Holiday deer hunt is a go ths dec

[DirtTime]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:17 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:

Late season muzzleloader in the ADK’s will destroy the deer herds. By December most deer are in their winter yards.


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They are yarded up way before that. They are yarded up in some areas by the early ML season. I highly doubt it will "destroy" the herds. The doe to buck ratio in most of the areas where the highest population hunt are highly out of whack. DMP's being allowed every few years would not hurt the deer population in the ADK's. 

[corydd7]

Couldn't agree more at least around my cabin. Wish I could take one doe each year. I see 10 doe for each buck on trail cams. Part of this is because I have food plots but I believe the immediate area surrounding, has about the same ratio. 

Even out the doe to buck ratio and you can provide more space and food for bucks.

Starting about december 1st I always have snow on the property and deer vanish. I always get the best buck of the year right after season ends but daily sightings of deer are extremely low after about four inches of snow.

Edited February 21, 2021 by corydd7

[Buckmaster7600]

They are yarded up way before that. They are yarded up in some areas by the early ML season. I highly doubt it will "destroy" the herds. The doe to buck ratio in most of the areas where the highest population hunt are highly out of whack. DMP's being allowed every few years would not hurt the deer population in the ADK's. 

ADK’s is a big place, but from someone that’s hunted up there my entire life I’ve never seen deer yard in Oct, I’ve never seen deer yard before thanksgiving actually. I’ve never seen a place in the ADK’s with a real out of wack doe to buck ratio. In most places the ADK’s has about as natural of a ratio as possible due to the minuscule amount of deer killed by hunters.


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[chrisw]

Awful lot of people worried about snowmobiling over a 5 day season that we likely won't have enough snow for anyhow? I don't really care about the extra days anyhow I guess, I'll take it but it's not that big of a deal to me. Give it a year and the novelty of it is gone and noone will hunt those days either. As far as the deer returning to normal after a 5 day Break? Not on the properties that I hunt! For those of you that can control pressure perhaps...

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[chrisw]

Late season muzzleloader in the ADK’s will destroy the deer herds. By December most deer are in their winter yards.


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There's a place near Lowville where we hunt occasionally and they created a separate no hunting zone for the yarding reason. There are so many deer packed in that area it's way too easy and people were dropping deer like crazy in there on years we got early snow.

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[DirtTime]

8 hours ago, corydd7 said:

Couldn't agree more at least around my cabin. Wish I could take one doe each year. I see 10 doe for each buck on trail cams. Part of this is because I have food plots but I believe the immediate area surrounding, has about the same ratio. 

Even out the doe to buck ratio and you can provide more space and food for bucks.

Starting about december 1st I always have snow on the property and deer vanish. I always get the best buck of the year right after season ends but daily sightings of deer are extremely low after about four inches of snow.

You can't explain that to some people. On average there are are 5-7 does birthed each Spring to 1 buck. When those numbers go unchecked you get way more does then bucks. That's anywhere. When you think about how most people really don't hunt the eastern ADK's much farther then lake George, the numbers are going to be a lot different the further north you go and the less pressure they get. Also the further north you go the less factual data there is on deer numbers because there's less people around to do the DEC's job for them and report activity. 

 

Once the deep snow hits the deer move where food is more accessible. There are a whole lot of areas up north that are more piney type woods, where there just isn't enough natural mast for the deer to stick around. It's like people, when the cupboards get low and the freezer empty, we go get more food.

 

But, it is what it is. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Couldn't agree more at least around my cabin. Wish I could take one doe each year. I see 10 doe for each buck on trail cams. Part of this is because I have food plots but I believe the immediate area surrounding, has about the same ratio. 
Even out the doe to buck ratio and you can provide more space and food for bucks.
Starting about december 1st I always have snow on the property and deer vanish. I always get the best buck of the year right after season ends but daily sightings of deer are extremely low after about four inches of snow.

