should I cut my timber

[Bigfoot 327]

Wife and I are fed up with NY. We have a one year plan to sell our place and relocate South. I have always tried to better the property wanting to leave it better than when I obtained it. Now, not so much. I have about 30 acres of mature hardwood timber (mostly sugar maple) and maple that could benefit from more years growth. Do I try to sell the property with the value of the hardwood folded into the sale price or do I take the money and run?

[moog5050]

Is it only vacant land or your home also?  I would be hesitant if it was only vacant land, but with a home, I would consult with a local broker.  Probably makes sense to consult either way.  I suspect you will make more money by selling timber and then property.

[Moho81]

My personal opinion for the best bang for your buck. Sell the timber then sell the property. I don’t think you could sell the property with a perceived value of timber.

Of course this may require you to be in NYS for longer than a year.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

I would sell the timber first, but with your 1 year timeline it may be difficult to get done before you will be showing the property.  Any logger that will knock out 30 acres that quickly is going to leave a mess, and any that wont leave a mess probably cant get it done that quickly.

[GreeneHunter]

I've wanted to sell the lumber from the land I hunt but have no idea whom I could call to get an estimate on its value .... any recommendations ? If for no other reason to help with the Taxes and promote fresh growth !

Location = Greene County NY

Edited March 4, 2019 by GreeneHunter

[Steuben Jerry]

3 minutes ago, GreeneHunter said:

I've wanted to sell the lumber from the land I hunt but have no idea whom I could call to get an estimate on its value .... any recommendations ? If for no other reason to help with the Taxes and promote fresh growth !

Location = Greene County NY

You'll need a consulting forester. Don't know of any except one of my neighbors who is retired for several years. A consulting forester will inventory your timber and solicit bids from loggers. He'll get a commission or flat fee on the sale for doing that.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Steuben Jerry

[tuckersdaddy]

Property values suck in upstate... sale of the timber is cash in hand... you may get more for the property with the timber on it but the question is will you get as much or more than if you sell the timber and property separately.....

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[Bigfoot 327]

I've used FORECON in the past for a minor harvest and a major timber stand improvement. They have NY offices in Falconer and Cortland as well as PA and West VA. I was pleased with the services that they provided.  My property includes a house and about 39 acres total. Instead of  selling the timber I may simply have the option of dividing the property and selling the main woods to sawmill that expressed an interest in buying the property some years ago.

[virgil]

Sounds like a question for your real estate agent.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am with Virgil on this, i'd ask your agent. But will add one thing. In my mind there is only one way you know you are gettign 100% consideration on the timber and that is to have the timber money in hand. 

[Steuben Jerry]

6 minutes ago, virgil said:

Sounds like a question for your real estate agent.

Be aware that a real estate agent may not care for the timber sale first scenario as by selling off an asset prior to listing, it will reduce his potential commission.

[NFA-ADK]

23 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Be aware that a real estate agent may not care for the timber sale first scenario as by selling off an asset prior to listing, it will reduce his potential commission.

It will also reduce the interpretation of value on the property.  (It's makes for a good sales pitch...)  You have all this property AND you can sell the wood.

[Moho81]

After dealing with several very incompetent real estate agents I wouldn’t trust ones opinion unless I knew them personally. Most are only good for opening up a door.

Sorry to any real estate agents that have read this. It’s a very personal deep seeded issue I have that requires extensive therapy sessions to overcome.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

41 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

It will also reduce the interpretation of value on the property.  (It's makes for a good sales pitch...)  You have all this property AND you can sell the wood.

You think you would get dollar for dollar value of that standing timber in an offer?  I think if he had a bid on the timber he wouldn't get dollar for dollar. IMO. Personally I'd take the money and run. I'd ask a professional but I'd probably still do it. Kind of a  "bird in the hand is worth two in the back seat of a Buick"....or something like that. 

[stubborn1VT]

I would have it logged, but unless the property is left in very good condition it might severely decrease the land value.  The sub division idea might take a bit more leg work, but sounds worth it to me.  JMO.

