Small Engine/Bad Gas

[Lawdwaz]

I have a Honda generator EB 3000C I bought new about 18 years ago and it had been flawless until last summer.  I fired it up in September and it ran perfect until I put a heavy load on it then it would stall.  I talked to a few guys and everybody pointed at bad fuel that might have gummed things up internally.  A couple weeks later I drained all the (junk but not old ethanol gas) fuel in the tank & carb and then life/hunting season stepped in and I left it until this morning.  I pulled the air filter and carb, cleaned things up but didn't really do much at all, in hindsight.  Looked and sniffed around mostly..........

Put 'er back together and put fresh ethanol free fuel in it.  Two pulls and she's humming along just like when I had the trouble; perfectly.  I tried a couple low amp things; trouble light and hedge trimmer.  They worked like they should then I tried the circular saw and a heavy duty commercial shop vacuum and all was great.

Until I had this trouble last year I didn't sweat the ethanol laced fuel in any of my small engines.  Even though I didn't (and still don't now) now what the trouble was I decided to buy all ethanol free fuel for all my small engines and have been using it since last September. 

I'll fire it back up next weekend and run it some more under load..........

Is it possible that just the monkeying around I did, did the trick?

[Robhuntandfish]

My GF's mower would drive her crazy.   It wouldnt run, kept stalling.  I would pick it up and put new gas in it and it ran fine.  She would put more fresh gas in the gas can but still have problems.  Had to completely dump all the old gas and put all new in the can and it worked fine since.   Any of that older ethanol in it and it wouldn't run.  I never keep it around for more than a month without using it.  Most new engines are setup for this fuel and not the non ethanol is what I have been told, just can't let it set for long periods of time.

[Bionic]

Could have had something large enough in the tank getting sucked against the fuel line off the tank.  Once under a heavier load, and harder surge on the motor, and its calling for more fuel, it might have had enough pressure to suck something in, or against that line.  On another note sometimes just a light tap on the carb bowl too can dislodge grit, and fix your issue, if it was a minimal carb issue.

Ethanol fuel will start to condensate in the tank as well I have heard.  Some say always store with a full tank, to minimize surface area in the tank for minimized condensation, and some say run it empty for storing.  I shut the fuel valves off if equipped, and let it stall if letting sit, been ok so far.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Bionic

[Jeremy K]

The yellow film that gets left behind from the corn fuel is horrendous ! The float bowls on my snowmobile need to be cleaned every year ,it's like a hard yellow shell . The stuff is garbage. Even the ethanol treatment doesn't completely solve the issue. 

[philoshop]

Ethanol fuel is generally fine for a vehicle that's driven on a regular basis, but should never be used in anything that might sit idle for more than a couple of weeks. And should never, ever be used in small engines, IMO.  And even non-ethanol fuel will go bad over time if left in a half-empty tank, especially if it's subjected to temperature changes. If your "monkeying around" included draining and replacing the old gas, I'd be comfortable saying that's what did it. If it had been ethanol gas you'd be rebuilding the carb and replacing the fuel hoses.

[Lawdwaz]

36 minutes ago, philoshop said:

Ethanol fuel is generally fine for a vehicle that's driven on a regular basis, but should never be used in anything that might sit idle for more than a couple of weeks. And should never, ever be used in small engines, IMO.  And even non-ethanol fuel will go bad over time if left in a half-empty tank, especially if it's subjected to temperature changes. If your "monkeying around" included draining and replacing the old gas, I'd be comfortable saying that's what did it. If it had been ethanol gas you'd be rebuilding the carb and replacing the fuel hoses.

It WAS ethanol gas, I never bought (knowingly) ethanol FREE gas since ethanol gas became the norm.......I drained the tank/bowl/line completely in last September, it sat dry as a bone until today.

I should add that I've always been very attentive to running my two generators (the other is a EU 2000), chainsaw, lawnmower, snowblower. weed whacker and outboard IF IF IF I didn't run them dry for a reason.  I guess the ethanol gas finally bit me and I've since seen the (all be it) dim light.  I may have just gotten off easy??

I like easy.............

