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Showing a DEC officer a gut pile?


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I hunt only 200yrds from the landowners border. It's well know the caretaker on neighbors land baits deer. His son is a state trooper. 

I've shot deer full of corn and sweet feed.  I do gut my deer where they lay. No way in hell would I take a dec officer to that gut pile. I could imagine the BS I'd have to go through to prove I was innocent. Even though I shouldn't have to.  

And yes, I've seen the bait. I have permission from the landowners to track wounded deer on to his property. The last time I seen the bait, it was probably 400 yrds from my stand. 

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LOL- yeah, get lost Mr. DEC officer. If you want incriminating evidence against me go find it for yourself! Mr. DEC officer hangs his head in shame and heads out to investigate another NY mountai

So all you master baiters out there, remember to brush your deer's teeth before taking it to the processor....

Are we now going to have to ask to see their itinerary for the last several days and where they were eating before we can shoot them? We could be playing right by the book and a couple neighbors over

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Looks like a bunch of Ag land up by Jordan Pond

East of Albany Post Road too

Looks like a bunch of possible ag around there. Then add food plots to the mix, you never know what’s growing somewhere in an entire county. 

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2 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 


Yea a few private land pieces may have a horse farm or something. But my point was that when DEC sees corn in teeth it raises red flags. If someone truly has a cornfield, they would gladly bring DEC to see the kill site.


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I’m sorry but corn in the teeth means jack nothing. You could have food plots less than a quarter of a mile away and never know it. All but one of my neighbors are clueless that I have food plots, and I only Know that those and my neighbors are the only ones around because I fly My drone all over a 1 mile radius from my house. I have some of the same bucks as my sister does on camera and they live a mile from me. Deer move long distances sometimes. 

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I think that if a DEC officer is suspicious of a improperly tagged deer they may ask someone to show them the gut pile.  Such as a tip from a person that a fellow is using his wife's buck tag on one of his deer........that could get a guy a visit from The Man and an invite to the wife to show the gut pile.  Heard that story told before but it could just be a "story" that just just gets passed around.

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I don’t understand the disdain for baiting. A lot of states allow bating and feeding of deer. What’s interesting is some of the states that allow it are the same states that produce big bucks. I wonder why?

I don’t understand why it’s perfectly acceptable to bait a coyote but not a deer. There are more deer/human interactions than coyote/human interactions. Besides, municipalities across NY will pay the USDA and whatever subcontractors they hire to bait, spot light and cull deer at night. I don’t see how baiting is a terrible thing. If you stay within your tag limits what is the problem? It’s not for everyone, but for the people just looking to put food on the table. Just food for thought. 

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Not sure how to take this thread. After readin the whole thing before logging in, I tried a web search for the DEC/ENCON can do pertaining to private land. I thought there was a NOTE that they could enter private with a 'probable Clause', but I can't find that anymore, so I would tell DEC to bugger off.

 

Now, I also want to make a comment about the baiting issues in NYS. A few years back, my wife and I were doing a little hiking in Thacher Park ( I have mentioned this several times now ), I was mainly doing some scouting for deer hunting, in one area I see what looks like a fire pit with some sort of crap tossed into it. I took a few pics, then realized, "Is this deer bait?" ( yes, I am that stupid because I had never seen it in the woods before). My mind shifts, must be a cam then, I turn a 180* and there's the cam!

We came home and I posted about the incident, and posted the pics in here. The very next day grampy and I went out to the area and I showed him where it was, trail cam was gone. I stopped into the old Ranger station at that time, and they literally laughed at me when I told them I found a bait pile. Nice right?

I found a couple more over that season and the following, never bothered saying a word, it's a local area run by locals, including, the Rangers. I just won't hunt there any more! Some good deer in there, but I'm not taking the wrap for some lowlifes who can't get it done legally. Plenty of public land around me, no need to put myself in a $hitty situation. They drop the bait, I shoot a deer in the area, something goes funky, and BAM, it's all on me! No thanks!

 

 

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Trust me they are not going to do any more than they have to. A few years ago I found a big dead buck that someone shot, cut the antlers off, and left it lay. They also left the hacksaw blades lying right next to the deer. I called the DEC to report it and a officer came out and took all the information. When I asked if  he wanted to see the deer or collect the hacksaw blades he replied no need. Before he left he asked if I would get them but to be careful handling them in case they could find prints. I went out and picked up the hacksaw blades with a pair of needle nose pliers and placed them in a zip lock bag. It took three telephone calls to get them to come out and pick up the blades.

