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The kill is just a part of the journey. Everything from responsible firearm ownership, to scouting, to butchering and cooking is how I fell in love with hunting. I think its important to share that with people. I don't think I'd ever take anyone out who just wanted to kill something. While it may not be true for all, I'd like to believe that as hunters we are all conservationist at heart.

Funny story.......today I'm riding with my boss between a job and a few estimates. First thing we do is check on the crew in North Tonawanda. They're looking for a cup of coffee so we say "no sweat, we'll go grab you some". We head over to this goofy plaza on Payne Ave at Meadow Drive. Why is it goofy you ask? Do a Google Earth thingy......... So we want to get the coffee at DD's and we get wheeling around all the damned "curbage" intended to herd people around like cattle and then end up at the drive thru. The chic inside the bldg says "hello, what can I get you?" Bob starts the order: 2 medium double double, small cream & sugar, 2 muffins and a................a a a what? WTH do you mean do we want a burrito? Bob looks at me and says holy crap, we're at Taco Bell!! We peel out of their drive thru and go MAYBE 60' to the DD's drive thru. We are laughing or azz off and can hardly get the order out!! The two restaurants are stacked so close together it must happen often. Heck McDonalds is only a softball toss right next door to these two joints. So I guess you really had to be there to enjoy the humor. Twas a bright spot in our day!

Didnt read through all the post after this one, so if it was said already my apologies. Northern Zone they have Bow and Guns already in the same season. We get to hunt with ML or Bow the last week of a very short bow season to begin with. We get 2 weekends before the gun hunters are in the woods with us. Been this way for too long. We have a very long rifle season up here, no excuses why they cant take the first week of rifle and give it to ML and let bow stand alone.

Today's Buffalo News has a great story on Jennifer's winning the Federal Duck Stamp competition. A black & white picture accompanies the article along with some background on her and her art career. Funny thing though, there is no mention of this web site that I would say has propelled her to stardom. Congrats again Jennifer!

Many thanks to you all... I was browsing back through archives to find a different topic and stumbled across this. I apologize that I missed it before now! I sure wasn't trying to ignore you all. I'm really honored, thank you.

To be fair, this video does illustrate some questionable practices. Although the commercial killing of seal and whales would not fit my description of hunting. And on a personal note, I have no interest in hunting large carnivores, or using dogs to do so. I don't find it sporting or necessary. I am a lover of big cats too, and would not get any pleasure from killing one. Other people feel differently, that's OK. I can only speak for myself. Curmudgeon may get a kick out this, but I would have trouble killing a coyote. It would have to become a real problem animal for me. Why are these animals different to deer for me? I can't really say. I think it might have something to do with their reaction to pain and how they manifest suffering. I have a few cats. It tears up me when they are sick and injured. Their reactions are quite pitiful. Deer of course are equally magnificent in their own way, but I eat them, and therein also lies a difference. I personally need to have a practical pay-off to justify taking an animals life. Shooting something for fun or as trophy isn't enough for me. I cannot watch bear hunt videos. Especially over feeders. It just grates with my own personal value system. I hate to see puma's or bobcats killed. Cats and big cats are pretty amazing animals for me. Maybe my ideas are contradictory, it's possible, but some types of hunting just leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I know other Hunters who feel the same way.

LOL - to summarize - put a stand every 50yds around the field. AND don't forget 30 plus cameras.

11/32" parallel Port Orford cedar, 420-430gr raw shaft weight, 60-65# spine, 3 fletch 5 1/2" burned shield, LW helical, file sharpened 125gr Bear Razorhead.

How does one hear a coyote kill a deer??? If hunters are so worried about the coyote population then they should get their asses out and hunt them whenever the season is open. That isn't happening... therefore my conclusion would be it isn't as important as most hunters claim... otherwise it would be at the top of their list of things to hunt outside of deer season. The coyote problem in most cases is imagined not real.

Good deal, Eddie...I have been lucky....My last 2 garage fridges have been given to me by friends who were getting new ones... I call it my BBD ( Beer, Bait, Deer) fridge......

C'mon now Espresso. Statement is a bit broad. All wealthy people have a sense of entitlement is the same as saying all hunters poach. Individual actions speak to the individual, not a class he may belong to.

