King andy declares gun state of emergency.

[Bigfoot 327]

He is giving people the right to sue gun manufacturers. This will affect all gun owners eventually. Since NY recently took your ability to manufacture your own guns (it's now a felony to manufacture or possess a "ghost" gun in NY), how in hell are you going to legally get a firearm?

[Nomad]

2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Ok I don’t like Cuomo at all nor do I like more restrictive gun laws.   But unless I missed it, this is aimed at illegal guns used in violent crimes.   I can’t say I am opposed to efforts to curb that.  We literally have a shooting or more a day here in Rochester.  Something needs to be done.  

Just listen to the Capt of major Crimes . Every city I cop I know which is more then a few ,feel the same way , they’re demoralized, hesitant to to be pro active . We’ve demoralized the cops and emboldened the shit birds ,the result is carnage .

Bail reform , legal pot , they used to get a lot of illegal guns of traffic stops where they smelled pot , not anymore . RPD is way short staffed and nobody wants the job anymore . There’s 50 out on suspension, most have been cleared of all charges ,but the mayor won’t let them come back .

No cop will risk their pension as they no there’s no backing from the city  , so this is what we get . Currently it’s a drug gang  war , using infantry tactics, that sometimes takes out innocent bystanders ,like the two at the East End .

I always was comfortable on any street at any time ,on or off duty, today I just won’t go in the city anywhere ,Park Ave, nowhere and I’ve upped my carry . 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Nomad

[UpStateRedNeck]

I don't think @moog5050 is debating that 

A) Andy is a gigantic crystalized turd stuck in all our collective butts

B ) More gun control on law abiding citizens = Bad

C) Criminals are out of control

I think he was genuinely curious as to what in Gov. Scrotal Lesion's latest shenanigans was bad.  

Do we have to jump down somebodies throat?  Especially when they open with "Not a fan of Cuomo either but....".  Pretty sure we're all in the same corner here. 

[moog5050]

2 hours ago, UpStateRedNeck said:

I don't think @moog5050 is debating that 

A) Andy is a gigantic crystalized turd stuck in all our collective butts

B ) More gun control on law abiding citizens = Bad

C) Criminals are out of control

I think he was genuinely curious as to what in Gov. Scrotal Lesion's latest shenanigans was bad.  

Do we have to jump down somebodies throat?  Especially when they open with "Not a fan of Cuomo either but....".  Pretty sure we're all in the same corner here. 

Lol.  Some folks go off on tangents.  I was literally focusing on the specific executive order - which has nothing to do with proposed legislation Re gun manufacturers.   It is aimed at preventative programs and stopping the sale of illegal firearms.  I can support those concepts even if I don’t like Cuomo and I don’t.  But hard to keep the discussion focused.   
 

I am familiar with the problems faced in lower income areas.  I attend church in these areas and many of my close friends reside in these areas.  So I am all for anything that might make these areas safer.  

[phantom]

The left says  anytime cops crack down on crime its racist so what can be done if they don't want cops enforcing the laws  maybe a all  binary trans   police force ? Like what they are doing to the army is the answer.

 

[Gobbler Chaser]

5 hours ago, moog5050 said:

You will have to show me that as I saw nothing from the article other than preventive programs for kids and task force to address illegal ie unregistered guns used by criminals.  I know we all hate restrictive gun laws and cuomo but I also don’t jump to conclusions simply because he wants to address gun violence.   It is out of hand right now.  

You might as well have your conversation with the south end of a northbound mule

[Lucky118]

Why are we not just giving them more guns and ammo? They don't  want jail or cops shooting them,  so lets just give them a ton of ammo and guns and let them kill each other. Soon there won't  be any of them left. Win win.

[rob-c]

7 hours ago, Nomad said:

Just listen to the Capt of major Crimes . Every city I cop I know which is more then a few ,feel the same way , they’re demoralized, hesitant to to be pro active . We’ve demoralized the cops and emboldened the shit birds ,the result is carnage .

Bail reform , legal pot , they used to get a lot of illegal guns of traffic stops where they smelled pot , not anymore . RPD is way short staffed and nobody wants the job anymore . There’s 50 out on suspension, most have been cleared of all charges ,but the mayor won’t let them come back .

No cop will risk their pension as they no there’s no backing from the city  , so this is what we get . Currently it’s a drug gang  war , using infantry tactics, that sometimes takes out innocent bystanders ,like the two at the East End .

I always was comfortable on any street at any time ,on or off duty, today I just won’t go in the city anywhere ,Park Ave, nowhere and I’ve upped my carry . 

