Xbow full inclusion??

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But did most people ever truly value that stuff? Back in the day, they were using what equipment was the latest and greatest at that time.

I'm not sure, but I do know that that was the entire reason that I took up bow hunting. It certainly wasn't because it was so productive. We used to come into work Monday morning and all gather around and talk about the doe that we saw, or maybe a well used trail that we found. And my gosh if somebody got lucky enough to actually get a shot that was the highlight of the conversation for the whole day.

As far as equipment, I was using whatever I could afford, and at that time it wasn't much. It certainly wasn't state of the art materials. You were doing good if you had a matched set of Port Orford cedar arrows. Yeah, I think tradition and challenge was perhaps the only attraction to bowhunting.

[G-Man]

It simply comes down to this... someone may buy one and kill my deer!! Specifically my BUCK!! Crossbow are archery equipment they use energy stored in a limb and transferred through a string to an arrow. 

I re remember the fight to allow compound over traditional, then finger tabs vs release, then let off over 65 for book entry.. oh dont forget the fiber optic pin debate.. all those chan gf e have allowed more bow hunters in the woods. 

I will state emphatically unless you are a traditional archer and have always been one you have no right to complain or try and ban crossbows.. 

As for the bow dissapearing.. idk my personal experiance was to make  it harder on myself every year. Gone from shotgun to Using black powder pistols , compound to traditional to learning to Knapp to make my own arrow heads.. heck I'd love to try an atlatl or hand thrown spear. Every individual learns and evolves as a hunter or game manager in their own time and at their own level. Everyone that enters archery season with a crossbow is not going to stay with a crossbow forever.. some are looking to extend their archery hunt as age and physical ability have taken the compound or long bow from them.. some will be just starting and will want more of a challange as success comes over they years..  I welcome it into all of archery as I can see the big picture!!

[Jeremy K]

15 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But did most people ever truly value that stuff? Back in the day, they were using what equipment was the latest and greatest at that time.

I've listened to numerous podcast that actually go into this rather deeply . A lot of people with PhDs are saying the reason we have so many people on antidepressants these days is because we have for the most part eliminated the physical and mental struggles that the human race has evolved in to dealing with. Humans had a very rough life for a vast majority of our exhistance ,probably 99.99 percent of the human existence has dealt with major physical and mental struggles ,just recently ,we have evolved into a race that no longer has to struggle the way DNA has been programmed over many generations . So maybe it's not a bad thing if we don't always talk the easy road.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Crossbows don't belong during archery season! And that's all I'm going to say! Every single person on here knows why! 

Nah I guess every single person does not. But I would be ok with the Xbow being it's own weapon with its own tags. If it stays in the same dates as it does now so much the better.


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[G-Man]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'm not sure, but I do know that that was the entire reason that I took up bow hunting. It certainly wasn't because it was so productive. We used to come into work Monday morning and all gather around and talk about the doe that we saw, or maybe a well used trail that we found. And my gosh if somebody got lucky enough to actually get a shot that was the highlight of the conversation for the whole day.

As far as equipment, I was using whatever I could afford, and at that time it wasn't much. It certainly wasn't state of the art materials. You were doing good if you had a matched set of Port Orford cedar arrows. Yeah, I think tradition and challenge was perhaps the only attraction to bowhunting.

Yet that attraction is still there and develops as one has success.  Making it harder on yourself is a way for many sportsman to connect. And I believe many who take up a crossbow to start hunting will yearn for a challange and traditional equipment will still be made and sold and used..  

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, G-Man said:

It simply comes down to this... someone may buy one and kill my deer!! Specifically my BUCK!! Crossbow are archery equipment they use energy stored in a limb and transferred through a string to an arrow. 

I re remember the fight to allow compound over traditional, then finger tabs vs release, then let off over 65 for book entry.. oh dont forget the fiber optic pin debate.. all those chan gf e have allowed more bow hunters in the woods. 

