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I am against ar's they do not do anything more than stoke someone's ego thinking they are going to kill a big one, thing is the decrease in population allows yearling bucks to get more nutrition and therefor bigger antlers so your restriction of antler points to make them older is negated. how many here can say every buck they shot is 8pt or bigger? Everyone starts small and work their way to bigger more mature game as a personal choice. Who are we to tell someone oh sorry can't shoot that when we have a basket full of small bucks in the attic in the garage. Forget antlers and let hunting be what iit's suppose to be, a time to band with older and younger members of family and friends,a harvest of delicious meat, and a fun wholesome experiance away from today's electronic busy world outside in the beauty that is missed in our urban enviroments.

I'm not exactly sure how they arrived at those numbers. When I filled out my 2014 buck tags, the only descriptive information I had to check off (report) about my bucks was # of points on right and left antlers. How in the world they can put a deer in an age bracket based on that information alone is beyond me. I'm guessing these calculations may be a weeee bit inaccurate..., or at least tweaked a bit for shock purposes.

The deer were on their feet this morning... I had this 4 year old that I call "Wannabe" stop by just prior to sun up. His tines are still bulby on the tips and it appears that he is trying to add small G4's... A short time later the rest of the boys showed up. I've been hoping to get pics of several of these bucks since first spotting them out in this field a month ago...

This is an excerpt from a recent article on the Outdoor Wire. "Now, an entirely new petition is circulating on change.org - and it's designed to put pressure on U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe. If you're wondering if there's a goal to the petition, the title tells the story: "Justice for Cecil the iconic collared lion slaughtered by a trophy hunter in Zimbabwe!" Yes, that's an exclamation point at the end. No, we don't support the use of them, but we do support accurate quotations, so there it is. This petition, begun by Cheryl Semcer of Hoboken, New Jersey on July 31 -just four days ago, has already collected more than one million of the 1.5 million signatures that are the stated goal. Semcer's not an unfamiliar name to New York or New Jersey residents - especially if they're hunters. She's been called the "the Lion Lady of Hoboken, NJ" and website "EyeHelpAnimals.com" trumpets that she is "at it again" with the Cecil petition. According to that site, Semcer began a petition in 2012 that "resulted in the end of the sale and preparation of lion meat at a restaurant in Wichita, Kansas." There's no doubting Semcer's sincerity, although she might be a bit lacking on the facts of what hunting means to the economies of many African nations. But her love of animals resulted in her traveling to Zimbabwe and South Africa in 2009 where she "volunteered with lions, elephants and at a shelter with abused cats and dogs." In other words, she's not afraid to take a stand. And she has some clearly stated goals -and the active support of more than a million people who are outraged at the killing of a lion half-way around the world. Personally, I think it's unfortunate that the daily killing of human beings - globally- doesn't stir people's souls, but that's probably just my "desperate clinging nature". But I'm not afraid to make this prediction: if hunters- internationally- don't act quickly and with equal passion in support of legal hunting, this vocal minority (a million people signing an electronic petition still represents a small minority of the overall population), those same millions of hunters will have taken a big step toward the elimination of all hunting. As it is, international trophy hunters may soon find themselves, as the old expression says, all dressed up with no place to go." --Jim Shepherd

Some good deer out that way..But if you can't stay on the land by even a tent not good deal for anyone but locals...IMO

Oh yes, the good old outside the ears rule. Maybe a nice loud shout will get them to look straight at you while you check out if the antlers have the proper relation to the ears. That's always something I try to do before I shoot. It's always a bit more sporting to give them a heads-up that you are there. All these fad-rules simply make it more likely that hunters will just begin assuming that because the antlers look so big from the side that they have to meet whatever arbitrary criteria the rules demand. So what if there are a few more deer rotting in the woods because somebody made a bad gamble.

Management practices arent really the driving force behind ARs, not in my opinion. I think its the TV big rack culture that sells the idea that anyone with 50 acres can realistically shoot a 130+, or should be able to. People buy into that nonsense and then feel like they should shove that desire down everyones throat because they dont think there are enough of those deer around. For alot of areas, its simply not true. People dont realize that their property might just not be one that will hold older bucks, and alot of the time there is nothing they can do about it. ARs or not. Other times, they dont have the know how, willingness to do what it takes or access to get the big bucks that are around their area. I hear people all the time saying "NY can be the next Iowa", but it cant, and ARs wont make it that way. ARs will not affect the way I hunt, but I dont want to see them affect the way anyone else hunts either. Id rather spread the message for what voluntary ARs or management practices can do.

