Too many hunting accidents this year

[vizslas]

we are asking stupid people to make sensible choices... i have had slugs hit trees near where i was sitting i felt i need to fire at the running deer . who were running right at me, just to get them to change course.these guys were at least three hundred yards away. there shots were so far off the mark that when those deer were 100 yards from me slugs were hitting the tree tops or at least half way up. again stupid cant be fixed. that's just one incident... and so it goes on i go out every year in full camo... that way i can catch the poachers coming onto my moms land . last year i almost got into a fist fight with three guys who i caught within a hundred feet from the house driving deer out of the swamp... i had my coat off and threw down the gun they just cussed at me and claimed stupidity and now i was trespassing because the farmer behind my moms gave them permission and they were going to call the cops...got news for you boys dumb is not just fun its bliss too. no chance that the woods i have been hunting since i was a teenager,that i never talked to the landowner. i feel like i should have just put them all out of their misery. right then and there. this kinda shit really tunes my strings...

 

[Doc]

Something to think about when saying things like "always id your target and what is in the foreground and background".

When clubs set up public shooting ranges, their interpretation of target id and background and foreground safety is to bulldoze up earthen backstops, and clear all vegetation and obstructions before and beyond the targets all the way to the earthen backstops. There is a defined shooting line and an area where no one should be when someone is ready to shoot. There is signage and sometimes even fencing in an effort to control human traffic to ensure that the shooters have damned good certainty that they really are sure of the target and safe visual conditions of the foreground and background. They truly understand and abide by those basic safety features before the first trigger is pulled there.

Ok, so now think about the average hunting shot selection at a deer...... Shots that you have personally taken so many times in the past. Likely there is no earthen backstop unless purely by coincidence the land naturally rises behind the deer. No clearing of foreground and background. In fact most likely it is littered with fallen logs, trees and bushes. There is no defined shooting line or area where other hunters have been told not to be.

Now consider the lack of a blaze orange law such that people can be concealed in total camo in line with the deer that you are about to shoot (and we all have seen those convincing camo ads that show how effective camo can be).

The point is that it really sounds good when we talk about knowing what is in the foreground and background before you shoot. But unless you always hunt on an organized cleared and back-stopped shooting range, no one really abides by those rules. And without blaze orange being worn or mandated, you are not even putting the odds in favor of something ugly not happening in those kinds of uncontrolled circumstances.

Just thought I would enter a little reality into the discussion.

[growalot]

Correct Doc...... this goes to my post, about slow stalks...Now 9 out of 10 times there's nothing to worry about. Not all hunters pull up for that quick running shot...Many do though and I can assure you there is just one thing they have that split second focus on and it's not what is beyond that deer. Until you have pulled up in such a case to find the sliver of an orange hat just peeking over the back of the deer....... on private land , you know you are the only one that's suppose to be there, you haven't a clue.  There is nothing to describe such a moment when your finger is on the trigger and some guys head pops up behind that deer.  There is also apparently no getting people to "think about it" either. The only thing that saved that trespassers life was my personal OCD about a clean quick kill. For I hesitated as she stopped and looked at me. giving him time to take those last couple of steps to get in view directly behind her coming up the hill in the golden rod...tan coveralls with an orange cap..He never saw her or me and I was in  full blaze coveralls.  He could have just as well shot me...lay of the land...So  no you'll never catch me shooting at a jumped deer...even on my place...because I understand what can happen. I understand about dips and knolls ,how sky lining a deer can happen ...I also know how someone in all blaze can be shot because he was behind a bush when his buddy jumped a deer and forgot about which direction the other drivers were....There was no laughing about it afterwards....... at the funeral.....

[Doc]

Deer are not pheasants. I have never taken a running shot at a deer.....never. I don't criticize those who can successfully do so, but in my case I know better. As Clint Eastwood would say, A man has to know his limitations".

Another benefit of still hunting, is that if you are truly trying to spot that tine-tip or tail flicker, or other telltale signs of deer, you get a very specific and detailed picture of everything that is in front of you. That includes deer as well as any source of potential danger ahead. When I come across another hunter, my focus immediately changes from deer hunting to watching what that other hunter is doing and I am in high alert defensive mode.

But the point is that it should never be assume that a still-hunter is anymore at risk or poses anymore risk than somebody hunting in any other style. When I finally get off stand, nothing occurs that changes my attitude about safety.

[growalot]

Quote

  There is also apparently no getting people to "think about it" either.

enough said

[Salmon_Run]

Simple rule: one is responsible for the complete trajectory of that bullet from the time it exits the barrel.......

If one can not ensure a completely safe path for that projectile, keep your finger off the trigger.....

 

 

[Salmon_Run]

The 12 Golden rules for Safe Gun Handling

Always treat the gun as loaded.

Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

Always keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy.

Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

Learn the mechanical and handling characteristics of the gun you are using.

Always use proper Ammunition.

Be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before loading and shooting.

If your gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled, hold your shooting position for several seconds; then with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, carefully unload the gun.

