Any HVAC experts here?

[moog5050]

Woke up and house was at 66 - set to 72.   Changed batteries in thermostat (which was still on), cleaned flame sensor and restarted furnace.   Noticed that one of the igniter wires was resting against the tube that carries gas to furnace and when the igniter was trying to start the furnace there was a spark between the tube and wire.   The gas didn’t light right away but did after 10 seconds and blew itself out.  Like when you have too much gas on running before starting a grill.  Checked sparking wire and it didn’t look frayed.    Pushed it away from tube and furnace is running again.  Seems odd to me.  Anyone that knows hvac have thoughts?   Not sure if I need to have it checked out or just keep wire away from gas tube.   

[grampy]

Always best to call a professional to come check out stuff like that Brian. And while they are there, they can do a thorough inspection and cleaning. We do this every other year.

[Caveman]

I'm not an HVAC expert, but my personal philosophy is to have an expert out any time there are issues combining gas and electricity.  It's not worth blowing up my house to save a $200 service call.  

[moog5050]

11 minutes ago, grampy said:

Always best to call a professional to come check out stuff like that Brian. And while they are there, they can do a thorough inspection and cleaning. We do this every other year.

Not sure what it is with this Rheem.   Seems like once a year I have a minor problem where it shuts off.  I then fiddle with it a bit, get it running and it’s problem free the rest of the season.  House is back up to 69 and it seems to be cycling fine.   I will probably just let it go for now, maybe zip tie the wires away from the gas tube.  
Much like hunting, season after season I learn just a little more about furnace repair and luckily it works out.   Lol

[moog5050]

3 minutes ago, Caveman said:

I'm not an HVAC expert, but my personal philosophy is to have an expert out any time there are issues combining gas and electricity.  It's not worth blowing up my house to save a $200 service call.  

Gas shuts off if it doesn’t light in a short period and flame sensor also shuts it off if gas doesn’t stay lit.  It’s a safety feature on all furnaces I think - at least this one.  I am not worried about a big boom or I would call Bocacino.  Might call em anyway just to get their thoughts.  

[Nomad]

Just an FYI . I made an appointment for cleaning and inspection I think in Oct. , it was done last week . Being their busy season , I don’t see anyone getting a routine C/I anytime soon  .

Id leave it as is , and talk you someone who knows .

Ours is some 80’s monster that every tech says will out  last us ,  not energy efficient but as reliable as a stone axe .

Edited December 26, 2020 by Nomad

[Moho81]

Not an expert at all but your description of what the gas did sounded like a thermocouple issue.


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[Nytracker]

I'm not an hvac guy but I do work on some belt heaters and salamander heaters and such at work . The loose wire could be a thermacouple. It reads temp on the pilot or igniter.  When up to proper temp it tells burner to ignite. They can become fouled  and not let burner ignite.  A dirty burner may not burn properly causing it to shut down.  I will not work on my home furnace as I'm not an expert. I gladly pay for peace of mind. 

[fasteddie]

We have a contract for our furnace and AC with Isaac . They come once a year and service both . It's worth the money not to have to mess around with either one . Hope your fix works Moog . 

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

Not sure what it is with this Rheem.   Seems like once a year I have a minor problem where it shuts off.  I then fiddle with it a bit, get it running and it’s problem free the rest of the season.  House is back up to 69 and it seems to be cycling fine.   I will probably just let it go for now, maybe zip tie the wires away from the gas tube.  
Much like hunting, season after season I learn just a little more about furnace repair and luckily it works out.   Lol

It sounds like you found the problem, and I think the zip tie would be a good idea to help prevent a repeat.

We have had furnaces issues thru the years, but seem to be past that now.  Our main furnace was an inefficient 1980 model, that started having ignition issues around 2010.  It had a pilot, that was always going out, especially when it was real windy outside.

We nearly doubled the size of the house, and added a second high-efficiency, electronic-ignition furnace, for the addition, in 2001.  That one has always been completely trouble free. We had the old, 1980 one replaced with a similar new one, in 2014, and have had no trouble since then.

The real key to making NY winters enjoyable, when it comes to home- heating, is a wood stove.  Neither of our modern furnaces have to work very hard when it is real cold out.

We added a woodstove in 2002, and that heats the whole house very well, as long as the outside temperature is below the mid 30's.  It gets too hot inside, using it when it is warmer than that out. 

Thanks to the woodstove, the colder it gets, the lower our gas bill.  Nothing feels better, when it is below zero outside, than sitting in front of a wood fire with a cold beer.

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by wolc123

[Jeremy K]

35 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

It sounds like you found the problem, and I think the zip tie would be a good idea to help prevent a repeat.

We have had furnaces issues thru the years, but seem to be past that now.  Our main furnace was an inefficient 1980 model, that started having ignition issues around 2010.  It had a pilot, that was always going out, especially when it was real windy outside.

We nearly doubled the size of the house, and added a second high-efficiency, electronic-ignition furnace, for the addition, in 2001.  That one has always been completely trouble free. We had the old, 1980 one replaced with a similar new one, in 2014, and have had no trouble since then.

