Is there really such thing as a brush caliber?

[10point]

Since i was a kid i always here people saying big slower moving calibers are better in brush but are there any  real scientific tests that show this ? 

Like is a slug really better in brush then  270? For example .  

[airedale]

Through the years I have seen and read many articles where various gun writers would set up experiments and shoot at targets through a maze of simulated brush conditions trying to find an answer to the brush buster question.

From what results I have seen there is no caliber or bullet type that will reliably fly true to the target after hitting any brush type material. Hitting brush or anything like it upsets the flight and causes bad wobble of the projectile. Once that happens predictability goes out the window.

After conducting these experiments the writers all recommended precision shooting through an opening in the brush instead of trying to bust through it because from what they saw there was no such thing as a true brush buster.

On a personal note on a moose hunt I fired a shot at a distance of about 75 yards with a 7MM Rem Mag at a nice bull, I took a heart lung shot as he was going through some fairly thick brush. At the shot he turned and started away from me in the opposite direction which provided me with an open shot at his neck which I took and it dropped him on the spot. When we took off his hide we found the first shot had hit some brush and keyholed, it was found just under the skin almost in perfect condition.

For me it is best to wait for a open shot if possible if that does not happen try to find that good opening in the brush that offers a clear bullet path and have a gun that you are confident in so you can pull it off.

Al

Edited November 13, 2016 by airedale

[thphtm]

Bullets that do not get deflected that easy by hitting brush as a 12 gauge slug, 44 mag. , 35 rem. So they say but they all can get deflected a bit.

[hunterdan44]

Through the years I have seen and read many articles where various gun writers would set up experiments and shoot at targets through a maze of simulated brush conditions trying to find an answer to the brush buster question.
From what results I have seen there is no caliber or bullet type that will reliably fly true to the target after hitting any brush type material. Hitting brush or anything like it upsets the flight and causes bad wobble of the projectile. Once that happens predictability goes out the window.
After conducting these experiments the writers all recommended precision shooting through an opening in the brush instead of trying to bust through it because from what they saw there was no such thing as a true brush buster.
On a personal note on a moose hunt I fired a shot at a distance of about 75 yards with a 7MM Rem Mag at a nice bull, I took a heart lung shot as he was going through some fairly thick brush. At the shot he turned and started away from me in the opposite direction which provided me with an open shot at his neck which I took and it dropped him on the spot. When we took off his hide we found the first shot had hit some brush and keyholed, it was found just under the skin almost in perfect condition.
For me it is best to wait for a open shot if possible if that does not happen try to find that good opening in the brush that offers a clear bullet path and have a gun that you are confident in so you can pull it off.
Al

Well said I concur.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rob-c]

I would say no . I hunted with a 12 gauge 870 for years and I used the 385 grain Remington copper solids in it . One morning had a shot at a doe about 60 yards out she was calm and she stoped I had a perfect broadside shot touched off a round and she dropped right to the ground . I waited a bit and climbed down walked up to her and no hole or blood on her side  I was rather surprised , the slug had hit a 1/4 inch branch  about 8-10 feet in front of her and deflected and hit her in the head. So even shooting a slug that big and heavy it still deflected . 

[10point]

28 minutes ago, rob-c said:

I would say no . I hunted with a 12 gauge 870 for years and I used the 385 grain Remington copper solids in it . One morning had a shot at a doe about 60 yards out she was calm and she stoped I had a perfect broadside shot touched off a round and she dropped right to the ground . I waited a bit and climbed down walked up to her and no hole or blood on her side  I was rather surprised , the slug had hit a 1/4 inch branch  about 8-10 feet in front of her and deflected and hit her in the head. So even shooting a slug that big and heavy it still deflected . 

Yea i had  similar experiences once with a 3 inch  rem mag  slugger and once with 150 gr  30-06 bullet 

No luck getting to the deer  through thick brush .  Thats why i like  semi automatics  better for hunting brush it  give you more chances of getting a fast shot off when the deer clears the brush at least in thoery . 

