Looks like the Columbus Day Youth season is on!

[shooter]

Let me set the stage, The mentor has to wake or get the youth up out of bed that morning because they were texting all night on their cell phones to their friends. They youth then proceeds to bitch and complain about getting up so early. after what seems like 2 hours of trying to get ready cause the youth is playing deer hunter on his cell phone cause that's what he thinks it will be like they make it to the stand. The mentor then tries to educate and guide the youth on what to look for but the youth is to busy checking facebook, texting, twittering and so on............ I am sorry to speak like this but lets face our youth today is on another planet. I give props to the state for trying to get kids involved but am afraid its to late. Hunter numbers are declining and youth involvement is just not there. It may have worked in other states, but those other states probably have way longer seasons or even allow younger ages to participate.

[Larry]

Can’t see what the big deal is most of the hunting will take place on privet land. It will be up to the land owner if they want to let a kid hunt with a gun on their land. They can just say no. the only problem I can see is some kid may kill a big buck one of us is after. Here what I say to those of who think like that. BIG F$^#@ING DEAL There are more important things in life then how big a deer I kill. My kids are too old to hunt the youth hunt.

[G-Man]

Most states with big bucks and youth season have much shorter and split seasons, that one reason plans for other states don't work here, that and hunter numbers, ny has almost 4x as many hunters than say iowa... This may not be the answer for youth recruitment but it is a start, as for who's deer they are...as far as i know all game belongs to the state....

[fasteddie]

---- I don't have a problem shooting does and if that's the 1st deer that comes within bow range , i'll take that shot . I know hunters have tresspassed on the property I hunt in the past . I might just hunt the deeper woods to see if the kids are taught to do the same thing .

[covert]

Then why do you always make such a big stink over it? As you said before the time to let the DEC know how you feel is over.

As far as "summer like days", sure there are some warm days but not all of them will be warm, we have been hunting in the "summer like days" for years in the Northern Zone just fine.

Heck, last year we were doing that in November.

[New York Hillbilly]

This is going to be interesting for sure. If you think there is controversy over this now, just imagine the fall out if the unthinkable happens and someone does get shot. No matter what the circumstances are it will be a media frenzy of mega proportions and hunting as a whole will take a hit. DEC has pushed the hunter orange for safety's sake and then puts guns out there in the middle of people in full camo. I pray it does not happen!

Edited September 19, 2012 by New York Hillbilly

[erussell]

　

“Too Young?”

By Gene Wensel

I’m starting to see a disturbing trend among hunters trying to involve youngsters in the outdoors as part of a master plan to insure the future of hunting. On the surface, this is presumably a vital aspect in the legacy of our passion. Unfortunately, today’s “too much, too soon” temptations are quickly getting out of control in a society now geared toward skipping steps or avoiding any degree of apprenticeship whatsoever. Please don’t misunderstand me, I am NOT suggesting that we discourage people from getting youngsters into the outdoors. Far be it from me to dampen our legacy spirit, but in reality, the challenge is as simple as learning to walk before we can run.

I met a cowboy in Texas last spring who bragged about his son killing a whitetail buck last fall at age two! TWO?? Yes…. two! That, my friends, is far too young. Let’s break things down into reality. What reasoning skills does one possess at age two? What ethics level has been formed or even considered by someone who cannot yet speak a complete sentence? The kid was possibly still in diapers! Will there be a market for camouflaged diapers in the near future? The “hunter” probably wore pajamas with the feet still attached and gets a lollipop whenever he sleeps dry. He couldn’t sign his own name on a hunting license. He couldn’t even climb the magic ladder into the shooting house because the steps were too far apart. My guess is that he shot the deer with someone else’s rifle, in someone else’s shooting house, over a food plot planted by someone else. Dad locked and loaded, aimed the scope and instructed little Johnny to touch the trigger when everything was lined up. Is this a stunt to be proud of or to brag about? I ask you, did the boy hunt that deer or just shoot it? The deer was probably older than he was!