I will state emphatically unless you are a traditional archer and have always been one you have no right to complain or try and ban crossbows.. 

As for the bow dissapearing.. idk my personal experiance was to make  it harder on myself every year. Gone from shotgun to Using black powder pistols , compound to traditional to learning to Knapp to make my own arrow heads.. heck I'd love to try an atlatl or hand thrown spear. Every individual learns and evolves as a hunter or game manager in their own time and at their own level. Everyone that enters archery season with a crossbow is not going to stay with a crossbow forever.. some are looking to extend their archery hunt as age and physical ability have taken the compound or long bow from them.. some will be just starting and will want more of a challange as success comes over they years..  I welcome it into all of archery as I can see the big picture!!

As I said, the evolution of bow season is a long list of situations where hunters have always been looking for that magic bow, gadget and go-faster that would replace actual effort and time afield and a need to actually master a difficult weapon. The compound was the first major departure from what the season was initially created for. It was the precedent that sent us all on headlong fling toward "success at any cost". And it's not exactly slowing down. It does make a person pause and ask "is there really an end to it all?" Or is the natural end simply the blurring of special seasons until there aren't any.

[G-Man]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

As I said, the evolution of bow season is a long list of situations where hunters have always been looking for that magic bow, gadget and go-faster that would replace actual effort and time afield and a need to actually master a difficult weapon. The compound was the first major departure from what the season was initially created for. It was the precedent that sent us all on headlong fling toward "success at any cost". And it's not exactly slowing down. It does make a person pause and ask "is there really an end to it all?" Or is the natural end simply the blurring of special seasons until there aren't any.

The problem is if we were to have a traditional bow only season say the week of the rut. Where only traditional bow was allowed ,because the dec is not a game department  the enforcement of this season is un do able.. so we may as well allow all archery equipment in all of archery season. It's the same mentality as legalizing marijuana.. cant stop it may as well regulate and make $$ off it

[WNYBuckHunter]

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'm not sure, but I do know that that was the entire reason that I took up bow hunting. It certainly wasn't because it was so productive. We used to come into work Monday morning and all gather around and talk about the doe that we saw, or maybe a well used trail that we found. And my gosh if somebody got lucky enough to actually get a shot that was the highlight of the conversation for the whole day.

As far as equipment, I was using whatever I could afford, and at that time it wasn't much. It certainly wasn't state of the art materials. You were doing good if you had a matched set of Port Orford cedar arrows. Yeah, I think tradition and challenge was perhaps the only attraction to bowhunting.

For me, it was to get more time in the woods.

When I started out I had low end equipment. Anyone that knows me, knows that Im a bit of a gear junkie though, so eventually I upgraded to some pretty good stuff. Not super high end though, Im too cheap for that haha.

[nodeerhere]

Draw the bow! Sharpen ur skills! Give that deer a chance to use its senses! And if u are able to harvest it at 20 yrds or closer with having to draw! With ur heart pumping out of ur chest and ur legs shaking then u are a skilled hunter! Anybody can pick up a gun/crossbow and kill a deer by looking through a scope and squeeze the trigger 

[Steuben Jerry]

13 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

Draw the bow! Sharpen ur skills! Give that deer a chance to use its senses! And if u are able to harvest it at 20 yrds or closer with having to draw! With ur heart pumping out of ur chest and ur legs shaking then u are a skilled hunter!

Neighbor down the road is 88 and hunted with a crossbow this year. He didn't shoot one, but trudged out there a few days of the two week season. He used to be a big bowhunter, but hasn't bowhunted in several years. I'm not about to tell him to man up.

[pitweiler]

I say get rid of the Bowhunting Course. There are only a handful of states/provinces that require it. I’m going to take it this coming year, but I don’t see why it couldn’t just be an online thing. Especially since you don’t need it for crossbow. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by pitweiler

[CapDistPatriot]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:11 PM, erussell said:

I hardly heard a shot all season. Deer are walking around like the season isnt even going on.