[Water Rat]

I always remember hearing that a 30.30 was a good "brush gun".

[ants]

I remember watching a video (yes video) years ago, where they tested all 

kinds of rifle rounds as to how they penetrated brush. They fired at a target 50 yds away with brush ( not even real thick brush) about 3 yards in front of the target. Every round deflected significantly. Most came nowhere near the kill zone, and some didn't even hit the target. They fired everything from 22LR to 30-06…..same results with all.

[Salmon_Run]

Bullets will be deflected by any brush they encounter....Well said above...

[DirtTime]

Why would you shoot through brush? I was taught to only shoot at a clear and present target. To each their own I guess.

[Buckmaster7600]

I would say 39 is your best bet, only because all others have been tried and failed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbHunterNY]

well I'm mixed about this because of the group I'm around.  no gun is a good brush gun and ALL calibers can get deflected.  Field & Stream's "Gun Nut" David Petzal shot some monster calibers through brush to find that even stout 250+ grain bullets can deflect significantly at close range.  i know of many including myself that have had small sapplings and branches get in the way.  I blew through a sapling with a 150gr 30-06 rem cor-lokt bullet at less than 100 yards.  deer was 10 yards beyond that and it deflected and probably fragmented so much it didn't even hit him.  i followed up quick and got only because there was an opening.  part of my group has had the same or similar thing happen. some have stepped up to shooting something with a flatter nose and heft behind it like a 45-70 or 338-06 after a couple of them had the same thing happen but when the bullet hit the heavy branch or tree it retained enough weight and energy to kill the deer behind it.  ALL bullets deflect but going with experience heavy sturdy bullets with flat noses with some push behind them are better. That said you can only be saved that way in rare circumstances.  I still hunt with my 30-06 pointed nose bullets and we're hunting deer not alaskan brown bear.

[Fletch]

I would agree with most above, no such thing and you should not be shooting through the brush.

[Larry]

There is no such thing as a brush busting bullet or caliber they all deflect or brake up

[10point]

13 hours ago, ....rob said:

Why would you shoot through brush? I was taught to only shoot at a clear and present target. To each their own I guess.

When you hunt in the woods sometimes  its not exactly obvious that those little branchs are in the way .  You dont always  notice them .

Edited November 17, 2016 by 10point

[chenango]

When you hunt in the woods sometimes  its not exactly obvious that those little branches are in the way .  You dont always  notice them .

I found this very true through the years. I had a 16 ga. foster slug stick in a 1-1/4inch tree 5 yrds. in front of me and caused me to lose a nice 6-point buck also had a 16 ga. slug riccohet off a branch and hit a buck in the brisket losing the deer.   Shot my 44 mag revolver at a doe just before sunset and found that the 44 240gr. XTP loaded at a moderate 1200fps had gone thru the center of a tree 1-1/2" to 2.0" dia. knocking the tree down and busted a rib going into deer and stopped at the skin on other side. I had no blood trail and thought I missed the deer but upon leaving the woods I found the deer dead and it fell on the trail I had used to enter and leave the woods. I call this my miracle deer because it was the during the last 1/2 hour of the last day of deer season that I connected.

You just never know!

Chenango

 

[Elmo]

 

[chas0218]

On 11/13/2016 at 8:40 AM, rob-c said:

I would say no . I hunted with a 12 gauge 870 for years and I used the 385 grain Remington copper solids in it . One morning had a shot at a doe about 60 yards out she was calm and she stoped I had a perfect broadside shot touched off a round and she dropped right to the ground . I waited a bit and climbed down walked up to her and no hole or blood on her side  I was rather surprised , the slug had hit a 1/4 inch branch  about 8-10 feet in front of her and deflected and hit her in the head. So even shooting a slug that big and heavy it still deflected . 

Yup same thing happened to me with my 20 gauge and pine tree branch but instead hit the button buck standing behind and back of the doe.