Several years ago I met a ten year old boy who had already killed his “Big Five” in Africa! That includes elephant, people. I was tempted to ask the kid what he did for work but I left well enough alone. Instead, I asked myself what caliber of gun a person hands a ten year old kid to shoot a 50 year old elephant? What does that boy have to look forward to in his adult life?

I was raised in another generation. I was not allowed to hunt deer until I turned 14 years old. That doesn’t mean I didn’t hunt as a youngster! I was pure hell on rabbits, birds, squirrels and groundhogs when I was a kid. As far as I was concerned, that’s why God made small game. In my generation, most kids started with slingshots, and later were routinely “issued” BB guns. Many a tweety bird fell to my Daisy. I was taught gun safety and right from wrong. I was allowed to hunt small game with a .22 rimfire somewhere around eight years old. My dad, in his infinite wisdom, knew my brother and I weren’t old enough or mature enough to be killing big game but he permitted Barry and me the freedom of roaming our farm for close range woodchucks.

I grew up suburban or rural. Like most kids, I went through all the immature and irresponsible stages of capture, where boys shot toads with rubber bands and paper clips, put lit firecrackers into the mouths of flopping suckers, ran soda straws up the butts of live frogs to inflate them to the size of apples, etc. It was pretty brutal kid stuff, where “boys will be boys“ attitudes prevailed whenever adults were not around. But I knew better than to even think about popping a deer. Eventually I learned outdoor skills like how to trap minnows and small game. I bought a leg hold trap and caught my first muskrat. When I walked up to the poor thing, I didn’t really know what to do next, so I killed him by punching him in the head until he died. The thought of using a club never entered my mind. Sad but true.

The entire woodsmanship venture is being skipped by modern American youth. Early on, either by my dad or through Scouting, I was taught basic outdoor skills; things like how to start a fire, how to dress a rabbit, how to tie knots, how to catch nightcrawlers, how to use a compass, how to sharpen a knife, and how to tie flies even before I owned a fly rod. I eventually learned how to stalk close to catch bull frogs by dangling a colorful trout fly a couple inches in front of their nose. I started as a Cub Scout. Merit badges were something to be proud of because they were earned. Today, the term “boy scout” has taken on a whole new meaning, if you get my drift.

Generations have evolved over the years, often allowing outdoor participants to skip any and all apprenticeship. I recently spoke with a guy whose son just returned from basic training in the Army. Out of 260 men in his entire company, only 22 qualified their first day at the rifle range. Less than one in ten knew how to shoot! They had to be taught. The finest fighting forces the world has ever known were once made up of American farm boys raised with firearms. They knew guns and how to use them. They hunted, ate red meat, and understood life and death. They also had what I like to call “heart.” They understood patriotism and realized this thing known as freedom was worth fighting for. I don’t mean to imply that modern American soldiers are no longer good warriors, as technology has filled in many of the gaps, but the simple fact remains that many, if not most, recruits now have to be taught woodsmanship, shooting, and basic survival or outdoor skills. One of the positive aspects of training new recruits who have never shot a gun is the fact they have also never taught themselves poor shooting form or other bad habits. On a related note, I might also add that, if given a choice, I would rather be in the trenches of war with any ten people reading this article than any hundred people attending a PETA convention.

Although many states have minimum age criteria, gun caliber limits and draw weight restrictions for bowhunting, many states do not. I regularly see “hero” pictures of small children posed behind defunct deer, often not even smiling. It makes me wonder. I’ve even seen six year olds “hunting” deer successfully on television shows. Most of the time, Dad appears a lot happier than the kid, who would just as soon be at home watching cartoons or playing a video game. Television hunting celebrities have programmed our youngsters to expect success without really earning it. Many are beyond even wanting to understand. They just want to be put in “a good spot.“ Instant gratification is demonstrated weekly at it’s very worst. In all honesty, many adult hunters themselves have a very difficult time differentiating love from lust, mostly because hunting has sadly turned into an industry.

So, when is a child ready to hunt big game? Notice, I said big game. Not until they are mature enough to understand what real hunting is all about. Not until they know that hunting has responsibilities that include honor and respect. Not until they understand life and death. Not until they realize animals don’t talk and “Shotgun Red” doesn’t really breathe.