today 8/3/15 I took my grand son snapper fishing for the first time first I had to find a bait shop in Islip not easy went to one on mountauck hwy had a sign out front WE SELL BAIT stopped there closed took a ride to another place yep closed so I finely took a ride it west islip salt water anglers and bought my bait all ways go go there worth the ride back to Islip and fishing he so much enjoyed it. He caught four snappers all of them about 6 inches or shorted he fishing for about 30 maybe 40 minuets then to B K for his lunch [kids meal] best fishing trip I had in a long time cant wait to take him back out again

Anyone who thinks they're able to manage or manipulate the deer herd in this state from a desk in Albany is delusional. So yeah, that's exactly what they'll try to do. It's how bureaucrats think. The whole 'trophy' deer argument is not about the numbers of 'trophy' deer that can be grown. Those deer are out there, and they're watching your every move. This is about the accessibility of those 'trophies' for the people who are unwilling to work hard to get them. 'Trophy' hunting is supposed to be hard work. That's why it's called a trophy.

Well I'm going to state this publicly and the DEC and all of your opinions on it be damned! If they put this into effect with a spread minimum and I have a specific buck pass within a good shot range ...he's going down and screw the law period. Now I say this for more than a few "crap your pants" bucks having crossed my property... that did not pass such rules...one was the 12" inch brow tine buck who's G-2's were over 12", high tight rack...Another the hog that stepped out in front of me as I was getting out of my car. Massive body and too many twisted gnarly points to count...in fact I described it and Jesus's thorny crown. There was no "spread" on that buck. We have many high tight racks . Like the neighbors buck and The bigger 12 point I missed a couple of years ago whose rack had more mass but was the same type of tight high configuration. I'm actually getting tired of BS..I have been a stickler on the laws always and I know them pretty well ,unlike a lot of hunters...But I'm getting older and hey admittedly slowing down and I will be double dipped shite if I have such a buck get a pass when it is clearly a mature buck....Yes I say this with no intentions of ever getting a deer head mounted and with having gotten some nice mature bucks, but not being a Trophy hunter. There that's my stand on it.

The death of the "deer camps" and the older traditions paved the way for this isolated, myopic approach to hunting. IMO

A ML is super sonic. A cross bow isn't and given the noise difference between the crossbow and a compound I think most people have this issue with your account of your hunt. It was very fortunate that the deer stayed put for you. a small movement of 6" could have cost you that deer in the time of release and bolt flight.

Same two deer last year / this year:

Nice two year old that appears to have jammed a stick or something into his right mainbeam... Back in January... I'm not sure who this tall tined 8-pt is. He looks to be a really nice two year old or possibly a three year old (I leaning towards three)...

This buck was a awesome 2 year old six point last year. He showed back up post season around x-mas but had apparently been shot and already shed his antlers... I wasn't certain that he had survived the brutal winter until I spotted him one time in early summer. Well, he's alive and well and not looking too bad. You can see the scar above his shoulder...

Antler spread IS the best way to tell a mature buck in the field by his antlers alone... whether or not most hunters are able to do that is another thing entirely... AR's can only protect small bucks if the restriction is adequate to do so... three on a side is not adequate... It would be far more productive to educate hunters on what a big mature buck actually looks like before trying any program to protect young bucks... even more so the DEC needs to accurately, and effectively explain why it is necessary to protect younger bucks... without doing those things AR's are worthless and ineffective as a real conservation tool. I find that the trend of many hunters being selective by choice is working much better than any mandate implemented so far.

If we had too many does, the gun season would (or should) have been utilized. This is bad decision making and bad biology.

even worse, for the buck hunters anyway, is you will have guys stomping around the first two weeks sending the buck that they have been watching all summer into alert mode......kinda screws up the early season ambush.

That fine 1 buck rule but then drop bow and muzzleloader stamps to 1$ as I pay the same for a buck tag like everyone else.

I knew that but I was just taking a poke at the way they come to these numbers. Wouldn't it be great (seeing that these percentages don't really mean all that much) if there was a box on the carcass tag the hunter could fill in with his own age estimation! NY would become the mecca of 3+ year old spikers, forkies, and basket sixers,lol It wouldn't hurt nothing since we don't know any different anyhow.... Maybe then all this AR talk would go away finally.

Belo, I love the cherry picking of my post...so I'll post it yet again...just so everyone can see where that statement stemmed from...and I'll also restate "DEC and all your opinions be damned. BTW. to answer your question: Yes I did and even with my statement would..you need to put up a better example. The sunset / sun rise is about safety...My statement is about pure BS in a so called management policy. One that as far as inside spread goes has no baring on a bucks age.