I think you see more doe than bucks because you’re hunting an area that holds does. Big woods isn’t like hunting suburbia or agriculture. Does tend to congregate together and bucks tend to stay to themselves.

Trail cams are also a very inaccurate way to measure buck to doe ratios, the same 2 does can walk by a cam 5 times in a day and you think you have 10 does but it’s actually only 2, bucks are obviously a little more recognizable when they have antlers.


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[Buckmaster7600]

You can't explain that to some people. On average there are are 5-7 does birthed each Spring to 1 buck. When those numbers go unchecked you get way more does then bucks. That's anywhere. When you think about how most people really don't hunt the eastern ADK's much farther then lake George, the numbers are going to be a lot different the further north you go and the less pressure they get. Also the further north you go the less factual data there is on deer numbers because there's less people around to do the DEC's job for them and report activity. 
 
Once the deep snow hits the deer move where food is more accessible. There are a whole lot of areas up north that are more piney type woods, where there just isn't enough natural mast for the deer to stick around. It's like people, when the cupboards get low and the freezer empty, we go get more food.
 
But, it is what it is. 

This year I deer hunted the Adirondacks 54 days, put a little over 3,000 miles on my truck chasing snow from gloversville to massena and from Ticonderoga to old forge. I don’t hunt 1 spot I hunt where I can find snow so I get to see a lot of areas in a year and in my life. I don’t keep track of every deer sighting but I would say my average sighting is probably 2 does to 1 buck.

I don’t work for dec and I’m certainly not a biologist but my experience doesn’t back your theory.

Now, my home farm is just outside of the ADK’s south eastern tip right on the edge of Nz/sz line and our deer herd is so out of whack I can’t kill enough does. But I understand that my 300 acres is a minuscule piece of the NZ. I wouldn’t want them changing regs to help the herd at my house that will hurt most of the other 6 million acres.

[Larry]

Why is the Northern Zone even being talked about? The management plan does not have a Northern Zone holiday hunt. The hunt is for the southern zone. You need to read the plan.

Dirt just to let you know the birth rate of bucks to does is about 1/1.

[Robhuntandfish]

11 minutes ago, Larry said:

Why is the Northern Zone even being talked about? The management plan does not have a Northern Zone holiday hunt. The hunt is for the southern zone. You need to read the plan.

Dirt just to let you know the birth rate of bucks to does is about 1/1.

They all know that.  The discussion was about having a late muzzle season. We all know it's not part of the plan.  You need to read the rest of the posts.  It was just a discussion on why there isn't a late muzzle season in northern.  

[Northcountryman]

12 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

ADK’s is a big place, but from someone that’s hunted up there my entire life I’ve never seen deer yard in Oct, I’ve never seen deer yard before thanksgiving actually. I’ve never seen a place in the ADK’s with a real out of wack doe to buck ratio. In most places the ADK’s has about as natural of a ratio as possible due to the minuscule amount of deer killed by hunters.


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I thought that I read somewhwre that doe/buck ratios were closer to 1:1 , in many cases ,due to much less hunting pressure in many areas of ADK's--is that not so then?

[Dinsdale]

Birth rates are 1 to 1. But herd averages vary.

There's a terrific article a few years ago explaining how hunting pressure (and non hunting) effect ratio by ND A [formerly qdma]

Google buck doe ratios

[jperch]

13 minutes ago, Dinsdale said:

Birth rates are 1 to 1. But herd averages vary.

There's a terrific article a few years ago explaining how hunting pressure (and non hunting) effect ratio by ND A [formerly qdma]

Google buck doe ratios

Yup on birth rate ratios, just like humans.  I suspect even in areas with no human hunting pressure that the adult doe population outweighs the adult male population.  I have seen countless times a doe with fawns approach my stand and the doe becomes aware something is wrong.  Frequently the button buck is the last to leave or even approaches while his sister and mom scram.  Testosterone, I suspect.  Obviously if a buck survives a few years they undergo a major personality change but by then I think their relative numbers have been reduced.