Some kids are probably ready for big game sooner than others. I’ve known youngsters who were skillful enough at ten years old, but very few are ripe until sometime after their twelfth birthday. In the old days, young boys would squirm while waiting in anticipation for their fathers and uncles to come home from the hunt, anxious for the day when they too could participate. As the song goes, Davey Crockett “killed a bear when he was only three.” My guess is that the bruin was probably either treed or shot while eating from the Crockett family garden or garbage can.

In summary, I guess what I’m saying is that kids should not be driving until they are mature enough to take the wheel. Nor should they be holding down paid jobs except for basic chores. Nor should they be voting, dating, drinking beer, or running for office. I feel strongly that an outdoor apprenticeship is mandatory before allowing a youngster to hunt big game. Eagerness to learn is an important part of growing up, but doesn’t really count until a lot of questions are answered properly.

I think it’s only natural for every hunter to want their child to grow up to love the outdoors the way we do. But before you hand your daughter or son a tool that can drop a deer, ask yourself if he or she is honestly ready to do so in an honorable and respectful fashion. If, in your heart, you aren’t absolutely sure of the answer, give them more time. Allow them additional opportunities to hunt small game, then maybe a called in gobbler from a blind, or close flying ducks over decoys with a light shotgun. Sooner or later, they will be ready. The first deer season they will be mature enough to participate in will eventually come. Until then, help them to slow down, learn, and enjoy the outdoors for what it really is rather than just allowing them to take from it. After all, hunting is not any sort of race. It is, or at least should be, strictly non-competitive. You’ll know in your heart when your child is ready. And your heart will eventually soar as they grin from ear to ear when you finally say, “See his white belly?”

[jjb4900]

Posted by growalot..."I'm thinking with a hot stinking gut pile on a balmy 60 degree day and a bunch of big fat flies..OOhhh and bees buzzing around...the whole early season hunting experience...oooppps top it of with the stress the "mentor" will be having over the rush after shot work...Kids will not find the experience as fun as one may think ".....because this won't be an issue with a bow killed deer that you have to wait to track, maybe even overnight, the most ridiculous post yet, this topic is becoming a real comedy......can't wait for the next comment.

[wdswtr]

Yeah cause its not like we havent been shooting deer last few days of september and early october for years without issue. Got to use your brain. You know that thing that lies between peoples ears. I think every excuse possible has been brought up and ranted about. Guess what NY we arent the first state to try this with great success and wont be the last. The way some think is unreal. How many times can one person say the same thing over and over and over and still be so stuck in their own mind that there way is the only way strikes me quite odd. It has been said a hundred times already, this is a step towards creating interest to a younger generation. While some of you can sit there and bash away at the DEC let me ask you this. What the hell have you done aside from sitting on a forum complaining about a youth hunt all the while complaining about the early heat and probably not even going to be in the woods in fear of some stupid bugs and a little sweat. Sad what a bunch of whiners.

[First-light]

Columbus day will be here and gone before you know it. I just think it sucks that it is the first weekend of bow. Too many hunters in the woods. Most of us will be hunting field edges and so will the youngsters. I hunt private land and know who will be around, those who hunt public land be careful. I think we are all making a big deal outof this and it will be here and gone in no time. There will be that monster buck shot by a 14 year old for sure, that will be a whole other thread! lol

[bubba]

This is going to be interesting for sure. If you think there is controversy over this now, just imagine the fall out if the unthinkable happens and someone does get shot. No matter what the circumstances are it will be a media frenzy of mega proportions and hunting as a whole will take a hit. DEC has pushed the hunter orange for safety's sake and then puts guns out there in the middle of people in full camo. I pray it does not happen!

gotta say it again. You guys all preach the safety of blaze orange and how deer do not see it. So how does wearing it in bow season such a bad thing? Seems now you are going against everything you were preaching was so wonderful before, and now you feel like you are forced to wear it. I swore that was what just about everyone wanted in the past was mandatory blaze orange. What a bunch of hypocrites.