[Jeremy K]

You sure do have good taste in generators .

[Lawdwaz]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

You sure do have good taste in generators .

The 2000 model was sourced second hand off Craigslist at a very good price.  The bought it as a back up AFTER the 2006 ice storm and rarely used it.  I thought about selling it to make a quick  buck but decided to keep it......

[turkeyfeathers]

See my “Stinky plane ride “ thread. That’s big engines and bad gas 

[tommyc50]

As a boat owner in salt water i am very familiar with e 10 gas it reeks havoc on engines and plastic gas tanks in storage like over winter. Its called phase separation and what that means is that the alcohol and gas separate and the alcohol being hydroscopic[ it means it attracts water from the air ] there is two theories one always leave the tank full in long storage and the other is to drain the tank empty. Both are right . Boat yards are notorious when pulling boats for winter storage to say oh you need your have your tanks empty  and they will gladly empty them for you now guess were that gas goes. always use fresh gas and if you store ANY engine for a long period use the correct stor and go or the stuff from starbright thats made for e 10 gas.As  a side note they want to introduce e15 which would be a total disaster for engines . Oh and the plastic gas tanks on older boats and tank the alcohol would melt them to a messy goo . it wound up in the engines too.

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Just google non ethanol gas stations in your area...

Ethanol is a government pushed anwer to the gas crunch and is more expensive to produce than a gallon of gas and gives worse fuel economy...

Thanks uncle Sam again,, more tax dollars wasted ... 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Bowshotmuzzleloader

[nyslowhand]

As you found out, ethanol isn't just a 2-cycle engine issue. Anything that only runs sporadically needs ethanol with Stabilt, if not non-ethanol gas w/Stabilt. I use 91 octane non-ethanol in everything from an ATV down to mowers, chainsaws and trimmers, with Stabilt added. Basically small engines that sit with gas in them for extended periods. Definitely a band-aid fix for a bigger issue... Small engine repair shops love it..!!!

[G-Man]

Yes ..carb was prolly screwed up with old gas that seperated. Happens a lot I get a lot of small engine toys I  spring and fall when people are to lazy to pull and clean carb.

[Daveboone]

I am religious about filling my gas cans strictly with non ethanol, and then using some Startron  additive in them. The ethanol gas is horrible on small engines, and for the relatively small cost of the non ethanol (usually premium) gas it is well worth it. I have used Sea Foam carb/ engine additive a number of times to rectify ethanol related sludge/ build up, I wouldn't be without a can now. Essentially you drain the tank/ carburetor, use a big syringe to fill the gas line/ carb float, put a bit of gas in the tank , a squirt in the spark plug hole and start it up, after letting it sit a few. 

I also have a Honda ef 3000, love it, worth every penny. Protect your investment and stay with the good gas. easy insurance.

[Salmon_Run]

Seafoam is the way to go, I use it every time in my small engines (2 and 4 strokes) and they all run great after sitting idle for extended periods.

[dbHunterNY]

ethanol gas and non-ethanol gas burn a lot different. if you're not mapped or designed to run partial ethanol gas then it creates problems like inefficient burn and higher moisture content and corrosion in fuel systems.  relatively newer cars are fine and mapped accordingly but carbed small engines, things that don't run long and often, or even older classic cars don't do as well.  take my fuel injected new snowmobile.  it'll fowl plugs and run like crap if in "non-ethanol mode" running reg 10% ethanol gas. put it in ethanol mode and it runs great.

[dbHunterNY]

i'm friends with an older guy that owns a small engine/chainsaw shop.  he says to run 91 octane non-ethanol in any anything you got.  so i do in anything from sled, chainsaw, tiller, to lawn mower.  before off season anything with sizable tank like mower or sled it gets run and filled with fresh non-ethanol gas with stabil. premix stuff has stabil in the oil already. smaller stuff gets run with the same and then drained. smaller amount of gas the faster it breaks down and loses octane. i've never had any problems and honestly don't take my stuff in for tune ups each season either.