Sure sounded like you were worried about it when you said... "I'm simply concerned that we will be losing a more closely controlled existing zoning system (WMU system) for another band-aid that is by design worse and less finely married to habitat and local conditions than what we already have." In any case, as has been explained already, the new zones are based upon similar overall habitat characteristics. In other words, the average yearling buck in the area that I hunt, is larger than the average yearling buck in the Dacks or Catskills, and it is mostly due to soil quality, forage quality, etc. If you want to manage things to try and protect the yearling bucks, the rules you make down in the Catskills arent going to work very well around here. The rules they make in my area, will generally work in Monroe or Wayne county though. If you dont understand how it is less expensive to manage 9 zones vs 89 WMUs, especially when there is no need to, well I dont know what to tell you. I really think the zone layout is fine for the purposes of buck management, Im just waiting to see how they intend to do it.

I'm not afraid to admit that I'm all about the big antlers, but not for the reason most would think. At this stage of my life I am more about the most challenging hunts... big, more mature, bucks are just more of a challenge to find and to kill. Handcuffing myself by hunting with traditional weapons and hunting in areas that most hunters find intimidating adds to the excitement and challenge. It is never really about what animal I kill as much as how I do it. I'm not that guy that would shoot a Boone & Crockett buck off my back porch... if I can't hunt him I won't shoot him. It's all about the challenge of the hunt and the story behind it. I would still hunt smaller bucks if they gave me the challenge and thrill of a good hunt, but they don't. Honestly, I wish they still did.

So after getting these 2 fawns on camera a few days ago there were 2 other fawns with mom walking in another neighbor's backyard.Them deer been busy.

The legislature passes last two weeks for crossbow, dec just runs regs it doesn't make them, we don't even have a season till legislature passes it every year... we need to get an amendment to state constitution for right to hunt and to be regulated by game comission, then we can have game law enforcement and seasons and weapons picked by dec and not of bunch of men in suits, there wouldn't be a crossbow debate as de ec could do what it wants and put it in all of archery with no political be lobbing by special interest groups...

A guy that was a year ahead of me in high school asked if I wanted to go squirrel hunting with him . I had my dad's old 22 . Dave had a 30-06 . I asked if he was nuts . He told me to watch and learn . When a squirrel started up a tree and stopped , he would shoot as close the the head as possible without hitting it and the tree rat would fall to the ground . Dave would then wring it's neck . He called it "barking a squirrel" . I had never tried that . This was back in the 50's .

I could give the typical laundry list of reasons why I kill deer; meat, challenge, being in nature, deer camp, etc. But the real reason is no reason at all, it is an emotion, from my heart and soul... and not rational. I love it.

what????? it's only two weeks regardless of when the start date is, is it not? I think archery runs a week later this year, which in effect bumps the crossbow to a later start date..........you didn't lose anything.

Age and nutrition and then genetics last for most laymen in free range whitetails. But, I will say this - top end (ie 175+) bucks grow in typically smaller confined areas, even within larger areas of "good buck" potential. Areas that have produced a giant typically produce another and another and another through the years, whereas ten miles down the road, bucks top out less (still very good bucks) and typically do not have bucks of that giant antler size. There is a difference in good bucks and great bucks. There's nothing conclusive about this video and there is a long thread already on the QDMA forum where even there people are disagreeing. The video dances around making conclusions and leaves it open to persuasive interpretation (like marketing). What they're really doing is marketing to the 99% of hunters who care about management but likely are cornholed into limitations within their ground that they'll never be able to escape - meaning their expectations surpass reality. That has been part of the problem with QDM and the association has been smartly spending alot of time trying to re-set the expectations for the typical practitioner. Even if you have 500 acres in one parcel, your best deer might still not be a top end buck despite all of your best efforts. Yet, it's possible a 20 acre honeyhole has a history of offering encounters w/giants. But, the one common thing I see, is many land managers think all of the blood sweat and tears will result in Booners. Then they get burned out.

On Long island it's only shotgun or air gun and the squirrel season starts two months later, but Westchester is also shotgun only. I get more service out of my .410 on L.I. and only use the 20 gauge for turkey. Since the air gun rule change that allows for hunting with a over 600fps air gun I use the air rifle much more very late in the rabbit and squirrel season on L.I. IF, you make time to learn the rules L.I. can be fun to hunt, and I can be out in the field in 30 mins or less!

for his age... Now later sometime I 'll address what I have experience on when it comes to two totally different areas and antler size...That said...before the farms moved in and before they realized soybeans grow great here... a young 4 would never have had beams like this....