 

I know a senior police investigator. He has echoed every thing you’ve said, he’s counting the days till retirement and knows many others that are riding out their short time till they can retire and are not doing anything to jeopardize that retirement . Others are saying the hell with it and are taking early retirement and others are putting  in applications in red states to move on.

Edited July 7, 2021 by rob-c

[Robhuntandfish]

4 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Lol.  Some folks go off on tangents.  I was literally focusing on the specific executive order - which has nothing to do with proposed legislation Re gun manufacturers.   It is aimed at preventative programs and stopping the sale of illegal firearms.  I can support those concepts even if I don’t like Cuomo and I don’t.  But hard to keep the discussion focused.   
 

I am familiar with the problems faced in lower income areas.  I attend church in these areas and many of my close friends reside in these areas.  So I am all for anything that might make these areas safer.  

Syracuse is now doing a gun buyback this weekend . 

I agree that the exec order (leaving aside making it easier to sue gun manufacturers which I don't agree with) isn't a threat to legal gun owners and I guess doesn't hurt. But to me it's like saying we are going to try to stop theft but we have already passed a law that no one can lock their doors.  There is just no solution in any of this exec order that is going to mean anything on the streets.  The most restrictive gun laws in the US in NYC yet they had 26 shootings this weekend.  The core root of the problem needs to be addressed and it's more police, more jails, enforcing laws and getting rid of bail reform.  Anything else is just pissing into a windstorm. And it's a windstorm that Andy helped create.  When he also told every police Dept to redo their policing plan in line with less force and it has to be done and submitted for his approval.  

Ithaca redid theirs with this progressive ideaology and the police chief resigned. It wasn't a coincidence and the chief said it was just time for him to retire and he said the PC things on the way out , as Nomad said to keep his pension for a life of hard work.  

Not trying to pile on as I am the guy that's took the stance where I can see how people just want something done. But I can't applaud this move as I just don't see it having an impact or getting to the root cause.

Criminals are mostly that and the more they are off the street the better, before they get to shootings. 

Gulianni cleaned up NYC and some people didn't like his methods but it did work. And now it is sliding into the same issues again. Except this time it's statewide due to Andy.

Get rid of bail reform, get rid of making police depts be progressive, hire more of them and if needed expand the prison system.  Not looking for a police state but only the ability to enforce the laws as they were intended. 

[knehrke]

If we go the liberal route, we end up with armed gangs waging war in the streets.

If we go the conservative route, we end up with police and gangs waging war in the streets.

Nothing we do seems to be effective, which IMHO means we are trying to use easy answers to solve a complex problem. The root cause is social issues that transcend guns, police, and even politics. As the gap between the haves and the have-nots becomes wider, cracks emerge in the system. It's been that way since the beginning of time. Guns allow an exaggerated response. 

I think I'm part of the mostly silent majority that doesn't see a feasible route out of this mess. And it sucks waking up wondering how much worse it's going to get.

That having been said, most of the time I think we can slow down the freefall spin by communicating more effectively, without rancor or denigration.  Other times I think that being reasonable just provide an opportunity for the "other side" to get in another blow. I haven't had enough coffee yet to game this one out...

[phantom]

22 minutes ago, knehrke said:

If we go the liberal route, we end up with armed gangs waging war in the streets.

If we go the conservative route, we end up with police and gangs waging war in the streets.

Nothing we do seems to be effective, which IMHO means we are trying to use easy answers to solve a complex problem. The root cause is social issues that transcend guns, police, and even politics. As the gap between the haves and the have-nots becomes wider, cracks emerge in the system. It's been that way since the beginning of time. Guns allow an exaggerated response. 

I think I'm part of the mostly silent majority that doesn't see a feasible route out of this mess. And it sucks waking up wondering how much worse it's going to get.

That having been said, most of the time I think we can slow down the freefall spin by communicating more effectively, without rancor or denigration.  Other times I think that being reasonable just provide an opportunity for the "other side" to get in another blow. I haven't had enough coffee yet to game this one out...

Even the  poorest Americans in inner cities   live better then  95%  of the worlds population yet they have higher rate of crime in those innercities  then any place in the world .

The only answer  is to let cops do there jobs and flood those areas with more of them  .

That is all you can do .

Doing Only the lefts crazy ideas don't work they just don't.  They  do things that  make the rich libs feel good about themselves  because its  all about them  first its not about the poor people living in those war zones . liberals do things that feel good over what works they are scared to offend anyone just because 1% don't want to follow laws  does not mean you should let them decide what you do with crime in those areas  .  

 

[Nomad]

9 hours ago, UpStateRedNeck said:

I think he was genuinely curious as to what in Gov. Scrotal Lesion's latest shenanigans was bad. 