Where are you hunting? All of my deer are suffering from a serious case of PTSD

[Hunter007]

3 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

You just proved Biz right...

Close enough

 

That's why I said  "something like "

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Storm914

[chrisw]

So just so you know, the vast majority of private land that I hunt is just as pressured, or even more pressured than any state land I have ever hunted during bow season. I have alot of experience hunting multiple tracts of state land, during all seasons. We have alot of guys that have permission to hunt the farms that I do. We have small game hunters, guys that run coon hounds at night, the landowners walking the property and riding horses, multiple groups of hunters that dont stick to any game plan, farmers working the fields, etc. Most private land that I have had experience with, isnt all that some people make it out to be. If you arent a good hunter on these places, you arent going to be successful. I usually get a few cracks at decent bucks each year, but Im in the minority at those farms. Most of the guys dont see them, and if they do, its from a long ways off. Why? Because I put the time and work in. Does that make me any better than anyone else hunting there? Nope. Do I get pissed if one of the other guys ends up shooting a buck that Im after? Nope. Has that happened? Multiple times, and most of those have not been due to those guys putting in the time and work that I do. We also have people that are new to hunting, and make lots of mistakes, and previous gun only people that are now toting crossbows around the place. Ive seen two different things happen so far with crossbows, either people new to archery hunting improve their skills and become better hunters, or they say the hell with it and go back to gun only because of their lack of success.
As far as kids go, thats not at all what I said. Go back and re-read it. Your "tough" sentiment is that kind that has been portrayed for decades, and where has it gotten us? Hunter numbers are in decline, and have been for some time now. Do you honestly think that putting a crossbow in someones hands is going to guarantee them a deer? You really think that the successful crossbow folks work any less at getting within 40 yards of a deer than you do? If you do, you are being ignorant about it. Do you have kids? If so, how old are they, and do they hunt?

So if you're following the same logic as in your last paragraph, then you'd be alright with someone shooting a deer with a gun at 40yds during archery season because they worked just as hard as you did to get a deer in range? Stop skirting around the fact that the crossbow is waay easier to kill deer with! You cannot refute that! Why else would people be picking them up left and right!? No I do not have children but I have plenty of niece's and nephews. This whole coddling kids so they have instant success is the reason why so many people today don't want to work for anything, they feel entitled. It just reinforces that you don't have to put in the time and effort if you want, there's an easier way around it. I went through the learning struggles the same as most learning to bowhunt. Noone in my family bowhunted so I was on my own. I picked it up from magazines and making mistakes and I'm a lot better bowhunter for it today. If I had a child I wouldn't think any different, pick up a bow, work hard, put in practice and it'll happen. The adult world is not going to coddle them and make it easy so why raise them that way? So to give one final thing before I bow out of this conversation for good... No, I don't think the person that shoots a deer with a crossbow worked as hard as I did to kill the same deer in the same scenario. Hopefully you didn't take anything personal here, it's a hot topic and I'm not in any way berating how you raise your children etc...

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[johnplav]

I'm fine with the way it is now.  Gives plenty of options, but maintains a unique period of time at the beginning of the season for the most challenging weapon (archery).  A crossbow falls in between a bow and a gun, and the seasons reflect that.  I don't trust NY state with any of our money, so I could care less about ways to provide them with more of it.  

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

It simply comes down to this... someone may buy one and kill my deer!! Specifically my BUCK!! Crossbow are archery equipment they use energy stored in a limb and transferred through a string to an arrow. 

I re remember the fight to allow compound over traditional, then finger tabs vs release, then let off over 65 for book entry.. oh dont forget the fiber optic pin debate.. all those chan gf e have allowed more bow hunters in the woods. 

I will state emphatically unless you are a traditional archer and have always been one you have no right to complain or try and ban crossbows.. 