Tall Antlers, tight spread:

Police and the courts do indeed need to take reckless driving more seriously, perhaps as seriously as they do drunk driving. Here is the law they should be enforcing: S 1212. Reckless driving. Reckless driving shall mean driving or using any motor vehicle, motorcycle or any other vehicle propelled by any power other than muscular power or any appliance or accessory thereof in a manner which unreasonably interferes with the free and proper use of the public highway, or unreasonably endangers users of the public highway. Reckless driving is prohibited. Every person violating this provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. > Actually, there is a bill pending to put more teeth in this law: http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S3724-2015 > I see it is an "Unclassified Misdemeanor" > Sounds serious per some lawyers: > Reckless driving is a misdemeanor in New York State. A conviction means a criminal record. Police officers have wide latitude in determining the definition of reckless. Judges also have discretion to impose severe penalties, even for a first offense. As a result, drivers may commit a minor infraction and still find themselves facing serious penalties, including fines, five points on their driver's license, suspension, revocation and even jail time. Collateral effects can include increased insurance premiums and a criminal record. > Make no mistake about it: reckless driving is an extremely serious offense in New York. It carries with it severe penalties, and a conviction could indefinitely stain your driving record. Reckless driving (VTL 1212) is considered to be one of the most intense tickets you can receive. It is commonly charged as a catch-all vehicular offense. Usually, drivers charged with this offense are facing allegations of running lights, speeding, improper lane changes, and other more minor traffic infractions. Reckless driving is an unclassified misdemeanor which means that it, unlike a minor traffic violation, it can lead to a permanent criminal record. Also, depending on how reckless you were, you could go to jail for up to 30 days for a first offense, 90 days for a second offense, and 180 days for a third offense. This could make background checks in an already down economy yet another barrier to finding or keeping a job. Aside from the criminal penalties, a reckless driving conviction will put 5 points on your driver’s license and you will incur a fine of up to $300. Reckless driving will cause your auto insurance rate to go up tremendously. A recent study conducted by Insurance.com revealed that the average insurance hike amounted to an increase of 22% for a reckless driving ticket!

i think the death of deer camps has more to do with society and culture. I see lots more camps for sale up in the Adirondacks even within the last few years. The economy doesn't support the second home. People require more time on the job and have less vacation, or they need a camp with amenities. I feel the days of ditching the family for a few weekends a year aren't a reality anymore. We get sh!t from our wife's that seem to get more attention than the husband/father of the 70's and 80's got. just my .02.

I didnt say that I thought they were close. I couldnt even tell you the last time I took a deer to a processor. I only know of one or two guys that do use processors anymore. $75 to cut up a deer is a joke.

I hope you dont think they get even remotely close to right numbers by doing this? I could show ya piles of deer that never see any of those places.

NYON ....... Always good for a few good threads here. This issue is no exception. Some great articles in this issue that I will be commenting on soon.

Good soil equals good deer. Basically ths video states that if the deer has the best nutrition gained from great soil it can reach its maximum potential. The only way to get that potential in your area is to make the soil great. After a few generations of perfect soil your deer can reach the maximum wieght and antler size. How long can this take? Will you ever get the soil right? The biggest deer I know of are in Western NY farm country with the best soil in the state. Coincidence? Others are in the other farm country in Suffolk. The study is about genetics this is why deer from different regions where picked to show that genetics does not determine deer weight and rack size, food and environment (This includes soil.) is what will dictate how big his body and antlers will grow. Now I just need about 600-700 acres to plant food in and about another 3000 around it to "keep them in my area". And a winning lotto ticket! lol

Had one Yesterday...I went to a deep woods plot that I worked up sometime ago...and was checking the sun light and possible trees that needed cutting when I heard a rustle and looked over to see a single fawn 10yrds away. It had jumped out of the brush towards me so I froze...After a minute or two stare down it chewed it's back, looked around and very slowly walked away. Not far, for it did a semi circle and came right back to it's bed. I realized what it was doing and quietly backed out so it couldn't see or hear me...what a pretty little thing she was...I was wearing my bright blue work T and she should have been able to see me clearly...makes me think she has been watching me all summer....could even have been the one along the front plots fencing that I accidentally tossed a rock on a couple of weeks ago. So I know this area is a regular route that Momma takes....just need to drag the spot and put something down.

Trophy bucks on horizon for Ny state. Bigger bucks will bring in out of state hunters. They wont have to go all the way to Ohio.illy,Kansas when they can stop off in Ny. Or something like that. LOL Someone has the bigger plan all figured out.