Here ya go , trying an end around the Protection of Lawful commerce Act .

https://www.whec.com/national/new-york-ag-could-try-to-sue-gun-manufacturers-under-new-law/6163435/?cat=565

Andy , here’s bail reform . So if one gets caught with an illegal gun ,they just get an appearance ticket and stay on the street . When they don’t  appear for court, there’s not enough cops to look for them  ,as they’re both short staffed along with the shear number who just don’t show . If they happen to be found they get another ticket, which they don’t  show up for either, they just remain on  the street committing more crimes . 

Also Andy, “ we need to try do something about all this crime ! “

 

 

[UpStateRedNeck]

32 minutes ago, phantom said:

Even the  poorest Americans in inner cities   live better then  95%  of the worlds population yet they have higher rate of crime in those innercities  then any place in the world .

The only answer  is to let cops do there jobs and flood those areas with more of them  .

That is all you can do .

Doing Only the lefts crazy ideas don't work they just don't.  They  do things that  make the rich libs feel good about themselves  because its  all about them  first its not about the poor people living in those war zones . liberals do things that feel good over what works they are scared to offend anyone just because 1% don't want to follow laws  does not mean you should let them decide what you do with crime in those areas  .  

 

I know I'm just letting it fly into the wind here, but :

That's like your parents telling you when you were a kid that there's starving kids in Uganda right now.  Is it true?  Yup!  Are you still ticked off because you have to eat your greens?  Yup!  
Unfortunately due to social media (used to be MTV in my day), it's worse than ever these days.  Kids born into shitty lives in shitty homes in WHATEVER part of the country, trailer parks, public housing etc, all they see is social media telling them that everybody is living better than them.  And that it's super cool to deal drugs and gang bang.  It doesn't matter what reality is, and the reality is that there IS opportunity for even the poorest of folks, it's what they're being told by Jay-Z or Lil' Pump or whoever.  You're not doing it right if you're not living that lifestyle.

I agree the police should be allowed to do their job, but I also think there needs to be a cultural change on both sides of the fence.  

 

[UpStateRedNeck]

8 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Here ya go , trying an end around the Protection of Lawful commerce Act .

https://www.whec.com/national/new-york-ag-could-try-to-sue-gun-manufacturers-under-new-law/6163435/?cat=565

Andy , here’s bail reform . So if one gets caught with an illegal gun ,they just get an appearance ticket and stay on the street . When they don’t  appear for court, there’s not enough cops to look for them  ,as they’re both short staffed along with the shear number who just don’t show . If they happen to be found they get another ticket, which they don’t  show up for either, they just remain on  the street committing more crimes . 

Also Andy, “ we need to try do something about all this crime ! “

 

 

Seems like Andy's usual nonsense, something that looks good on the surface, but probably won't hold up in court. Eventually we're going to have to have a residence in another state in order to buy anymore firearms for use in this state, because no manufacturer is going to sell here anymore.

 

 

[Shoots100]

8 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Lol.  Some folks go off on tangents.  I was literally focusing on the specific executive order - which has nothing to do with proposed legislation Re gun manufacturers.   It is aimed at preventative programs and stopping the sale of illegal firearms.  I can support those concepts even if I don’t like Cuomo and I don’t.  But hard to keep the discussion focused.   
 

I am familiar with the problems faced in lower income areas.  I attend church in these areas and many of my close friends reside in these areas.  So I am all for anything that might make these areas safer.  

Again, Why is there a need for executive action ?

Gun violence didn't exist at this level before Cuomo and the powers that be in those towns defunded the police and enacted laws to benefit the criminals.

If we stopped arresting and jailing drunk drivers, made Alcohol available to everyone and then announced that we wouldn't be enforcing drunk driving crimes, In a year, Do you think we would need to enact Emergency legislation to combat the excessive amount of people being killed by drunk drivers ? 

Of course we would and the serfs living in those distressed crime ridden areas are being used as pawns in Andy's grab for more control of the masses, for a problem he caused.

He kills and puts his serfs in danger, then shows up on a white horse with sword in hand(State Police) to protect them.

How many times does this clown get away with this act ?

Good Grief Charlie Brown !

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Shoots100

[moog5050]

46 minutes ago, Shoots100 said:

Again, Why is there a need for executive action ?

Gun violence didn't exist at this level before Cuomo and the powers that be in those towns defunded the police and enacted laws to benefit the criminals.

If we stopped arresting and jailing drunk drivers, made Alcohol available to everyone and then announced that we wouldn't be enforcing drunk driving crimes, In a year, Do you think we would need to enact Emergency legislation to combat the excessive amount of people being killed by drunk drivers ? 

Of course we would and the serfs living in those distressed crime ridden areas are being used as pawns in Andy's grab for more control of the masses, for a problem he caused.