Don't rely on the gun's safety to keep it from firing.

Be aware of your surroundings when handling guns so you don't trip or lose your balance and accidentally point and/or fire the gun at anyone or anything.

[ANTLERS]

This is totally unacceptable, happened yesterday 

[Salmon_Run]

Another slob of society gives us all a big black eye !!

Hope to ENCON officer and his Lieutenant make full recoveries..

[fasteddie]

To add to what Growalot said ---- My sons and I hunt private land . When one of us is going to move or get down from a stand we let each other know before doing anything .We all wear blaze orange . You never know what someone on an adjacent property might do though .                               

[ny hunter]

This horrible! Thoughts and prayers for him and his family.......

[Two Track]

My dad was almost on the the receiving end twice by unsafe hunters - he had to the hit the dirt once.  He has never hunted with those cousins or uncle again.  Walking single file along a trail, rabbit jumps and runs past 1 guy who just turns 180 degrees and shoots with my dad a few feet behind him. The uncle just pulls up the gun and shoots at the squirrel over my dad's head.  The uncle was too far away to make the shot, and the shot pellets luckily bounced off the back of my dad's hunting coat.

Needless to say, safety was drilled into me. Orange hat and completely orange vest - cold weather, orange hunting jacket.  When i was younger before out growing it, orange coveralls for deer season.

There is nothing like sitting out on public land hearing something slowly moving towards you and then suddenly seeing two hunters in full camo during rifle/shotgun season between two large pines.

If small game hunters are required to wear orange, why not during rifle deer season?

When my grandparents were still around and had the farm, we picked up FRS radio's to communicate - climbing down, heading towards you, got one down and need help dragging...  Very helpful when you are out of sight range of each other.  Previously had to wave off if something was spotted.  Like the time my dad headed over to check on me and I was watching two deer under the hollys without enough target to take a shot. Saw him because of the orange hat and vest. Had to hand signal  STOP... 2 ...pointed direction.. 1 and made a signal of antlers.  of course dad kicked them out the wrong direction, but we could see each other and stay safe.

Staying safe and seeing deer is a win every time,  Bringing one home too, well that is the icing on the cake.

My sister was never allow to hunt with a gun, play dog for rabbit season yes.  She closes her eyes target shooting just before pulling the trigger using a .410.  So she would not be safe afield with a gun.

Probably should have a mandatory section of hunter safety of actually handling and shooting firearms or require a firearms training course at a range before hunter safety.

[NFA-ADK]

I have had a few close calls and it was up in the ADK.  Personally I understand the use of hunter orange but have some issues with it and weather is actually makes you safer in the woods. 

Personally I have had many hunters pass me anywhere from 5 yards to 100 where they never see me at all as I was in full camo.  Would the orange have helped them see me or something they need to focus on with their scope?  That is one issue I have seen.  Second is many times these idiots who shoot people are doing something illegal and it does not matter what the person was wearing, like the guy in full orange suit who was killed a few years ago.

This safety issue is another reason I took up bow hunting and tend to stay on Long Island during southern zone rifle season.  You can be the safest person with full orange clothes, it will not stop a moron.  They shoot in the dark, they do not identify and place shot, they shoot from the vehicle and drive around with loaded guns. 

If you intentionally pull a trigger to shoot an animal it had better be one or you should go to jail for a long time.  Not the same as an accidental discharge or deflection IMO.  Nothing is black and white especially with the news media reporting, they will make any gun hunting story sound as bad as possible just to get viewers and put down the sport. 

 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

I have said it for a long time, the only way to make the woods safer is to put antlerless in its own season. This would make an individual visually ensure the "target" Has or doesn't have antlers and would make do away with shooting at movement. There is a reason why it is safer to hunt areas that do not have dmp's.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uptown Redneck]

1 hour ago, Two Track said:

Probably should have a mandatory section of hunter safety of actually handling and shooting firearms 

When I took my hunters safety class we had to go to a local gun range as part of the course and handle and shoot a rifle in order to successfully pass the class. Have they eliminated this from the current classes? 

[left field]

Some have it, some don't. Mine didn't. 

What's the follow-up of the guys who shoot in the dark at sound? Walk over and see if anything's dead?

 

[Deerstalker]

My  opinion is that if you shoot at someone who has  a orange vest on you should go to jail for a year no excuse for that .  That will make people think twice before they pull that trigger at a bush or sound . 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Deerstalker

[Doc]

11 hours ago, NFA-ADK said:

Personally I understand the use of hunter orange but have some issues with it and weather is actually makes you safer in the woods. 

There has been so many times that I have been made aware of a hunters presence simply because of a flash of orange. In almost every case, that orange alerted me that a hunter was coming my way long before I could even recognize them a person. I have also moved on from a stand location because that orange told me that we were hunting too close to each other to be a safe situation. That sort of thing happens all the time. But also, I have approached guys that were dressed in full camo and got right next to them before realizing there was somebody there. There is no doubt in my mind that hunter orange is a highly effective safety feature in gun season ..... Highly effective! There is no doubt in my mind that it is unreasonable to even question that. It is important to be seen by other hunters, and as far as I can imagine, there is no situation where the hunter orange is a liability unless you are a poacher or a trespasser.