[erussell]

uh-oh Bubbas up. Good morning Bubba!!!

[bubba]

morning

[bubba]

look on the bright side. You do not have all those crazy cross bow guys shooting at you too.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Let me set the stage, The mentor has to wake or get the youth up out of bed that morning because they were texting all night on their cell phones to their friends. They youth then proceeds to bitch and complain about getting up so early. after what seems like 2 hours of trying to get ready cause the youth is playing deer hunter on his cell phone cause that's what he thinks it will be like they make it to the stand. The mentor then tries to educate and guide the youth on what to look for but the youth is to busy checking facebook, texting, twittering and so on............ I am sorry to speak like this but lets face our youth today is on another planet. I give props to the state for trying to get kids involved but am afraid its to late. Hunter numbers are declining and youth involvement is just not there. It may have worked in other states, but those other states probably have way longer seasons or even allow younger ages to participate.

So instead of actually looking up the facts, you just make some stuff up. Gottcha.

[mt624]

I don't think you have a clue as to other more meaningful things that will make a significant difference because (speaking of blinders) you are 100% invested in this feel-good scheme and haven't spent a single additional moment thinking about any other solutions. It takes somebody such as myself to look beyond the flaws of current thinking to invest the effort of innovation. Unfortunately your situation is the same as the DEC with committment to only one plan and absolutely no plan B's. You have grabbed on to this one insignificant plan and just like the DEC are falsely feeling fine about having solved the recruitment problem. I personally don't go for concessions. I would hold the DEC's feet to the fire until they come up with real significant plans. You apparently are easier satisfied.

Doc I'm only singling you out because you're a moderator of this site and a self proclaimed critical thinker (also apparently the only one on here it seems, according to you...) You talk the talk, do you walk it?

You have a great tool in this forum and have been very vocal in criticizing many details of this plan and several others who have posted. I am not a regular on this site, so maybe I've missed it if you've done what I'm going to suggest, and I would like to see others do the same: If you have such great ideas, post an outline of them in another thread and link from here to that topic. Let us discuss your points but more importantly, let us hear them instead of all your reasons against the current plan of action. See what kind of response you get, and see if you can please the masses. I'm listening and I'm sure others are too.

I sent several ideas and suggestions to the DEC during their feedback periods over the past couple years and I'm humble enough to see my ideas were not with the majority so I'm willing to see how this flies. I've also posted my ideas on other forums and tried to get people to send in their ideas, get people on the same page, etc. But I also realize I'm not going to get far on an online forum. You seem more willing to keep beating your head against the wall, and not settle for concessions, so I applaud you in that.

I'm not disputing what you're saying, just thinking a more positive approach that actually gives some direction all in one place (and organized) would be a much better way to get your points across. You dismiss others input as less important or less thought out than your ideas. So let's hear it. Let's hear some of that "It takes somebody such as myself to look beyond the flaws of current thinking to invest the effort of innovation." swagger!

If your ideas are valid and as innovative as you claim, you'll have some support from myself and I'm sure many others on here. Then maybe we can organize an effort to promote those ideas to the DEC and our representatives in government.

ERussell, I like the article you posted.

[WNYBuckHunter]

look on the bright side. You do not have all those crazy cross bow guys shooting at you too.

Yet lmao

[d-bone20917]

This may not be the answer for youth recruitment but it is a start, as for who's deer they are...as far as i know all game belongs to the state....

Actually the game animals in this country belong to the public trust which means they belong to all of us. The individual states just have the responsibility for managing them. And some states clearly do a better job then others.

Edited September 19, 2012 by d-bone20917

[Doc]

Doc I'm only singling you out because you're a moderator of this site and a self proclaimed critical thinker (also apparently the only one on here it seems, according to you...) You talk the talk, do you walk it?