As for the bow dissapearing.. idk my personal experiance was to make  it harder on myself every year. Gone from shotgun to Using black powder pistols , compound to traditional to learning to Knapp to make my own arrow heads.. heck I'd love to try an atlatl or hand thrown spear. Every individual learns and evolves as a hunter or game manager in their own time and at their own level. Everyone that enters archery season with a crossbow is not going to stay with a crossbow forever.. some are looking to extend their archery hunt as age and physical ability have taken the compound or long bow from them.. some will be just starting and will want more of a challange as success comes over they years..  I welcome it into all of archery as I can see the big picture!!

Yea because archery hunting is not a Olympic sport .

It's really always been more about hunting then archery  to most people .

If people really wanted to just do pure archery they would just go and do 3d courses. 

Most guys buying tags  buy them to hunt .

If you told them you could get a extra tag  to hunt with brick they would buy that one to .  I  see no  problem with crossbows at all just have to make sure gun guys get there fun in to which most hunters probably value that the most

The way it is now ok by me .

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Storm914

[WNYBuckHunter]

50 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

Draw the bow! Sharpen ur skills! Give that deer a chance to use its senses! And if u are able to harvest it at 20 yrds or closer with having to draw! With ur heart pumping out of ur chest and ur legs shaking then u are a skilled hunter! Anybody can pick up a gun/crossbow and kill a deer by looking through a scope and squeeze the trigger 

I hunt with both, have killed good bucks with both. I have shot deer from 5 to 40 yards with my vertical bow, 15 to 30 yards with the crossbow. If you think crossbow hunting is much different from bow hunting, then you have no idea what you are talking about. The only difference while you are hunting is not having to draw with the deer there. You still have to get the crossbow up and on target without the deer seeing you while its within 40 yards though. Its not some magically easy weapon to hunt with, and its nowhere close to gun hunting.

[Dinsdale]

1 minute ago, johnplav said:

  I don't trust NY state with any of our money, so I could care less about ways to provide them with more of it.  

THIS !

 

[Buckmaster7600]

I hunt with both, have killed good bucks with both. I have shot deer from 5 to 40 yards with my vertical bow, 15 to 30 yards with the crossbow. If you think crossbow hunting is much different from bow hunting, then you have no idea what you are talking about. The only difference while you are hunting is not having to draw with the deer there. You still have to get the crossbow up and on target without the deer seeing you while its within 40 yards though. Its not some magically easy weapon to hunt with, and its nowhere close to gun hunting.

I’ve been hunting with an Xbow since 2005 killed over 30 deer with it and I completely disagree with you. It’s impossible to put a percentage of how much easier it is to kill a deer with an Xbow than a vert bow but it is, A LOT! I’m not saying that Xbows are a guarantee and they’re obviously not a gun but inside of 50yds I’m just as confident with an Xbow as I am with a rifle from a stand. Inside of 50yds from a stand I really can’t think of a scenario where I would shoot with a gun that I wouldn’t with a Xbow. Excluding a running shot, but most wouldn’t take them with a gun either.

If full inclusion comes in fine it won’t end my life but I don’t/won’t support it. There are many other things that should be way higher priority in the state. If NY gave a shit about revenue from hunting licenses they wouldn’t have given the deals they did on lifetime licenses a few years back. I got mine when I was 16 for I think 550$ for a super sportsman. That’s was 15 years ago. So the states lost over 1000$ from me alone. If I live to be 80 that’s 6K$ from me alone in lost revenue. I have no idea how many lifetime licenses were/are sold but it’s a terrible deal for the state. Now I’m sure the plan was to put the money in some kind of a trust but I guarantee the money has been long gone and used for some other bullshit most likely with nothing to do with conservation.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

15 minutes ago, chrisw said:

So if you're following the same logic as in your last paragraph, then you'd be alright with someone shooting a deer with a gun at 40yds during archery season because they worked just as hard as you did to get a deer in range? Stop skirting around the fact that the crossbow is waay easier to kill deer with! You cannot refute that! Why else would people be picking them up left and right!? No I do not have children but I have plenty of niece's and nephews. This whole coddling kids so they have instant success is the reason why so many people today don't want to work for anything, they feel entitled. It just reinforces that you don't have to put in the time and effort if you want, there's an easier way around it. I went through the learning struggles the same as most learning to bowhunt. Noone in my family bowhunted so I was on my own. I picked it up from magazines and making mistakes and I'm a lot better bowhunter for it today. If I had a child I wouldn't think any different, pick up a bow, work hard, put in practice and it'll happen. The adult world is not going to coddle them and make it easy so why raise them that way? So to give one final thing before I bow out of this conversation for good... No, I don't think the person that shoots a deer with a crossbow worked as hard as I did to kill the same deer in the same scenario. Hopefully you didn't take anything personal here, it's a hot topic and I'm not in any way berating how you raise your children etc...

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No, Im not fine with that, I want to see all archery equipment open in archery season. Thats it. No firearms, no airguns, etc. I am not skirting around anything, crossbows are only easier to be proficient with, in a hunting scenario, its not much different than a vertical bow. I hunt with both, have killed with both, so I can speak from experience. People pick them up for many reasons, one of which being what I just said, they are easier to learn to use.

Again, Im not talking about coddling kids, Im saying that it makes no sense to force them to use the hardest weapon first. You know the old saying that you have to walk before you run? Same thing. Id be willing to bet that when you do have kids, youll change your tune. Only then will you understand how many things kids have going on, and how easy it is for them to lose focus on something that they do not get a taste of success with. My daughter has been interested in hunting since she was very small, started going with me when she is 4. Shes been shooting bows since she was 7, and is a pretty darn good shot. She has been, and still is, nervous about wounding a deer with her bow. She knows what my experiences have been bow hunting, and knows that there have been a few times where I wounded a deer for various reasons. She would feel awful and most likely give up hunting all together if that was her first experience. In the 3 years that she has been bow hunting, shes had 1 shot at a deer, and she shot under it. Her nervousness about wounding one keeps her interest lower, and makes her not want to go as often as she would if she had more confidence in not wounding one. Now I know, she would have more confidence if she got out there more, and I try to get her to without pushing her into it. I will say that this year she has been much more willing to go out with her rifle than with her bow, because she has way more confidence with it. She was also more willing to go out with the crossbow than she was with her bow, again, because of more confidence. My point is, that even a kid that has the drive to hunt, has grown up with it and all of that, still could lose interest in the sport because they are forced into the hardest method first.

Speaking from experience with both weapons, you are flat out wrong about the amount of effort it takes to get within 40 yards of a deer. What weapon you are carrying means nothing in that regard.

Nothing is being taken personally, were just having a discussion that we dont agree with each other on. Its all good.

[WNYBuckHunter]

18 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’ve been hunting with an Xbow since 2005 killed over 30 deer with it and I completely disagree with you. It’s impossible to put a percentage of how much easier it is to kill a deer with an Xbow than a vert bow but it is, A LOT! I’m not saying that Xbows are a guarantee and they’re obviously not a gun but inside of 50yds I’m just as confident with an Xbow as I am with a rifle from a stand. Inside of 50yds from a stand I really can’t think of a scenario where I would shoot with a gun that I wouldn’t with a Xbow. Excluding a running shot, but most wouldn’t take them with a gun either.

If full inclusion comes in fine it won’t end my life but I don’t/won’t support it. There are many other things that should be way higher priority in the state. If NY gave a shit about revenue from hunting licenses they wouldn’t have given the deals they did on lifetime licenses a few years back. I got mine when I was 16 for I think 550$ for a super sportsman. That’s was 15 years ago. So the states lost over 1000$ from me alone. If I live to be 80 that’s 6K$ from me alone in lost revenue. I have no idea how many lifetime licenses were/are sold but it’s a terrible deal for the state. Now I’m sure the plan was to put the money in some kind of a trust but I guarantee the money has been long gone and used for some other bullshit most likely with nothing to do with conservation.