Will blaze orange stop bullets? ..... absolutely not, but the likelihood that it will keep that bullet from being launched in the first place is pretty darned high. No, blaze orange does not improve the mentality of anyone. It just gives them a chance of knowing there is a hunter over there. Nothing else in the woods can do that for you. No other safety feature can do this for you, and if you still get shot, then somebody should open an investigation as to whether it really is a homicide.

[josephmrtn]

On 11/28/2016 at 10:40 AM, ApexerER said:

I do not think we need more laws...we need more common sense....Accidents are just that....Accidents. Sometimes accidents are unfortunately tragic. We are all human, whether we want to admit it or not we all have momentary lapses in judgment. I had a lapse in judgment on opening day this year. I never wear my coat into my stand. I put it in my backpack. I put on an orange vest over my base layer and vest. When I get to my treestand I take off the orange vest and wrap it around the tree and put my coat on. When I leave I take my coat off and put my orange vest on. I have been doing that for years. When I shot my deer in my haste I got down with my camo coat on never even thinking about the vest. I stayed with my downed deer as other hunters came to help me not even thinking about the fact that I am in 100% camo. None of the guys said anything to me. I took numerous pictures...etc. So excited in the moment I never even thought about it. You know who mentioned it....My dad, when I showed him the pics of the biggest buck I have ever killed and may ever kill the first thing he said to me wasn't nice deer. It was a glare followed by where is your orange!  Now...god forbid if something happened that day...A law wouldn't have made a difference.....the story would have been hunter shot wearing no orange...but that would have been half the story.

@ApexerER totally agree. Legislating common sense has never worked and never will, we have speed limits and seatbelt laws and yet every year people are killed speeding and killed by their seatbelts that are supposed to protect them. There is no way to legislate idiot drivers, much as there is no way to legislate idiot hunters. And yes I do realize accidents can happen even if we are being careful

[Grizz1219]

Should go with hunter orange, drop the rule with no hunting 30 minutes before or after sunrise/sunset (Like all the other states around).... increase the shotgun only areas.... 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

Should go with hunter orange, drop the rule with no hunting 30 minutes before or after sunrise/sunset (Like all the other states around).... increase the shotgun only areas.... 

how many of the accidents were caused by a rifle that having a shotgun would have prevented??

[Two Track]

My hunter Safety course took place in a classroom on a technical college campus - so no firearms there... period.  That was also 20 + years ago.

My son's was at a VFW post in town, handle firearms, yes,  shooting definitely not possible.

Daughter at a American Legion post in country-side with several acres of of hill-side property. They had groups of students carry empty firearms and practice carrying in single line, turning, and traversing through terrain, brush, and crossing a ditch.  They had limited target shooting after taking the written test.

So depends on where they can teach the classes as to what they can to, but unless you take the split home-study and range course, firearm handling and shooting are not required.

I took an archery class that including tracking and we had to follow a blood trail to find the body.  The stuffed animal deer was only about a foot in size, it made you practice what was discussed in class - drip direction, pooling where bedded down, checking ground and grasses for blood or signs of being traveled through.  Even had a live demo on ladder stands and climbers.

Ideally all courses should have a field day - handing/shooting firearms, tracking/blood trailing, and climber/ladder stands sessions.  Things that if no one in your family hunts or use, they can safely show/demonstrate and have you perform it under supervision to make corrections or answer questions before you go on a hunt and think what did the book say... You actually got to practice with instructors that re-enforces any book or video you used. There is just only so much time available to the instructors, locations to use, and time the students have to attend class.

Hopefully all new hunters will have a good mentor out with them a few times to keep them on the right path and re-enforce what was in the class.

[Two Track]

Certain public lands even if rifle is allowed, I would still use a shotgun, especially for potentially crowded opening weekend.  Some places where rifle is allowed by me, is just too close for comfort to some houses bordering public land.  You miss that back stop... well that is something I don't want to dwell on.

[Uptown Redneck]

51 minutes ago, Two Track said:

I took an archery class that including tracking and we had to follow a blood trail to find the body.  The stuffed animal deer was only about a foot in size, it made you practice what was discussed in class - drip direction, pooling where bedded down, checking ground and grasses for blood or signs of being traveled through.  Even had a live demo on ladder stands and climbers.

 

My archery class also included a morning session at a local horse farm where a blood tracking exercise was held, Of course we adults in the group let the kids present track the blood trail while we aimlessly followed behind and we were more then happy to let them find the stuffed deer. Hey, the class was held early on a Saturday morning and they offered no breakfast.  

[Doc]

17 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

how many of the accidents were caused by a rifle that having a shotgun would have prevented??

Unfortunately, that is a question that we will never answer. We will never know how the addition of all these recent new legal rifle counties have impacted deer takes or safety numbers. None of that kind of info is being collected by the DEC. I guess they don't want to know.