I was pumped when the best two year old buck that I had on trail camera showed up post season last december. You could just tell he was going to be a future stud... July 14th last year: Fully grown : Well, he showed back up a few days ago and has blossomed in to one heck of a 3 year old!!! He should be awesome in a few weeks when he pours on the tinelength...

great pic wooly of that savage deer killer..lol

Sure, I get it. I'm not out there to watch deer walk by. Will have venison in the freezer, and whether it has some huge rack on its head or not, I will still expect to have venison. I will say that I don't have all the nice crop land that a lot of people have. It is a form of mature woods hunting and I don't have the luxury of sitting there saying to myself, "Oh gee, does that one score enough or do the other dozen deer that will be walking by today have more points ..... decisions ....decisions". It is deer killing not deer watching.

Never trust a fart

depending on how the great the elevation change is, the leeward side of the hill going down to the creek should be a good travel route, especially in the morning with the predominant wind blowing over the hill and the thermals rising from the leeward side. Big bonus, its also a funnel with the creek there. about where phade put the "j"

If theres a snowmobile bridge crossing a ravine in that creek, I would have a stand on the downwind side of that immediately. If the boards are close enough to support a sled, deer are using it. Put a camera there and watch all the action that gets.

not quite that simple...........I just would rather have the chance to get out and take a few deer and enjoy myself while doing so, I certainly will pass on some deer based on several different factors, so I'm certainly not an "if it's brown it's down" guy. I would guess if my life was consumed by deer and I spent the majority of the year watching and patterning them, things may be different, but I'm not and doubt I ever will be. I fully understand what drives the trophy hunter, but that's not me......the only challenge I face deer hunting is finding the right spot to hang my stand.

I've hunted out of hang ons for over 15 years. Last year I used a climber only on public land and holy cow was I bummed at first. First things first, you need to realize there are pros and cons to climbers and the biggest pro is flexability, the biggest con is noise and weight. I started with a cheap field and stream steel. It wasn't safe and it was heavy. I used a summit sd all last year and by the end of the season I had it down. Practice packing and unpacking. You'll soon get good at it, but at first it's a nightmare. I've got clever with straps and padding to help not make noise. The occasional clank even with their sound deadening tech is still inevitable. Realize that climbing the tree is best done slowly. Taking your time to limit sweat and noise is safer and you'll feel better going a little higher. Make sure you have a good headlamp. You can't climb or unpack with a flashlight in one hand. Practice on a tree in your yard or state land. When I pick out a tree for the first time to hunt I always try to hunt it in the evening first. I've picked out trees and missed potential issues that you just dont want to fuss with in the dark. Most importantly, buy one of these: http://www.huntersafetysystem.com/hss-reflective-lifeline/ it can be used with any harness. I don't loop the tree till I'm a couple climbs up, but it's just not worth messing around with your life.

In the wild, as opposed to farm raised deer, age is the defining factor that allows for big antlered bucks. Both genetics and nutrition are very important in creating the potential for those bucks, but that potential can never be realized in a wild buck if he never reaches maturity. Having said that... if it's JUST genetics vs nutrition... it would be a tie... truly big antlers CAN NOT happen with the absence or a deficiency of either.

Did you ever try to figure out exactly how many squirrels or rabbits or game birds you would have to kill in order to equal the amount of meals from just one deer. Hunting for deer is simply a more efficient way of meat-gathering. Bigger animal - more meat. From a sporting standpoint, the deer (any deer) is a whole lot more intelligent than a lot of other game. There is a challenge component to it all. That is also one of the big draws to predator hunting. Anyone who is trying to imply that shooting a deer lacks challenge is either delusional, dishonest, or lives in an area that has a whole lot more deer than we've got. Or maybe there is something in the water there that makes their deer stupid. So yeah, there is a whole lot more challenge and accomplishment in shooting a deer vs. shooting a squirrel. Anybody want to argue that point?......lol.

Myself i do not see how nutrition can change blood. You can feed that thing gold and he will only give you the max of his genetic background. The only way to change a genetic makeup is to change a mom or dad into the pedigree of any existing whitetail....

Sounds like the people that go there are Goofy !

While I whole-heartedly agree on glassing and its benefits, I disagree a bit on this in his situation. He should go in now, make one foray, make it count on the scouting and intel, set his cams, and get out. His fields other than the fenced cattle lot, are corn. Unless lanes are open enough to glass, he isn't seeing much of anything in the fields with corn being 5ft tall now. Corn is a blessing and a curse.