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I am just as confident inside of 45 yards with my compound bow as I am with my crossbow. I actually practice at longer distances with my compound than I do with my crossbow. There are plenty of shots That I would take with a gun at any distance that I wouldnt with any archery equipment, because they kill in 2 completely different ways, but maybe thats just me.

[Nomad]

1 hour ago, nodeerhere said:

Draw the bow! Sharpen ur skills! Give that deer a chance to use its senses! And if u are able to harvest it at 20 yrds or closer with having to draw! With ur heart pumping out of ur chest and ur legs shaking then u are a skilled hunter! Anybody can pick up a gun/crossbow and kill a deer by looking through a scope and squeeze the trigger 

Hum, my first year bowhuning was 1,988 Golden Eagle bow, finger tab, two blade ,feathers , little flipper rest ( look like a piece of paper clip ) . Killed a buck at 8 yards . Since then killed many , only years I didn’t was because passed up many waiting for “ the right one “ which never showed .

My kills average under 20 yards  . Never once busted “ drawing “ which is very little movement ,one arm moving straight back what 15 inches ?

Where guys get busted is standing up ,reaching for the bow,  turning back ,raising the bow , then say they were busted “ drawing .”  All those other movements are required of the xbow as well, and after using one two years now, I’d say they require more exaggerated  movements due to the size and weight of the darn things . Oh and I didn’t kill a deer with it yet , by choice .

Id gladly go back to a compound , if I can one day draw one again  , but I’m grateful for the two weeks ( so far ) of crossbow .

 

[johnplav]

 

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I hunt with both, have killed good bucks with both. I have shot deer from 5 to 40 yards with my vertical bow, 15 to 30 yards with the crossbow. If you think crossbow hunting is much different from bow hunting, then you have no idea what you are talking about. The only difference while you are hunting is not having to draw with the deer there. You still have to get the crossbow up and on target without the deer seeing you while its within 40 yards though. Its not some magically easy weapon to hunt with, and its nowhere close to gun hunting.

You see no difference because you are very proficient with your bow.  I am less proficient and I think that my crossbow edges out my bow in terms of accuracy, range, etc.  A few seasons ago I set my father up in a stand with my crossbow (having only shot it once before) and he made a perfect shot on a doe.  I doubt he could pull back my bow, nevermind effectively kill a deer his second time shooting it.  When you take the hunter's skill/proficiency out of the equation, a crossbow is more effective than an equally priced bow.  Full disclosure: I hunt with both bow and crossbow and I love them both equally.  That said, I feel a bit more pride in deer killed with the compound, because in my opinion, and in my hands, I feel it is more challenging. 

[Five Seasons]

4 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

So your not happy sharing the woods during bow with the Xbow hunters and you would be pissed if they continue to get the best time to hunt? Sounds like you may want to get 1000acres like some of us and just hunt any way you want during whatever season. And the point of the hunters numbers is that post shows how many in the state that have been lost over the last couple years and even after the big drop last year they were bitching that the numbers were down already and we were only half way thru the season? Cash is Cash regardless where it comes from in their eyes. They will do something to counter the dropping hunter numbers and the cash they took with them. That's not to even talk about the numbers of deer now not getting taken.


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so confused. you proposed an xbow only season right during the rut. something no other state does either btw. Left alone the way it is today, both archers and crossbow hunters have access to the rut. you're the one looking for revenue, not me.

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Yeah that just what the guys that whine about other hunters in the woods ruining their hunting need. That way you guys can play in your own little dream world while the rest of the real hunters and sportsmen that really care about the future work on saving a failing sport. Really it's not that hard to go in and kill the baby bucks with any implement regardless of how many hunters are in the woods.


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i never once whined about other hunters in the woods. read my very first post.