The real key to making NY winters enjoyable, when it comes to home- heating, is a wood stove.  Neither of our modern furnaces have to work very hard when it is real cold out.

We added a woodstove in 2002, and that heats the whole house very well, as long as the outside temperature is below the mid 30's.  It gets too hot inside, using it when it is warmer than that out. 

Thanks to the woodstove, the colder it gets, the lower our gas bill.  Nothing feels better, when it is below zero outside, than sitting in front of a wood fire with a cold beer.

 

You ever get headaches from the wood stove ? My buddy heats with wood and it gives me nasty sinus headaches if i spend too much time inside. 

[GreeneHunter]

After a couple of repeated power outages we're heading to Lowes for a Kerosene Heated for our Garage ! We have a Generator ( on wheels ) that I hookup for the main house but need to keep the pipes from freezing in the Garage which has an apartment above !

[New York Hillbilly]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

Woke up and house was at 66 - set to 72.   Changed batteries in thermostat (which was still on), cleaned flame sensor and restarted furnace.   Noticed that one of the igniter wires was resting against the tube that carries gas to furnace and when the igniter was trying to start the furnace there was a spark between the tube and wire.   The gas didn’t light right away but did after 10 seconds and blew itself out.  Like when you have too much gas on running before starting a grill.  Checked sparking wire and it didn’t look frayed.    Pushed it away from tube and furnace is running again.  Seems odd to me.  Anyone that knows hvac have thoughts?   Not sure if I need to have it checked out or just keep wire away from gas tube.   

When it come to heating systems I think it best to call an expert to take a look when in doubt. It has been decades since I worked on anyone else's HVAC so I do not hold myself out as an expert anymore to anyone. 

That said though this is basically how this goes, and I'm not sure what you think you saw sparking other than the igniter lighting the pilot. I can't see how a wire against anything metal can spark if the insulation on the wire is intact. 

Remember....Safety always first! So if you have more issues calling an active professional would be best. 

1. Thermostat calls for heat. 2. Gas valve lest gas enough  for pilot open and igniter lights pilot. 3. If pilot lights, it then heats up the thermocouple and generates small amount of current that then tells gas valve  open for main flame. 4. If pilot does not light after set time (seconds) the main valve does not open and furnace goes off for safety. 5. If pilot does light but then shuts down, it can be thermocouple is either failing/failed, or sometimes if not in proper position with pilot flame to heat it up to generate the voltage required to tell main valve to open and shuts off on safety. 

[Big Indian]

@moog5050, good luck. IDK where u live, but have the pros look into it, my buddy is an HVAC guy and says same. also have my bro’s at the FD come and check for gas leak too, we’re always happy to help 

[First-light]

squirrelwhisperer was the guy who helped my out. 30 years in the business PM him. 

[meateater]

Very common your thermal lead aka themo -coupling is bad the sparker lights the pilot so you don’t have a standing pilot only when the boiler/ furnace is on

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

You ever get headaches from the wood stove ? My buddy heats with wood and it gives me nasty sinus headaches if i spend too much time inside. 

Rarely, but when I feel a sinus headache coming on (usually at night), the prompt use of a nettie pot completely eliminates it.  That happens to me once or twice a month, and is no more frequent during wood heating season.  

Oddly enough, one hit me last night, which sucked because I accidentally left my nettie pot up at the in-laws Adirondack retirement home when I was up there a couple weeks ago.  It took me a few minutes to fabricate one from an old cider jug, but it worked great and headache is gone, just like with the store bought one.

We do have a big humidifier that uses about 2 gallons of water a day, when the woodstove is going.  It uses less than a quart a day, when only the two forced air furnaces are running.   Does your buddy have a humidifier ?

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by wolc123

[moog5050]

Back up to temp and running well.   If it cuts out again, I will call them.   Thanks all

[Jeremy K]

58 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Rarely, but when I feel a sinus headache coming on (usually at night), the prompt use of a nettie pot completely eliminates it.  That happens to me once or twice a month, and is no more frequent during wood heating season.  

Oddly enough, one hit me last night, which sucked because I accidentally left my nettie pot up at the in-laws Adirondack retirement home when I was up there a couple weeks ago.  It took me a few minutes to fabricate one from an old cider jug, but it worked great and headache is gone, just like with the store bought one.

We do have a big humidifier that uses about 2 gallons of water a day, when the woodstove is going.  It uses less than a quart a day, when only the two forced air furnaces are running.   Does your buddy have a humidifier ?

 

If he does it's hidden because ive never seen one. 

[moog5050]

Reminder, turn down your thermostat after testing.   It’s now boiling in here after forgetting to abs pulling cams.  Lol

[2012_taco]

22 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

You ever get headaches from the wood stove ? My buddy heats with wood and it gives me nasty sinus headaches if i spend too much time inside. 

Jeremy it's the humidity level. AS Wolc said with a wood stove it's very dry and you need to run a humidifier. We have a little cool mist humidifier running next to our wood stove and it helps alot. I don't always run it but my wife complains when the house gets too dry and she gets those sinus pains. 

[land 1]

a large pot of water ontop of stove works to we got a 4gallon one at camp amazing how much water burns off but keeps the air from becoming to dry