If I could add one thing the "summer scouting" list, it would be to observe first hand before you go tromping through an area to randomly hang cams. You got a good chunk of land there for observation if you can slip off a few nights after dinner to just watch how things unfold in those fields from afar RIGHT NOW! Grab the binos, some skeeter spray, and anything else that makes you feel comfortable and just pay attention to where they are entering and leaving the open spaces in front of you. That's all subject to change over the next two months or so, but since we went to the October 1'st opener now, there's always hope you can nail a target buck by back tracking his summer patterns early in the season. I'm not gonna get into dissecting your map any further than saying I'd be concentrating on that BIG GREEN area right now to learn how he dots connect from there.

The only thing I'd add to the great info above, is to pattern your shotgun with the loads you intend to use, at the ranges you intend to shoot. Just in case you don't already know it, there can be big variations in patterns between different loads.

Your personal opinion (prejudice) and attack on me regarding my statement is indicative of a man who will not answer the question presented to him. Have you ever looked into the history of PP? Heard of Margaret Sanger? Acknowledge the inherit racism in her founding of PP? Understood her desire for population control? Read about her elitist desires for a white utopia? Of course you have. But it would be against your political ideology to admit it. You're not fooling anyone with your insults. They're just the inane rebuttals of a Leftist political tool.

Few other spots Id be looking at as well....

Let me repeat that I really like this property. It's very huntable. Pressure as noted changes things, so you must take that into consideration. Second, I left out the hedge row based on the fact you said it was a ditch. I summarize my thoughts on it in two words - hunt it. Set-up in between two corn field this fall, this area will have significant deer traffic and will most certainly result in some potential beds. In ag land, nothing beats a swale irrigation ditch or thin hedge row for bedding. The biggest bucks I have ever jumped in ag land have almost always been around wooded points into corn or ditches/hedgerows/breaks between corn fields. Second, this creek provides ultimate access and could serve as a potential hard break with which you could potentially hunt more often and pressure without doing damage. The key is access. In theory, this creek is essentially in a large funnel. On a W or SW wind, which is probably predominant, you can access the creek at the N or S points and never set foot on the ground west of the creek. This would allow you to hunt the heck out of it come rut time. You burn minimal ground, even though the area east of the creek is also part of that funnel. A is overlooked because it is near the road and at a bend of homes. If deer can cross that major road, this adds another dimension to the funneling effect. Either side of the creek needs to be inspected. I, H, J, and E are all the same story, part of the funnel. Both sides of creek need to be inspected. Ideally with a W or SW or even NW wind, you can have a stand on the east side of the creek and shoot across it, or vice versa for other winds. Walk the length of the creek and look for crossings. There are likely crossings around A I and H because they lead to woods either across the street or the bend in the woods. B is a good area funneling deer between the corn, the ditch/hedgerow, and the creek. You may find beds here and in between B and J. F is a little point in the woods where deer will cross the field. If your drawing is accurate, there is no corn directly above F and if so...that area is going to have alot of action similar to the ditch if there is swale or unfarmed ground. If the whole field is corn, meaning that little open area above F is too, it's still going to get some action. C is another similar story only it adds the funneling effect of the ditch/hedgerow. D plays on the cattle being fenced in. Deer are lazy and will take the quickest/easiest route to get to another spot in some situations, which is why funnels kill. Deer will transgress the corn, exiting and entering. The cattle fencing pinches down a spot right where the deer will first have a chance to get to the corn. As a bonus, I'd walk the entire line where the corn meets the cattle fencing. This likely may result in swale grass or travel routes. It might even not get alot of pressure or visibility to hunters, and you may find beds there. G would be better more WSW than it is, but borders are what they are. You have a double inside corner pinching down, creating another prime spot. With SW winds, you might catch bucks moving through that funnel. I would expect if there is hunting on the adjacent property, that there is someone in that pinch, so look out for signs of pressure that might be forcing the deer to one side of the pinch, etc. It might tip you off to making a play on that info based on the pressure from that hunter.