 They picked up the blades, placed them in a paper bag, and thanked me for reporting it. I asked if they could at least let me know if they found anything out. To this day I don't know if they found anything or even tried.

 If they can catch you in the act or close to it they will react but I don't think to many are going to go out of their way to collect evidence unless they are sure they have a case.

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I’m sorry but corn in the teeth means jack nothing. You could have food plots less than a quarter of a mile away and never know it. All but one of my neighbors are clueless that I have food plots, and I only Know that those and my neighbors are the only ones around because I fly My drone all over a 1 mile radius from my house. I have some of the same bucks as my sister does on camera and they live a mile from me. Deer move long distances sometimes. 


I’m just telling you what I’ve heard happen at the butcher. Nearly every buck I took to the butcher I saw DEC there inspecting teeth. I’ve been told from numerous people that if they see something fishy in the mouth they have the hunter show them the kill site


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55 minutes ago, pitweiler said:

I don’t understand the disdain for baiting. A lot of states allow bating and feeding of deer. What’s interesting is some of the states that allow it are the same states that produce big bucks. I wonder why?

I don’t understand why it’s perfectly acceptable to bait a coyote but not a deer. There are more deer/human interactions than coyote/human interactions. Besides, municipalities across NY will pay the USDA and whatever subcontractors they hire to bait, spot light and cull deer at night. I don’t see how baiting is a terrible thing. If you stay within your tag limits what is the problem? It’s not for everyone, but for the people just looking to put food on the table. Just food for thought. 

Most of my own "disdain" is because it is illegal.  I am sure I will hear: "so is driving 1 mph over the speed-limit".      That maybe true, however the accepted standard is driving about 8 mph over the speed limit and keeping up with traffic is safer for all than slowing it down.   Keeping people safe trumps following the letter of the law in the case of driving.    It also seems stupid to me because I can grow corn cheaper than I can buy it.   Why waste the money on "bait" when I can legally plant a food plot. Finally, (sorry about this one FSW), there is the CWD (and other disease) issue.  Bait brings deer close together in an unnatural way, promoting the spread of disease.   Is it any wonder that the only CWD discovered in NY has been on deer farms? 

I don't know of anyone who baits.  If I did, I would not hesitate to call the DEC about it.  I also understand that most folks are too afraid to do that.  

 If any law-breaking, stupid, disease - spreading baiters read this, try thinking a little bit more about what you are doing and if the benefits really outweigh the costs ?

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26 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 


I’m just telling you what I’ve heard happen at the butcher. Nearly every buck I took to the butcher I saw DEC there inspecting teeth. I’ve been told from numerous people that if they see something fishy in the mouth they have the hunter show them the kill site


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I’ve heard this is one of the ways the deer were disqualified in the Sullivan county contest. 

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1 hour ago, pitweiler said:

I don’t understand the disdain for baiting. A lot of states allow bating and feeding of deer. What’s interesting is some of the states that allow it are the same states that produce big bucks. I wonder why?

I don’t understand why it’s perfectly acceptable to bait a coyote but not a deer. There are more deer/human interactions than coyote/human interactions. Besides, municipalities across NY will pay the USDA and whatever subcontractors they hire to bait, spot light and cull deer at night. I don’t see how baiting is a terrible thing. If you stay within your tag limits what is the problem? It’s not for everyone, but for the people just looking to put food on the table. Just food for thought. 

In my opinion baiting is not desirable bc it throws deer off their pattern and screws up the work surrounding hunters may put in. I had to deal with it firsthand for years with an adjacent landowner. A few days before the season opened the neighbors would show up and we immediately noticed fewer deer on our property. The first week was always slow, but we would see more deer as the season progressed and their camp emptied. Every deer we were able to take would have corn in their stomach. A few years ago their camp disbanded and we have since taken over hunting the property. We’ve had great success throughout the season and have found the deer hold their patterns better. Not a single deer since the neighbors left have had corn in their stomach. Maybe a coincidence, but I don’t think so. 