Edited March 4, 2019 by stubborn1VT

[left field]

I'm going to come out on the other side of this.

My property was devastated by someone taking the money and running prior to a sale (a few years before me) and I have a lot of work ahead to get back to a healthy woods. In a cut-and-run they tend to take everything out unlike the careful cutting in a long-term forestry management plan.

Get a quote - it may be worth less than you think. Present your potential buyers with the plan. That could be worth something to someone.

Good luck.

[Lawdwaz]

5 hours ago, Bigfoot 327 said:

Wife and I are fed up with NY. We have a one year plan to sell our place and relocate South.

No, DON'T log it.  If you're going to sell in a year (no BS, really sell it) then don't monkey with it.  I'd get a value from a forester and add that to the asking price.

[Bigfoot 327]

2 hours ago, left field said:

I'm going to come out on the other side of this.

My property was devastated by someone taking the money and running prior to a sale (a few years before me) and I have a lot of work ahead to get back to a healthy woods. In a cut-and-run they tend to take everything out unlike the careful cutting in a long-term forestry management plan. 

Get a quote - it may be worth less than you think. Present your potential buyers with the plan. That could be worth something to someone.

Good luck.

I spoke with a forester (since retired) in 2005 when my mother had some timber harvested. I asked him how many of his customers manage their woodlands for a sustainable harvest and how many cut and run. He said he did whatever the customer wanted.  Anyway, he said that it was about 50/50. He related that a corporation bought 300 acres and told him to "cut anything you can sell".  He also told me that he often saw situations where Mom and Dad would eventually die and leave their farm to their children- who often had moved away. The kids wanted nothing to do with the farm except sell whatever...….you get the idea.

The vast majority of NY woodlands have no forestry plan nor are they in any way managed. None of the properties that surround mine have a management plan.

The fellow that owns the property to my South is in his late seventies. He has periodically taken timber off of that land (and his father before him) since before I was born. However, a couple years ago he had everything saleable harvested. He told me, that he wouldn't live to see another harvest anyway. There won't be timber to harvest on that property for probably 40 years. 

If I leave my woods in ruin it might matter a lot to a future owner, or it might not matter at all.  I guess what is important is how I feel about it...…..

[Dom]

I would try and find someone to rent the property/house This could work in your favor and you would still have the opt to hunt the land.That is my Idea also the rental would cover the taxes/Maintaining of the prop.

[left field]

33 minutes ago, Bigfoot 327 said:

If I leave my woods in ruin it might matter a lot to a future owner, or it might not matter at all.  I guess what is important is how I feel about it...…..

I get it. And you're right.

Good luck.

[GreeneHunter]

I am not going to sell my property I just want to get some cash out of the lumber . Hopefully I'm going to leave it / give it to the son or grandson before I become a drooling idiot ! (if I'm not already)

[Bigfoot 327]

GreeneHunter:  sounds like you're in it for the long haul. Seriously consider Steuben Jerry's advice. With proper management your forest will be healthier, your trees will grow faster, and you will probably be able to harvest (some) every 15 years or so.

[Bigfoot 327]

I want to thank everyone who added their two cents to this discussion. I obviously have a lot to think about. I'm in Florida "suffering" in the 80 degree temps, so nothing is going to happen on this until April anyway!

[Steuben Jerry]

Bigfoot, don't want to derail the thread, but as my wife and I are strongly considering moving south in 2-5 years, I'm wondering if there was a triggering event to get you fed up with NY? Or just a general accumulation of NYBS?

[G-Man]

16 hours ago, left field said:

I'm going to come out on the other side of this.

My property was devastated by someone taking the money and running prior to a sale (a few years before me) and I have a lot of work ahead to get back to a healthy woods. In a cut-and-run they tend to take everything out unlike the careful cutting in a long-term forestry management plan.

Get a quote - it may be worth less than you think. Present your potential buyers with the plan. That could be worth something to someone.

Good luck.

A clear cut is not devastation. It's a good thing most New York woods are hy graded.. clear cut allows diversity to return. It may not look nice to you but to game its is a housing and food bonanza