[Nomad]

My thinking is that a brush gun , is a gun for short range shots , i.e. In the brush, not shooting through brush but hunting in it .

The 35 Remington has great killing power out to 150 maybe 200 in the right hands, then it drops like a rock . So a short range rifle, accurate and powerfull at short distances . Often in a small compact package , often in a pump action for fast follow up shots .

Edited December 3, 2016 by Larry302

[Deerstalker]

8 hours ago, Elmo said:

 

This video i dont find very scientific 

You need to put the gun in a vice and you need to make it  so the same amount of branches hits each bullet as it goes to the target for it to be a real scientific test. 

[Chef]

A brush gun is a smaller more maneuverable rifle, like my 30-30 it will deflect the same as any other caliber, but the gun is easier to swing while walking in thick brush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gjs4]

A brush gun is a smaller more maneuverable rifle, like my 30-30 it will deflect the same as any other caliber, but the gun is easier to swing while walking in thick brush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can swing it but not shoot it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[sailinghudson25]

I'm on a small hunting forum with some very experienced hunters elsewhere.

The consensus between most of them is like you said, don't spray and pray.  wait till you got an opening.

However, their solution.  A fast cartridge with a close zero.   Like 7mm mag, .270, or 300 win mag.  Zero the gun at 75 yard.  Get a good power scope.  Only shoot supported.  Basically make a ninja gun.  The bullet can be aimed through real small opening with minimal deflection.  And the gun's scope can see the brush.

Plan B, if you don't shoot supported / in a spot where you know the brush well.  Have a gun that offers good followup shots.  Low recoil, little barrel rise after the shot, lower power or iron sights, quick to reload or automatic.

My solution evaporated on me with Homo's gun ban.  I was building an Ar-15 with an eotech 512 chambered in 458 socom.

However, I don't really shoot like that.   My plan is a stout gun with a stout bullet.  It'll deflect, but a big bullet with a bad shot is a touch better than a bad shot with a smaller bullet.  Atleast I may get some more blood on the leaves.  This is my browning BLR in 450 marlin.

A little unorthidox, but I wam building a chinese early type 56 SKS for adirondacks hunting.  Hormady softpoints in 123gr.   A lyman 66 peep sight.  I am hoping to find a tritium front sight for an AK that be changed over.  Gun is really light, 2" groups at 100 without a peep sight with these bullets.  Gun is very reliable, easy to clean if it gets wet,has a huge and quiet ambidexterous safety, and has a large charging handle if it doesn't cycle for whatever reason.  If it shot 358" bullets, it would be ideal in my book.  Ideally, I'd love a BAR in 30-06, but I started trapping this year, bought an ATV in the fall, and I'm building a new food plot on a new property.  So, it'll have to wait a year or two........... 

Edited April 11, 2017 by sailinghudson25

[NFA-ADK]

I waited for one brute to go past a small bush with tiny branches and a few leaves even though he was only a foot max past it.  Even with the 44 I waited for a clear shot.  If you are shooting through brush it should be a clear opening you can thread!  Kind of goes back to knowing your weapon and being proficient with it!

I think when the term was spoken years back it was more about having a gun with little recoil for follow up shots and easy of use in heavy cover. 

The heaver rounds tend to have better forward velocity that will deflect less (Perception) this is why the 30-30 was so popular.  Easy gun to shoot and handle for many, with low recoil a follow up shot was not very hard.  It was also though to be a good brush gun.

I have to agree with the fact that no gun is a good brush gun to shoot through.  I also saw the video with all the different calibers and they pretty much proved than even a slight deflection at those speeds basically will cause havoc on the bullets trajectory, velocity, stability and integrity. 

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

i realize this thread was resurrected a bit......

being an engineer i'm pretty good at physics.  imo it's not the HV.  it is the pointed profile and lighter weight of the high velocity bullets that do them in to deflect or not carry enough foward moment.