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7 hours ago, NYBowhunter said:

I shot a doe with the bow who had substaintial amount of fresh corn in her gut and mouth, there are cut corn fields around but not the direction she came from. How can they say im baiting if they find no pile, whos to say it wasnt my neighbor?

They work off tips .they are simple not going to investigate every deer, if its obviously been into mineral granular feed they may..

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6 hours ago, Al Bundy said:

Seriously? You want DEC walking your entire hunting area? poking, prodding, leaving scent, disrupting deer during hunting season? I sure don't. My better half missed a 6 pt last weekend in a giant corn field. No, corn in deer teeth don't raise suspicions in many parts of the state. I'm getting her a new rifle and scope btw.  

I invite them on for Fisher studies, found bear dens, turkey trapping and banding.. its come in useful when jealous neighbor was making up. Stories of bait and no tags..when he gave them my name they laughed and said your barking up wrong tree we are on his property all the time.  Look on his face was priceless they told me :)

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It still surprises me that so many still think they're above the law or enjoy "fighting the man." If you killed a deer, someone called the Dec on you for some Reason and they wanted to see where you shot it, who cares?? Take them and be done with it. It's very simple, they are there to enforce game laws so if you weren't doing anything stupid what do you have to hide?? A lot of people have a problem with baiting here judging by the above comments, well the Dec officer is trying to do his job and help with that and you're going to be an A Hole and hinder it? Maybe I'm biased because a really close friend of mine is a DEC officer and he's not out to screw anyone over unnecessarily. Respect is lost it seems these days. I'll probably get 3 responses now where someone had a rogue DEC officer being rude to them, well guess what it's probably because you were being a dick. In my experience, the people who want to fight you over a simple request are the ones hiding something. Same with an V&T stop, if an officer wants to poke through my truck quick, have at it, there aren't drugs or illegal weapons in there, I have nothing to hide.

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11 hours ago, pitweiler said:

I don’t understand the disdain for baiting. A lot of states allow bating and feeding of deer. What’s interesting is some of the states that allow it are the same states that produce big bucks. I wonder why?

I don’t understand why it’s perfectly acceptable to bait a coyote but not a deer. There are more deer/human interactions than coyote/human interactions. Besides, municipalities across NY will pay the USDA and whatever subcontractors they hire to bait, spot light and cull deer at night. I don’t see how baiting is a terrible thing. If you stay within your tag limits what is the problem? It’s not for everyone, but for the people just looking to put food on the table. Just food for thought. 

I have no issues with it as long as its legal. In NY its just not legal, so of course hunters here are going to have disdain for it.

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10 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Most of my own "disdain" is because it is illegal.  I am sure I will hear: "so is driving 1 mph over the speed-limit".      That maybe true, however the accepted standard is driving about 8 mph over the speed limit and keeping up with traffic is safer for all than slowing it down.   Keeping people safe trumps following the letter of the law in the case of driving.    It also seems stupid to me because I can grow corn cheaper than I can buy it.   Why waste the money on "bait" when I can legally plant a food plot. Finally, (sorry about this one FSW), there is the CWD (and other disease) issue.  Bait brings deer close together in an unnatural way, promoting the spread of disease.   Is it any wonder that the only CWD discovered in NY has been on deer farms? 

I don't know of anyone who baits.  If I did, I would not hesitate to call the DEC about it.  I also understand that most folks are too afraid to do that.  

 If any law-breaking, stupid, disease - spreading baiters read this, try thinking a little bit more about what you are doing and if the benefits really outweigh the costs ?

Actually, the CWD in NY was discovered in wild deer.

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Not that I don't believe you....but someone has to be growing corn in a backyard garden for the fun of it.

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Or a in food plot or 100. I know if i was in that area and there wasn't any corn fields within miles my number one food plot would be corn.

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So the gut pile behind my house from a deer harvested in another area can get me in trouble for baiting? Seems like a stretch of that's all the evidence they have and presumption of guilt won't bring charges. In case you all have forgotten "innocent until proven guilty". The proof needs to be rock solid not what is in the gut pile or stuck in its teeth.

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Cant cut and paste it for some reason but cuffs and collars has good article on this exact thing where a tip was given to dec about guy shooting 2 large buck, said he only shot one, ask where he hunted he told them, they went in and tracked other hunter to his stand where they found bait piles , 4 deer were shot over it, lots of tickets given. The point is it all starts with a tip.. from there if they have enough to think illegal activity is happening they can go on your property. It's not the same as entering your house as all game belongs to the state... 