[Will_C]

I have became a convert to the e-free gas. I use it, along with Sea Foam in all my small engines-generator, lawn mower, pressure washer, ATV and all 2 strokes. My buddy runs a small engine shop-I've seen carbs full of the whiteish/ yellowish gunk he has replaced for customers.

Will

[nyslowhand]

I used ethanol gas for years with numerous additives I experimented with. Always had to have small engine carb's rebuilt about every 2yrs. That's when it was suggested and I switched to 91 octane, non-ethanol w/o any additives other than Stabilt. Anyone that's gone through this is aware most shops do NOT rebuild cards now a days, they'll simply install a replacement. Which becomes a ~$100+ expense, cost of new carb plus labor with shop rate's of major service techs at ~$90/hr.

[chas0218]

On 2/18/2018 at 6:25 PM, Jeremy K said:

The yellow film that gets left behind from the corn fuel is horrendous ! The float bowls on my snowmobile need to be cleaned every year ,it's like a hard yellow shell . The stuff is garbage. Even the ethanol treatment doesn't completely solve the issue. 

That's varnish and happens with all gas ethanol or not. Actually ethanol added fuel is less likely to to turn into varnish as regular gas.

Varnish is the breakdown of gasoline and easily cleaned up with E85 or similar alcohol based solvent. My guess is that you might have had a little condensation in the tank and the water got pulled into the carb where you drained it out. Any tank will build condensation inside of an unvented container not filled all the way. Believe it or not you should add some sort of stabilizer to the fuel to trap the water particles and not allow it to condense on the sides of the container. The ethanol fuel doesn't do anything to an engine any different than standard fuel but it will eventually eat rubber gaskets and plastic float bowls just the nature of alcohol and plastic and rubber. Newer gas engines are being made to be more tolerant to the ethanol fuels not so much small engines but cars, boats, larger gas powered equipment all are usually built with ethanol safe gaskets. I know there are manufacturers of carb re-build kits that have ethanol safe gaskets. I have used a couple on some of the small engines that I have had to fix and haven't had any trouble with 10% ethanol with stabil for years. The only thing I run non ethanol in is my chainsaws and weed whackers.

[chas0218]

On 2/20/2018 at 12:13 AM, nyslowhand said:

I used ethanol gas for years with numerous additives I experimented with. Always had to have small engine carb's rebuilt about every 2yrs. That's when it was suggested and I switched to 91 octane, non-ethanol w/o any additives other than Stabilt. Anyone that's gone through this is aware most shops do NOT rebuild cards now a days, they'll simply install a replacement. Which becomes a ~$100+ expense, cost of new carb plus labor with shop rate's of major service techs at ~$90/hr.

My bet is they charge $100 and rebuild it with a $10 rebuild kit. That is what I have seen in my area. They said they recommend using stabil and non eth gas hoping the customer will do 1 of the 2.

[Jeremy K]

38 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

That's varnish and happens with all gas ethanol or not. Actually ethanol added fuel is less likely to to turn into varnish as regular gas.

Varnish is the breakdown of gasoline and easily cleaned up with E85 or similar alcohol based solvent. My guess is that you might have had a little condensation in the tank and the water got pulled into the carb where you drained it out. Any tank will build condensation inside of an unvented container not filled all the way. Believe it or not you should add some sort of stabilizer to the fuel to trap the water particles and not allow it to condense on the sides of the container. The ethanol fuel doesn't do anything to an engine any different than standard fuel but it will eventually eat rubber gaskets and plastic float bowls just the nature of alcohol and plastic and rubber. Newer gas engines are being made to be more tolerant to the ethanol fuels not so much small engines but cars, boats, larger gas powered equipment all are usually built with ethanol safe gaskets. I know there are manufacturers of carb re-build kits that have ethanol safe gaskets. I have used a couple on some of the small engines that I have had to fix and haven't had any trouble with 10% ethanol with stabil for years. The only thing I run non ethanol in is my chainsaws and weed whackers.

Ive had dirtbikes for 30 years , never had any issues with carbs looking like that from just sitting over the winter . Its that worthless cornfuel theyre pushing on us. The snowmobile is my fault for never riding it .

Edited February 23, 2018 by Jeremy K