Cell Cams banned by P&Y

[LetEmGrow]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

I will be completely honest, when I first shot my bow buck this year, I was excited knowing he could be entered in p&y and bb club.  Had him measured and yep he would make it.  Then the more I thought about it, it seemed silly to me to enter him. Just to have my name in a book. The more I thought about it, the more it seemed to diminish what that deer meant to ME.  It became a number.  That's not why I hunt and it doesn't matter much what others think.  impressing others is the only reason I could come up with to enter him.  Not my thing.  He is on my wall and a great reminder of the fun of that hunt and the entire season with my buddies.   That's what counts to me.  He won't be entered nor will any other deer I shoot (but I am reserving a world record exception).  Lol

 

Well said.  

[growalot]

This reminds me of one of the satellite issues I've mentioned...or a broken spoke causing the wheel to wobble ,as it were...So many more on the horizon.

[GreeneHunter]

Can someone enlighten me ... what/who is P&Y and should I care if I get my name in a book ? Just curious .

[rachunter]

i got caught up in it thinking it did a good justice to the bucks recognition.Then they pulled that crap with the let-off when Michael betty of ohio shot that bull non-typical,plus the deductions are non-sense an inch is an inch[watch it pygmy] i never entered another one but i still get excited when i hear someone shot a 170"  

betty buck 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by rachunter
spelling

[Doc]

13 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

Great anwser...I think it was Fred bear who said if you measure success in inches you should have been a yardstick maker.

 

 

 

Well, that is my new favorite Fred Bear quote. My hunting success or rewards will never be measured in inches, nor do I crave attention and recognition or peer admiration to the extent that I would ever need my successes ranked and published. My most treasured trophy is that first deer that I got with the bow. It was a spike buck with 5" spikes. But I still can recount every little detail of that hunt even though it was decades ago.

However having said all that, I have to say that a records-keeping organization has to maintain a level playing field for their rankings. It is their right and perhaps even duty to set standard rules for the entries. And if "no trail cams" is included in their rules, then that is the way it is. It's their organization, and their rules-making segment has made a ruling. So, for those that feel a need to have their trophies authenticated and then published, I can only say, rip those cams off the trees and be honest about what you are trying to do.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Doc

[stoneam2006]

Well, that is my new favorite Fred Bear quote. My hunting success or rewards will never be measured in inches, nor do I crave attention and recognition or peer admiration that I would ever need my successes ranked and published. My most treasured trophy is that first deer that I got with the bow. It was a spike buck with 5" spikes. But I remember every little detail of that hunt.
However having said all that, I have to say that a records-keeping organization has to maintain a level playing field for their rankings. It is their right and perhaps even duty to set standard rules for the entries. And if "no trail cams" is included in their rules, then that is the way it is. It's their organization, and their rules-making segment has made a ruling. So, for those that feel a need to have their trophies authenticated and then published, I can only say, rip those cams off the trees and be honest about what you are trying to do.

Absolutly I don't run cams probably never will for deer (want to run them over trap sights to watch critters work sets) every deer I take is an accomplishment and a trophy to me. It takes time in woods and knowing how to beat them at thier own game. I killed my first bow buck this season and even tho a 5 pt it means the world to me along with the 3 doe I killed with my bow also. And the little doe I killed with my 12 yr old cuz standing next to me on his first thanksgiving day stateland hunt. There is a feeling that I get when I see hear or feel a deer (or any animal) present and I know that I have a chance to outsmart them on their own turf. It could be the smallest deer and I start shaking and sweating trying to control my breathing and just before I take the shot time stops for that split second and then the adrenaline takes over. Trophy hunting in my opinion is ruining the sport of hunting it puts to much pressure on guys to take big boned deer. I understand the mature deer lvl but a old doe to me will bust you out of a tree 100 times before that buck does. Especially durring the rut. I hope that never goes away for me bc if it does I doubt I'll be in the woods nearly as much as I am now.

And I agree the cam rule for P&Y is a good rule in my book. How many in that book are from guys who put time in the stand to achieve their goal.

Cams are great technology but are taking away from the challenge and stacks the deck in our favor could almost call it cheating and when trying to play a game with an animal we all respect I'll keep it as even playing field as I can.

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[growalot]

Stone I liked a lot of your post ...BUT..have to disagree. With the monsters we have seen posted pre season by many on here,how many of those have you actually seen in the harvest thread. BTW..I can tell you with certainty you haven't seen the best of the best as far as big or even big racked deer. Most won't post those pictures. So to insinuate a guy shooting a mature deer buck or doe or even a big Tom is some how cheating or showing less hunting skill or time on the ground..Is pretty far off base...