Just a interesting point same posting says some one shot a red deer doe in franklinville weighed 175 lbs

 

 

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12 hours ago, Steve D said:

Trust me they are not going to do any more than they have to. A few years ago I found a big dead buck that someone shot, cut the antlers off, and left it lay. They also left the hacksaw blades lying right next to the deer. I called the DEC to report it and a officer came out and took all the information. When I asked if  he wanted to see the deer or collect the hacksaw blades he replied no need. Before he left he asked if I would get them but to be careful handling them in case they could find prints. I went out and picked up the hacksaw blades with a pair of needle nose pliers and placed them in a zip lock bag. It took three telephone calls to get them to come out and pick up the blades.

 They picked up the blades, placed them in a paper bag, and thanked me for reporting it. I asked if they could at least let me know if they found anything out. To this day I don't know if they found anything or even tried.

 If they can catch you in the act or close to it they will react but I don't think to many are going to go out of their way to collect evidence unless they are sure they have a case.

I don't think they would have much to go on in that situation. There's no law against cutting the rack or head off a deadhead. That deer could have been shot and unrecovered by someone and found by someone else who came back with the tools to get the job done. I do it all the time but usually after season has ended just so it doesn't look suspicious if someone were to see me hauling buck heads out of the woods on a daily basis during an season,lol. I've even gone so far as to bury a carcass or head under a pile of sticks and leaves so nobody finds it until I return.

I'm sure that would look suspicious as all hell if somebody did find it, but ain't no law against that.

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2 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I have no issues with it as long as its legal. In NY its just not legal, so of course hunters here are going to have disdain for it.

I'm sort of in this camp. Even if it was legal, I don't think I would do it with a feeder type system or corn piles. I just find humor in they roundabout way NY goes about deer feeding/baiting legality. Bait sites are illegal for you and me, but a planted food plot is completely legal, and feeding deer in Sullivan County is acceptable, but not acceptable in the rest of the state. With all that said, a municipality can hire USDA to cull their population and baiting/spotlighting is totally acceptable for that practice. I just find it completely hypocritical. If I was someone who was relying on killing a couple deer to feed my family I would throw some bait down without hesitation if I needed to. I think most of the displeasure stems from what someone said about one property baiting and pulling deer from adjacent property. No one is on the same page. Baiting happens in NY. The bait is sold in pretty much every sporting goods store and they always run low by the time hunting season starts. People ARE buying corn salt/mineral licks, etc. Maybe NYS should regulate it instead of banning it. In certain areas of the state where deer population is too high I would think baiting would be an acceptable form of hunting. Especially when hunting harvest numbers aren't great enough to control the population and culling has to take place by the USDA.

It's also interesting that baiting coyotes is legal but baiting bears is not. Baiting bears is not an uncommon way to hunt them. I don't see how bait left out for coyotes would not be eaten by bears since bears eat pretty much anything they can get their paws on. I just don't see a difference. 

I say regulate it and put some stipulations in place like a lot of states have. Maybe increasing their food sources in more rural areas will help draw deer out of suburban and urban areas. I'm not a biologist so I don't know the answer to that.

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On 12/5/2018 at 1:06 PM, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 


There’s no corn in the entire county!


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you really don't know that. i took one minute to google earth that shit and came up with multiple ag fields that were tilled dirt.

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18 hours ago, Bigfoot 327 said:

The DEC personnel that inspect teeth are usually biologist ageing the deer- They aren't the enforcement types.

Correct and students as well , this year they aged my buck at 3 1/2 , they punch the tag to show .

Myself nothing but great realtonships with DEC Poilce , one pulled in just after I loaded my buck in the truck last Sunday. Great guy, asked how we did ,I open cover on bed showed him buck, he looked briefly at tag, never asked my name or to see lic.

Later I saw I never wrote zone on tag, he said nothing about that . Once he learned that the guy with me was from the family that owns thousand of acres , it became talk of the area and things going on .

He commented that he’s seen my truck here a lot ( could be a ruse so guys think he’s always around ) I told him stop by anytime ,Park here if he wants .

The last guy ,before he got promoted ,we met up most years to talk about things. Love having their trucks on my spot ,locals notice fast .

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