Just one guys worthless opinion.................(mine, not yours Oak) If AR's OR the One Buck Rule are implemented the heat will definitely be on the YEARLING buck as they will surely be killed by guys (mistakenly of course) shooting an antlerless deer in lieu of a buck sporting 3 points to a side. And only obviously the doe fawn and mature doe will take a big hit like PA hunters have done. Oh wait........they WANTED to protect the yearling buck right?

LOL funny, I do it too! How many yards and is this a good shot with the bow?

Holy crap don't tell Pygmy.......................................................

1/10th the cost of a new vehicle tops. I dont know about you, but I dont dump my cars until they are damn near shot. Only ever sold 1 to anyone other than the junk yard. I know what it takes to keep cars running. You are ex-LEO arent you?

Saved a roast and 10 lbs to make jerky for.opening day .

Whats going on with Caitlynn Jenner ??? Anything new???

I’ve been reading this post for a while and understand that everyone wants a better deer herd and greater number/size of bucks. I just want to share an idea that I don’t think was brought up in this post, if it was I missed it. My one word solution to better NYS hunting is LOGGING. Log all the NY State lands. Do it responsibly, but do it. If you get new growth (grasses, shrubs)on state lands, you’ll see deer populations increase vastly. You'll also see grouse again, more turkeys and other shootable critters Deer can’t eat what they can’t reach. Grasses don’t grow if the sun doesn’t get thru a mature canopy. Just a thought

Been out for 4 years...reeal sadd...

Oh don't be silly, Do you really expect people to understand the regulations and season dates and be REPSONSIBLE for their own actions? Come on, it is way over the top to expect someone that wants to hunt with a specific weapon to show a little self restraint and save a tag for that season. You must know that if a deer walks out there is no choice other than you MUST shoot it?

Just as funny now as the 1st time you said it. Demonstrates just how little you understand your equipment - and your own skills.

you pretty much nailed it... maybe add that its a place where most hunters wouldn't go WITH a map and a compass... a place where finding a deer is secondary to finding your way out at the end of the day..

Oh Sweet Jesus.... I'd be happy if I even had 1 of those big boys around!

What do you think Picture from June 27th still has time to put on mass. Does he look non typical, how big ??

What you tend to see with a more structured age class of bucks which some AR programs can give... (mainly because AR's usually come with higher doe harvest plan as well) is an increase is average body weight among the deer because of healthier herds and earlier born fawns. After a period of time where there is a GOOD management plan that includes the protection of younger bucks and ample population control you will get better nutrition (more available food) and allow for the breeding of potentially better blood lines. That's the science and it has been proven. Whether or not protection of young bucks is accompanied by the rest of a good management program is usually where the problem lies and will determine the success of the overall plan.

Unluckily, like Elmo, I am in a high pressure public land area and it makes it more difficult to hunt. Sometimes it is so crowded, you get shut out to hunt, Only 78 spots and some of those you will never see deer there. The other large property you get interrupted by hikers coming through, sometimes with their dog(s). Not like any of them will wear a black hat and jacket and lean against a tree to take a break when you saw a bear in the area an hour earlier. Deer hunting is a challenge and a long drag is frequently unavoidable on public land around here. A good day out deer hunting, with no cuts,scrapes, brusies, and nothing lost helps to recharge the soul and commune with nature. Get to relax, exercise in the fresh air, and observe nature. It improves one's metal health by de-stressing you. Not to say I don't have few choice words for any ticks that may get through and have to be removed afterwards.

Umm, it needs to be standing somewhere that it is legal for me to shoot it. I know you keep claiming that it is easy for a hunter to kill a deer, and maybe that is the case when you have 900 acres of your own to hunt. For those of us who ONLY hunt state land, it is a lot more of a challenge. I have killed deer 2 of the past 5 years, which to me is a good success when you are hunting either: 1) Overcrowded small patches of state land where people will walk 10 yards away and sit down or 2) Big woods up north were the deer are much more scarce and unpredictable. Personally, I have moved onto #2 and ANY deer is a good deer as long as its legal and ethical.

I could give the typical laundry list of reasons why I kill deer; meat, challenge, being in nature, deer camp, etc. But the real reason is no reason at all, it is an emotion, from my heart and soul... and not rational. I love it.

2 years ago i'd agree with you about how easy it is just to walk into the woods. Years of private land hunting has spoiled me. I challenge you to head to some of the public land and norther parts of the state and report back.

you need to know the maturity date on your selected brassica seed. if planted too early you have the chance of bolting (going to seed) when this happens it becomes very unpalatable to deer, they will not eat it.