Best survival rifle ever made

[Hunter007]

27 minutes ago, Belo said:

i'm sure why it hit such a nerve. the whole thing is clearly pretend... that's the fun of it.

before you leave for good can you please just answer my question though. Why does leo and military not carry .22? 

(Why does military not carry .22 ) because the milatery has Logistics a supply chain to get more ammo to front line troops that  single person will not have in a SHTF scenario .

If your on your own no vehicle on foot with no way to resupply  carrying  lighter  and more ammo probably more beneficial to you then carrying more bulky  powerful ammo.

That is not as  big of a problem for a army with a supply chain so they can afford to use bigger more powerful ammo . Plus there objectives are  little bit different than just survival.

They did issue ar7 in 22 to pilots   for survival.

[Buckmaster7600]

i'm sure why it hit such a nerve. the whole thing is clearly pretend... that's the fun of it.
before you leave for good can you please just answer my question though. Why does leo and military not carry .22? 

The military and many LEO's do carry a .22.

The reason why the military and Leo's and civilians don't depend on a 22lr as a practical defense cartridge is the lack of energy to get the bullet to the important areas.


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[Buckmaster7600]

you're both talking about well placed shots. Please see my previous post about how easy these well placed shots are under a defense situation and if not, something that every deer hunter knows is never a certainty. So why can't i deer hunt with a .22 if it's so magical? Why don't armies and leo's pack this wonder cartridge? Why does just about everybody on this board when asked about home defense point to a short barreled shotgun? 
and statistically do you think more people drop from a .22 or more keep on trucking after 15 shots from a .40? (a story ive never heard of btw).

Never once did I say anything about a 22lr being my number 1 choice of cartridge my point was about the fictional "stopping power" you brought up. Well aimed shots are important no matter what your carrying if you want instant incapacitation the only way to do that reliably is with a hit to the CNS.


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[Five Seasons]

12 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

The military and many LEO's do carry a .22.

The reason why the military and Leo's and civilians don't depend on a 22lr as a practical defense cartridge is the lack of energy to get the bullet to the important areas.


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by and large they do not carry .22's. for the very reason you mentioned is the very reason I'd take a few less rounds for a superior cartridge like the .30 carbine. or a 9. forget humans, if i had to feed myself, I'd like to eat more than just squirrel. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Belo

[Culvercreek hunt club]

17 hours ago, Storm914 said:

(Why does military not carry .22 ) because the milatery has Logistics a supply chain to get more ammo to front line troops that  single person will not have in a SHTF scenario .

If your on your own no vehicle on foot with no way to resupply  carrying  lighter  and more ammo probably more beneficial to you then carrying more bulky  powerful ammo.

That is not as  big of a problem for a army with a supply chain so they can afford to use bigger more powerful ammo . Plus there objectives are  little bit different than just survival.

They did issue ar7 in 22 to pilots   for survival.

but that is a concern even for the armed forces. That is why the m-16 came around. The ability for each soldier to carry more ammo and have an effective round (and that debate still exists) inside most common combat situations. 

[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

but that is a concern even for the armed forces. That is why the m-16 came around. The ability for each soldier to carry more ammo and have an effective round (and that debate still exists) inside most common combat situations. 

I know  thats why they down sized from 30_06 ammo and it is even more of a issue when you are on your own with no suply chain to rely on thus a 22 lr and hand gun ammo  becomes even more attractive to  preppers / survivalist.  Who plan for those end of times scenarios 

[chas0218]

6 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

but that is a concern even for the armed forces. That is why the m-16 came around. The ability for each soldier to carry more ammo and have an effective round (and that debate still exists) inside most common combat situations. 

Exactly, I have friends that fought in the Iraq war and said that the .223 was on the small size for humans and when they shot someone it would take 2 or 3 hits to completely disable the person with center of mass hits.

This isn't the movies we are talking about when a guy gets hit from a .223 round and it slings the body back and you see blood gushing out the front and back of the person shot. The .223 was not meant to exit and was meant to wound not kill. The idea is that you will have more people trying to help the wounded taking more than 1 out of the battle per a person shot.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Exactly, I have friends that fought in the Iraq war and said that the .223 was on the small size for humans and when they shot someone it would take 2 or 3 hits to completely disable the person with center of mass hits.

This isn't the movies we are talking about when a guy gets hit from a .223 round and it slings the body back and you see blood gushing out the front and back of the person shot. The .223 was not meant to exit and was meant to wound not kill. The idea is that you will have more people trying to help the wounded taking more than 1 out of the battle per a person shot.

It wasn't meant to wound and the biggest issue with performance like that is caused by the FMJ ammunition. What storm said about a CNS hit really is a big deal with that ammo. I don't totally agree with him in terms of other ammo. If you gel a persons' or animals insides they are going down right now. 

The design criteria for the  rifle was to penetrate a helmet at 500 yards, retain sonic speed at that distance and and beating the 30 carbine for performance. it does all that but a .22 hole in and a .22 hole out without shedding all or most energy does little to put a target down without a CNS hit. Hell, I've body shot squirrels with a round nose 22LR and had them hold on to the tree and not fall until they bled out. with a hollow point that doesn't happen. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Jdubs]

Best rifle for surviving what?  I have backpacked the ADK's plenty and never even packed a pistol.  Then again, I wasn't on a weeks-long trek or going off the grid, so to speak.  The worst "survival" situation I've had at home was an ice storm that knocked out power for 3 days.  No firearm needed then either.

If the scenario is surviving up to 30 days in the woods while covering a lot of ground, then I'd want a lightweight 22lr rifle and a brick of ammo.  All the gear I'd ever need easily fits into a 70L pack and toting a heavy SG or rifle with ammo would really suck.  Besides, food can also be acquired with fishing and trapping so why add weight?   The only reason I'd change this answer would be if you dropped me into grizzly territory. 