He kills and puts his serfs in danger, then shows up on a white horse with sword in hand(State Police) to protect them.

How many times does this clown get away with this act ?

Good Grief Charlie Brown !

 

 

I don't know whether the programs initiated through the executive order will have any impact or not.  But 51 people were shot this weekend in NY and 8 of them in Rochester.  Clearly something needs to be done and what we have in place isn't working to stop the violence.  Blame who you want, but in the end, there needs to be change.   Even if Cuomo is completely at fault, I would be happy to see something new work - be it some program from this executive order or otherwise.   But just shouting "enforce the current laws" is not enough.  The proof is in the shootings.  And the point of my original post was that I didn't see anything in the executive order that impacted law abiding gun owners.

[moog5050]

And by the way, some of the victims of these shootings are innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time.   Its not all criminal on criminal violence.  The son of one of our church members was shot in a drive by two weeks ago and he was not engaged in any criminal activity.  Just lives in the gang infested hood.  Thankfully he will live.

[Nomad]

Moog is correct . Two women were shot on East Ave, the East End bar district where my kids used to go , just caught up in the crossfire . There’s no respect for any life , they don’t care if the guy they want is in a crowd of innocents . You want to fix that? Restore the nuclear family, that stresses education , work, kindness and the church . Until then keep the 10% who commit 90% of the crime in the crowbar hotel .
 

What’s concerning with Andy’s new plan ,is it’s declared an “ disaster emergency .” So now he can rule by executive action ,instead of through legislation . Holy safe act II . 
 

 

[ApexerER]

We need to make it crystal clear that we have the back of the police and want them to enforce the laws and do their jobs without fear of losing their job or being sued.

That will go a long way in restoring some control. 

We need to ditch bail reform. It should have been obvious to anyone that this was a terrible idea. 

We need some leaders to step up and make it clear that if you don't commit any crimes, you never have to worry about dealing with the police. If you do have to deal with the police. You comply, period. End of story...and you won't have an issue with the police. I would love to hear just one leader say that.....Had George Floyd complied, he would still be alive. Along with every other person that has perished at the hands of the police. 

When did it become the norm to not comply with a LEO? 

These leaders saying their children can't go outside for fear of being killed by a police officer need to be called out!

 

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Nomad said:

There’s no respect for any life , they don’t care if the guy they want is in a crowd of innocents . You want to fix that? Restore the nuclear family, that stresses education , work, kindness and the church .
 

 

I agree 100% but that's no easy fix.   It starts at home and I know of many families that raise their kids right and live in the hood but the outside pressures are immense.  I don't think most folks that didn't grow up in these neighborhoods understand the magnitude of the challenges faced by youth and adults there.   I admit my ignorance to these challenges until I really become more educated about the issues by speaking with the folks/friends who live in these communities.

[phantom]

Here is conspiracy theory for you maybe  the defense attorneys lobbied to make  things bad like this just to create work for themselves . I'm joking but maybe its partly true i wonder. I think most vote far left  or donate money to them . 

[ApexerER]

1 minute ago, moog5050 said:

I agree 100% but that's no easy fix.   It starts at home and I know of many families that raise their kids right and live in the hood but the outside pressures are immense.  I don't think most folks that didn't grow up in these neighborhoods understand the magnitude of the challenges faced by youth and adults there.   I admit my ignorance to these challenges until I really become more educated about the issues by speaking with the folks/friends who live in these communities.

Can't disagree with any of this, but defunding the police, making the police out to be the bad guys in the hood and bail reform didn't do anything at all to help this and made it way worse. So the first thing we can do is reverse these things. I'm not saying it would all go away overnight, just reversing these things. But it would be a very easy first step

[moog5050]

19 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Can't disagree with any of this, but defunding the police, making the police out to be the bad guys in the hood and bail reform didn't do anything at all to help this and made it way worse. So the first thing we can do is reverse these things. I'm not saying it would all go away overnight, just reversing these things. But it would be a very easy first step

I agree.  We need to support law enforcement so they can do their job.   A few bad apples can cause a negative image of many whether it be police or those who reside in the hood.   

[Rack Attack]

The first exec. order king Andy needs to do is repeal his own bail reform BS, that's a good start to fixing the problem.  Yes jails will fill up initially, but once criminals realize that there are consequences again things will ease on that front.

[BizCT]

2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

And by the way, some of the victims of these shootings are innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time.   Its not all criminal on criminal violence.  The son of one of our church members was shot in a drive by two weeks ago and he was not engaged in any criminal activity.  Just lives in the gang infested hood.  Thankfully he will live.

and the young in chicago riding the train home from his summer internship. some of these cities are brutal. I think they said 100 were shot july 4th weekend in chicago