[Buckmaster7600]

I thought that I read somewhwre that doe/buck ratios were closer to 1:1 , in many cases ,due to much less hunting pressure in many areas of ADK's--is that not so then?

They are 1:1-1:2, at least from my experience.


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[Five Seasons]

On 2/21/2021 at 6:07 AM, DirtTime said:

On average there are are 5-7 does birthed each Spring to 1 buck. 

lol. what? 

[Four Seasons]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

lol. what? 

I know behind fence it’s a common practice to keep the doe pens hungry from August up until after breeding. Mother Nature tricked.  She has a way of making sure less doe fawns are born into areas that can’t support the numbers. Hence the high fence getting more buck fawns. 

[Northcountryman]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:17 AM, Belo said:

lol. what? 

Where did you get that data? I think it’s pretty much 1:1 

[steve863]

Did anyone see this yet?  Got an email from the DEC yesterday.  Looks like the holiday deer hunt might be a NO go in some counties if this proposal is adopted.  Seems like quite a few proposals have been adopted of late so this may be next.  Looks like the snowmobilers put in their .02 cents on this issue.

[mowin]

I'd see this. I really don't see many counties opting out of it. There's usually little to no snow in most areas at this time. 

I hope my county(Columbia) adopts the season, but there a lot of antis in this county and I'm sure they will do everything they can to stop it, but realistically, if it's bitter cold and I've already have a couple deer down, I probably wouldn't hunt. 

[steve863]

31 minutes ago, mowin said:

I'd see this. I really don't see many counties opting out of it. There's usually little to no snow in most areas at this time. 

I hope my county(Columbia) adopts the season, but there a lot of antis in this county and I'm sure they will do everything they can to stop it, but realistically, if it's bitter cold and I've already have a couple deer down, I probably wouldn't hunt. 

 

I don't think there will be many counties opting out either, but I am not too familiar with snowmobiling or have any clue how popular it might be in any particular county.  What I do find interesting is that the DEC let counties opt in or out on the youth hunt for 12 and 13 year olds and now may do the same with the holiday hunt.  I think this can potentially open up a whole can of worms if we allow counties to decide game laws and seasons for themselves.  I don't think it would be a good thing by any stretch of the imagination and lead to less hunting opportunities especially nearer the bigger cities and populated suburban areas.  Letting urban minded folks make decisions on hunting probably won't end well.

 

 

 

 

 

[Robhuntandfish]

The only day I will prob partake in this extension is Jan 1st. Just because I can hunt on Jan 1st and start the new year! 

[Moho81]

This would totally bum me out with my county opted out of it.


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[mowin]

3 hours ago, steve863 said:

 

I don't think there will be many counties opting out either, but I am not too familiar with snowmobiling or have any clue how popular it might be in any particular county.  What I do find interesting is that the DEC let counties opt in or out on the youth hunt for 12 and 13 year olds and now may do the same with the holiday hunt.  I think this can potentially open up a whole can of worms if we allow counties to decide game laws and seasons for themselves.  I don't think it would be a good thing by any stretch of the imagination and lead to less hunting opportunities especially nearer the bigger cities and populated suburban areas.  Letting urban minded folks make decisions on hunting probably won't end well.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree 100% with you on letting county officials dictate whether a hunting season is held or not. Should be DECs decision. 

[mlammerhirt]

I think these snowmobile clubs need to be really careful. Let's say there is a Land owner who is super excited for the holiday hunt......now the county opts out of it and said land owner is ticked so he pulls the trails from his properties and convinces all his neighbors to do so as well. No trail access = no need for a club.

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[mowin]

8 minutes ago, mlammerhirt said:

I think these snowmobile clubs need to be really careful. Let's say there is a Land owner who is super excited for the holiday hunt......now the county opts out of it and said land owner is ticked so he pulls the trails from his properties and convinces all his neighbors to do so as well. No trail access = no need for a club.

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While a stretch... It's definitely a possibility. Never thought about that scenario.