If the scenario is hunkering down at home or bugging out to a secluded location, then I would want a semi-auto .308, something like a SCAR 17 SBR with a can.  A rifle like that can problem solve pretty much any 2 or 4 legged situation.  However, these sorts of "survival scenarios" are easily planned for ahead of time so that one wouldn't be limited to just one firearm.

[Five Seasons]

what are you guys eating in the woods for 30 days besides squirrels? 

[airedale]

42 minutes ago, Belo said:

what are you guys eating in the woods for 30 days besides squirrels? 

If I was in an actual survival situation where I have to hunt my food in order to stay alive I would not be too picky. Everything would be on the menu, Squirrels and Chipmunks would be good for starters, just about any bird species with some meat on it's bones would be a target. Rabbits, Hare, Possums, Coons and Porcupines had better head for cover also. A Deer would not be safe either. My little Savage 24 would keep me fed with no problem.

Al

Edited January 4, 2018 by airedale

[Jdubs]

35 minutes ago, Belo said:

what are you guys eating in the woods for 30 days besides squirrels? 

Squirrel, rabbit and fish with sides of nuts and berries.  A deer kill would be like hitting lotto.

The thing is you have to manage calorie output vs calorie intake if you're in a survival situation.  If you're moving a great distance from Point A to Point B, then those small calorie meals are needed to sustain energy and keep your head in the game.  If you're hunkered down, then you can survive on much fewer calories.  Do we get the benefit of a known end date though?  My strategy is going to depend on the particular set of circumstances, prioritizing (in order) shelter, water, fire and food.  A firearm only helps to solve my lowest priority in the woods.

[moog5050]

59 minutes ago, Belo said:

what are you guys eating in the woods for 30 days besides squirrels? 

McDonalds - I hear that a big mac does not spoil even after years have passed.

[dbHunterNY]

5 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

McDonalds - I hear that a big mac does not spoil even after years have passed.

and enough calories to sustain you for days.  unless it gives you IBS which leads to dehydration. then your screwed.

[moog5050]

5 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

and enough calories to sustain you for days.  unless it gives you IBS which leads to dehydration. then your screwed.

Even better than MREs

[Fletch]

i read all 4 pages and I'm just pissed that in this stupid state I can't go out and buy the 30 round 22mag pistol. 

For survival situation without human, alien or walking dead attackers with a non specific end date. I'd be just fine with my 22 mag rifle and that 30 round pistol!!

For the other the same and a pair of 9's, an AK and a tactical shotgun a Katana, a dozen grenades, some claymores and a couple nice daggers.

[Chef]

For me, if SHTF, I would want either an AR chambered in .223 or an AK based rifle in 7.62x39. Either of those rounds are going to be pretty easy to find, no matter where you go, parts for either are pretty abundant, either one is capable of taking down most game or people, and they are easy to clean/maintain. If I could add a second firearm, it would be a 12 gauge pump, preferably a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870, for the same reasons as the rifles.

Why not the ar chambered in 5.56 gives your more ammo to scrounge if needed


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[WNYBuckHunter]

18 minutes ago, chefhunter86 said:

Why not the ar chambered in 5.56 gives your more ammo to scrounge if needed


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True

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, Jdubs said:

Squirrel, rabbit and fish with sides of nuts and berries.  A deer kill would be like hitting lotto.

The thing is you have to manage calorie output vs calorie intake if you're in a survival situation.  If you're moving a great distance from Point A to Point B, then those small calorie meals are needed to sustain energy and keep your head in the game.  If you're hunkered down, then you can survive on much fewer calories.  Do we get the benefit of a known end date though?  My strategy is going to depend on the particular set of circumstances, prioritizing (in order) shelter, water, fire and food.  A firearm only helps to solve my lowest priority in the woods.

we're assuming just a gun so fish are out. and your point about calories in is well put. rabbit hunting without a dog and a .22 instead of a scatter gun is a lot of work. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 hours ago, moog5050 said:

McDonalds - I hear that a big mac does not spoil even after years have passed.

and twinkies for dessert. They last decades. 

[steve863]

I think a .22 would suffice to hold up a McDonald's to get a Big Mac to eat.  I'm sure there will be at least a few of them open even when the SHTF. 

[Nomad]

On 1/2/2018 at 8:21 PM, Storm914 said:

Do you really think the criminals in  hood know  the difference between various 22lr ammo or are picky about what they use  .  The guy worrying about holes in his jacket are getting shot with subsonic ammo probably .:)

 

Mostly hardball 9,45 and 380 seemed popular , not much of an entry or exit wound ,often little blood . Now the sawed off 12ga placed  in a guys mouth and fired by another ,that guy bleed a lot,just not for long .

[Daveboone]

If I am home bound, 12 gauge pump slug gun (870 or Ithaca). It stops what it hits, variable ammo, bulky ammo not an issue in this environment. 

If I am moving, woods bound, .22 rimfire semiautomatic. I myself have a strong preference for Marlin model 60s over Rugers, despite their hoopla. they are bombproof, easy to maintain, 17 rds in the tube. Perfect for potting game,  you can carry more .22s than ANY other round, No, it may not stop a  crazed drugged up Mongol biker with one shot, but no one will choose to be shot by it, any knowledgeable and experienced shooter CAN put a determined foe down with a well placed shot.

[Rattler]

I like this little 10mm job.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/16/tnws-new-asr-rimfire-22-and-tactical-asp-10-mm/

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

I like this little 10mm job.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/16/tnws-new-asr-rimfire-22-and-tactical-asp-10-mm/

Nice