If you want to take the time and invest a bit of effort to go back through previous threads that involve this subject, you will find several items that I have specifically suggested that would have far more impact than special youth hunts. You will also find that I have repeated them a few times to try to catch the attention of those determined to ignore them. I have already gone through all that and I have come to see the futility in trying to change closed minds by offering alternative ideas. Most rabid advocates of the youth hunt don't really like anybody suggesting alternative, more effective methods, so they quickly have changed the subject and moved around those things. They find it distracting from their locked in ideas and not particularly useful in their campaign. I also will say that I have written many letters to the DEC forwarding those suggestions on to the agency that supposedly has the power to implement them or some variation of them. Also, I have taken every opportunity to talk to DEC personel at public meetings and discuss alternative ideas. So as far as walking the walk, I guess I do. These suggestions involved DEC programs and activities in the schools and increased project activity from rod and gun clubs, etc. I will not be repeating any of that stuff on here again, as apparently it bothers some. Besides, that is getting tiresome and is absolutely useless because those that have their minds made up will skip over it all again. So anyway, it is all here somewhere in the archives, and available to those who are truly interested enough to look it up. But as far as going over all of that even one more time, I am done with it. The thoughts that I came up with are nothing amazing or involve any deep thinking. I would suggest that anyone willing to open their minds a crack could easily come up with them on their own. The problem is that people tend to grab on to the idea that's provided to them (right or wrong) and that's right where their thinking and innovation ends. You can't fight human nature.

[growalot]

....because this won't be an issue with a bow killed deer that you have to wait to track, maybe even overnight, the most ridiculous post yet, this topic is becoming a real comedy......can't wait for the next comment.

For one thing My quote you posted wasn't for or against the youth hunt it was a probability ...based on what I've seen grown men do...I'm the one called out of the woods when certain hunting buddies of my Dad in-law.... on cold days cant clean the deer they shot with out going green....

Now to you're point in quotes...You kidding me?...That's what???? because a bow killed deer laying over night in 40+ degree weather won't be building up any bacteria for12 or so hours and gases...but then again the youth season is for gunners in the first place...with the option to bow hunt...lol thanks for the laugh

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Weird. Someone should get on the phone to all the souther hunters and tell them that it is so hard to hunt in warm weather. States like SC have been deer hunting for a month already.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[SteveB]

They have been killing deer in parts of Florida since July.

[growalot]

What the hell have you done aside from sitting on a forum complaining about a youth hunt all the while complaining about the early heat and probably not even going to be in the woods in fear of some stupid bugs and a little sweat. Sad what a bunch of whiners.

Well if you've read my post that wasn't directed at me...but I'll address it with this view...and add even though most won't admit it...it's not the youth being out there and I did put in my two cents during the comment period...several times to several offices...I being such a selfish bow hunter...suggested they give them the weekend before gun opener

Anyways back to the point its the way this kids will be "mentored" that bothers me...human nature ....If that is a warm weekend all these kids will learn is to shoot a deer...not any of the stuff that goes with i......t nor I dare say the respect and reverence that should be the biggest thing.... after a clean a shot as possible...because there will be a rush to clean and get the deer cooled down...Now it will take a kid a whole lot longer to learn how to properly clean a deer than one will have on a warm day period...and it will stress everyone out ..THAT IS human nature like it or not....Now I have killed plenty of deer on warm Oct. days...It's stressful...It's fly ridden the minute you open them....what??? you ppl live in an area where flies migrate? please...and I'd bet even dollars there will be a whole bunch of ppl out there that never checked on where to find a processor open....I think the kids deserve a better first time hunt EXPERIENCE...not just a kill and pics

By the way I've written several times to the need for a earlier bow opener...and Will be out there thermacell and all.....milk jugs frozen...deer bags bought..cooler clean and knives sharpened.....

[growalot]

Well now that you've said that guys ...why don't you finish those statements with how the after kill process is done...because I've talked to many many southern hunters and the processors down there are a whole world of difference than up North...try taking a deer that's NOT been GUTTED to a processor in NYS

[growalot]

Bubba try not grouping all hunters that want blaze orange in the same sentence...I know you have some affliction to blaze.....I personally don't and will have some on.......as far as the cross bow comment...that brings up a good point...If this is a youth gun opener...and cross bows are allowed in deer gun only...why wouldn't it be legal for kids to be using crossbows?...is it stated that they can't?