.5yr olds we would produce each yr, then how many of those turn into 2.5yr olds? Add that into our current buck population and I think we have a better adult buck herd and more mature bucks!! Here are the DEC Stats,

Antlerless Take

(fawns and adult does)

5yr avg 113,668

Buck Fawns in Antlerless Take

5yr avg 17.8%

Maybe if we start making people tag button bucks with their buck tags those numbers will decrease? Just a though.

Of course that assumes you have a buck tag left. A lot of people will take a buck when the opportunity presents itself, leaving them with only antlerless permits left.

[16. ga hunter]

i've thought about this good and hard and after being told how bad the buck population is maybe they should just close buck hunting all together for a few years that should grow the age structure .......

[jjb4900]

i've thought about this good and hard and after being told how bad the buck population is maybe they should just close buck hunting all together for a few years that should grow the age structure .......

I agree, as long as we can still shoot button bucks.

[pennsyltucky]

No, No, No, No, No, No, No, Nooooooooo

Two things, first I live in PA, in an area with a good deer population. the first 8 years of AR i had to pass up 32 bucks. 4 of those bucks were huge. 3 were 6 points without brow tines and the other was a half rack 3. i was not happy. Also it has not changed the size of our deer in my area. we have always had a wide range of bucks in this area and we still do. I live in an area with a ton of public hunting access everywhere and does it get hunted. the deer i remember the most was a spike, it was my first deer and it was when i found out my father inlaw didn't hate me. focus on habitat, habitat, habitat.

[growalot]

Ya because who needs do to produce future bucks just shoot all of them ..Or do you think ppl hunt only because they want antlers?

Zag the point I was making is that it is not always clear cut even when your taking the time to look.....ie... big difference in what a doe looks like at our home hunting area and down at our camp........ example of two mature doe...at home they have very long narrow noses and camp thicker hair and shorter wider heads and noses

Edited January 20, 2013 by growalot

[16. ga hunter]

no grow you can't shoot all the doe just the normal allotment from the fellas at our dec..... they want 1.5 protection give it to them close the buck season and then cut back doe permits where needed oh and then when they open buck season back up only one buck tag no matter what lisc. you buy

[Zag]

I do get ur point. I have the same situation as you (home vs camp). I dont shoot yearlings, yet one time I did miss judge. It can be a challenge. At the end of the day nothing will change.

[SteveB]

they want 1.5 protection give it to them

DEC isn't saying they want 1.5 protection.

Hunters who want to shoot 2.5's (young, immature bucks) are the ones whining for it.

Edited January 21, 2013 by SteveB

[16. ga hunter]

steve b i know this they was referring to the "hunters" that whine for it but then shoot the 1.5's any how because they can't seem to stop themselves

[nyantler]

DEC isn't saying they want 1.5 protection.

Hunters who want to shoot 2.5's (young, immature bucks) are the ones whining for it.

I do have a similar concern as you in that the protection can't change the mindset of those that are not participating in AR's for it's beneficial purpose which should be to stretch the age stucture of the buck population... it is the same reason why voluntary AR's fall short as well... the AR "movement" so to speak has taken on a trophy management mentality. Because everyones definition of trophy is different only an understanding or willingness to expand the age structure by a majority of hunters will accomplish that goal.

Although I personally won't lose a minute of sleep regardless of how the whole AR debate plays out because it will have no affect on my hunting at all, I still have a strong opinion of what AR's can accomplish. Based on my observations of NY hunter mentality and knowledge of whitetails I'm pretty sure that a good buck age structure in NY will never happen in my lifetime...

It seems as if the many if not most hunters are content having overpopulated deer herds that are healthy enough to survive most winters, made up of predominantly yearling bucks and skewed buck:doe ratios... IMO if thats what the hunters in NY want then there is no sense having the whole AR debate... we should just move on with the status quo.

[SteveB]

We agree.

[growalot]

Well talk to me when our fellas at the DEC can get their doe allotments correct...Here in 8N were all of us can get 4 doe tags a year...ps that's not with sign overs...if it weren't for the hunters that live here..... realizing what filling those tags would do to the herds...we'd be in the same situation as 8M next door........ where getting a doe tag has just started getting better after 6 years where DEC made an error. Ask Fast Eddie how his season went ...he hunts there

I know this area...so tell me why is it that they had to.... not only put in AR's but also limit doe tags in those AR areas? I ask because I don't know those areas....

Why is it that in the areas that have the most doe tags handed out they also have the biggest buck take and some of the biggest racked buck taken?...I mean doesn't the above question scream an area with skewed buck to doe ratios and thus an unhealthy herd dynamic?...should we be seeing ...what?...scrawny under sized deer?

Edited January 21, 2013 by growalot

[KenAxe-7]

ANTLER RESTRICTIONS STATEWIDE!!!!

Too many clowns out there shooting everything they see.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

ANTLER RESTRICTIONS STATEWIDE!!!!

Dont forget>> Shorter seasons, One buck only-Per year and no guns with the rut!

11 Pages! lol

[SteveB]

ANTLER RESTRICTIONS STATEWIDE!!!!

Too many clowns out there shooting everything they see.

Someone is a clown for shooting a 1.5 4 pt.

But not a clown for shooting a 1.5 (or even a 2.5) 8 pt?

Tell me you only shoot mature bucks that you think may be at least 4.5.

Otherwise you are the same as the hunter shooting a 4 pt - both are shooting immature bucks.

[WNYBuckHunter]

ANTLER RESTRICTIONS STATEWIDE!!!!

Too many clowns out there shooting everything they see.

....says the clown trying to push their personal standards on everyone else....