Its true people shoot elk, buffalo, wolves, etc. that wander outside of the Yellowstone into legal hunting areas. The difference is those animals migrate out of the park on their own, these guys lured the animal out of the park by dragging a dead animal behind a vehicle to where this guy was waiting to shoot it. It turns out the animal was killed illegally (per Zim officials) and two guys have been arrested. This occurred before the media in the US got ahold of the story. If this guy trusted the guides without looking into whether or not he was shooting an animal legally then he is just as big a d-bag as the guides. There is definitely a lot of media bias to this story and it sucks this guy is getting ruined because of it, but It's okay for people to think he's a scumbag for being involved in illegal hunting activities... if its true.

Phenomenal property to hunt! Wow...does that ever lay out nice. Some good advice here so far.

Thank you Rob! I did a little scouting. That area you circled on the right is where the deer are bedding, right next to the corn. I'll be purchasing a few trail cams and scouting more. Gonna go today and check the one cam I have set up basically on your South circle. I appreciate everyones input!

This will surprise some considering my posts but, Squirrel,turkey, bear and deer. The main reasons: 1.) weather I love the spring and fall weather temps are cool in the early mornings, the air has a distinct smell to it. Later after a good frost or two no bugs. 2.) More of a challenge...squirrel takes timing and a good aim...turkey you really need to be on your game to call one in. Bear ,well no baiting in NY so it takes skill to find them and more to get them in close enough...admittedly I'm still working on that. I hunt them only with my bow...and having to go out in the dark with bear in the area with just a bow and seeing one even at a distance is exciting. 3.) Easy of cleaning the squirrel and turkey...hey I'm getting older...gutting skinning and butchering a deer is a chore. The biggest thing I enjoy about deer season is the prepping for it and sitting in the stand watching the deer and other animals out there.

I use to hunt them quite a bit. My buddy always had a beagle. Often the dog(s) will get on a rabbit and the bunny will stay in front of the dog enough to think its safe. the rabbits almost always circle and return to the area of the original jump point, often stopping to rest because they think the dog is still far enough away. This offers good shots. My buddy,s father, old Italian guy who is now gone, would always use a bolt action .22 and go for head shots on the ones that thought they were out of danger. He did well. He would always yell at us for using shotguns on rabbits. A year or so before the guy died we were at a party at my friends house. He served up some BBQ rabbit. It was great. The old man got a bite of bird shot and went off on my friend. I don't understand Italian 100% but I know enough. "Those f'ing shot guns for a little rabbit"..or something like that..LOL. I miss it.

Look for tall grass. In the fall/winter when it dies down you'll find rabbits hiding in them. Also any old apple trees will hold them around. Went last year on a couple of public spots in Delaware close to the Sullivan border for the goof. As I walked around rabbits and grouse both flushed. No dog jut me and a 12 gauge. Got 2 rabbits and one grouse...could have had more but I kept missing the gouse and got to lazy to look for more rabbits.

Irrelevant! FSW is the law!

Don't even get me started on that d-bag.

I always carry an empty Poland Springs plastic water bottle with me. When I feel the need to, I drop my pants and place the bottle on the bung hole and let it rip. I cap the bottle as soon as I can to make sure I don't let any out and spook a deer. At the end of the day, I go home and give the bottle to my wife and say "honey, take a wiff of that".

I thought about doing that this year, only broadcasting both corn and beans. I decided to broadcast corn and plant beans elsewhere... http://www.qdma.com/articles/mixing-corn-and-soybeans-in-food-plots

Well guys tonite i got one 6:30pm 20 yrds quartering away... THUNK! however when i first shot because of the way he ran (holding his one leg and not putting weight on it) off i thought i must have shot right under him and hit his leg... i was kinda pissed and called a few ppl and got some advice... i waited about 15 min and then got down and looked for my arrow... it took me another 15 min to find it... the broadhead was destroyed (i had heard a good solid bone hit when i shot, im thinking its opposite side shoulder) and there was a good amount of blood on the arrow... i trailed for approx 100 yrds (HEAVY BLOOD) and then lost it... i called a buddy and he came and together we trailed it another 80 to 100 yrds and lost the trail again... im 100% sure the deer is dead right in that area (like within 25 yrds) but we quit for the night a few min ago... im gonna go out and look at first light... Im sure i did a good shot cause we were finding bright red foamy blood and as far as i know legs dont bleed foamy blood only lungs do hopefully i can post some kill pics early tommorow the thing that messes me up a bit is im leaving for PA at 9:30 tommorow morn so i need to go out as soon as it gets light that way i have plenty of time to get him... Oh BTW it was a nice 6pt