[landtracdeerhunter]

Glad everyone doesn't think the same way or New York State would fall far shorter than it already does for record deer. Not entering your P&Y bucks helps in that respect.

[growalot]

I believe I was once referred to as delusional when saying a good many guys do not put their bucks under the tape... imagine my grin when moog made his honest post.  For one thing the thought that knowledge of where the bucks came from would end up being a known PITA. out weighed any " bragging " rights" for lots of guys.

IMO ...Seeing  the amount of dishonesty in hunting I've seen over the years..these books have little meaning to me,which is sorta sad for the honest guys that need the recognition.. 

[Doc]

Yes, once again the Saturday morning hunting shows strike with the hunter-heroes proudly showing past trail cam pictures of the monster deer they had just harvested. The insinuation is that the trail cam identified a flawless consistent pattern of that deer that enabled the hero-of-the-day to harvest the big monster. Well really..... was it the camera or more likely the fact that he was hunting for artificially well fed, near-domesticated deer inside a high fence. How many of us can say that we actually shot a deer that we had on camera? How many can say that simply getting a picture of a deer means that we then had any kind of edge over the deer?

Yes, the bookkeepers have a perfect right to incorporate any rules and regulations that they want into their acceptance of entries, but don't read too much into any of that.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Doc

[Buckmaster7600]

Social media will be the end of p&y anyways.


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[The_Real_TCIII]

Yes, once again the Saturday morning hunting shows strike with the hunter-heroes proudly showing past trail cam pictures of the monster deer they had just harvested. The insinuation is that the trail cam identified a flawless consistent pattern of that deer that enabled the hero-of-the-day to harvest the big monster. Well really..... was it the camera or more likely the fact that he was hunting for artificially well fed, near-domesticated deer inside a high fence. How many of us can say that we actually shot a deer that we had on camera? How many can say that simply getting a picture of a deer means that we then had any kind of edge over the deer?
Yes, the bookkeepers have a perfect right to incorporate any rules and regulations that they want into their acceptance of entries, but don't read too much into any of that.

Well that's exactly what they insinuate, however they are in the business of selling cameras


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[chas0218]

13 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

Depends on the person, not sure how many entries there are in P&Y but I'm betting there's a lot.


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I figure once it's officially taped by a certified scorer then there should be no arguing how big the buck is book or not. I know a lot of guys that score their own bucks and they somehow grow 3 or 4 inches from the official scorers measurements.

[grampy]

10 hours ago, moog5050 said:

I will be completely honest, when I first shot my bow buck this year, I was excited knowing he could be entered in p&y and bb club.  Had him measured and yep he would make it.  Then the more I thought about it, it seemed silly to me to enter him. Just to have my name in a book. The more I thought about it, the more it seemed to diminish what that deer meant to ME.  It became a number.  That's not why I hunt and it doesn't matter much what others think.  impressing others is the only reason I could come up with to enter him.  Not my thing.  He is on my wall and a great reminder of the fun of that hunt and the entire season with my buddies.   That's what counts to me.  He won't be entered nor will any other deer I shoot (but I am reserving a world record exception).  Lol

 

Hunting and real honest hunters are alive and well! It really doesn't matter weather you decide to enter a buck into the book, or not. As long as you can be honest with yourself about the motivation to do so. They just don't come more honest than this guy moog. And some others on here. Makes me proud to hang around you guy's, and gals. 

I need to read more on Fred Bear. He truly was ahead of his time. And timeless. His words of wisdom ring as true today, as ever before.

[nyantler]

20 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Unless you shot a state or world record, being in the "BOOK" probably only matters to you.   But to each their own.   If his head is on your wall does it really matter?   

Actually the record books were not created for hunter recognition. Hench the reason why the B&C system is not based on total inches of antler, but rather focuses primarily on symmetry. If not for record keeping, most of the largest and best examples of whitetails would never have been seen by most hunters. Record keeping is a great way to preserve the history of exceptional North American whitetails taken by hunters. Only the self centered hunters treat the record books as some kind of hunter prowess recognition... or log of the worlds greatest hunters. The truth is that most of the biggest and best whitetails in the record books have been killed by chance and good luck than skill. There should be no shame in entering a buck into the record book for future generations of hunters to enjoy.

Edited March 31, 2017 by nyantler

[Dinsdale]

3 hours ago, nyantler said:

Actually the record books were not created for hunter recognition. Hench the reason why the B&C system is not based on total inches of antler, but rather focuses primarily on symmetry. If not for record keeping, most of the largest and best examples of whitetails would never have been seen by most hunters. Record keeping is a great way to preserve the history of exceptional North American whitetails taken by hunters. Only the self centered hunters treat the record books as some kind of hunter prowess recognition... or log of the worlds greatest hunters. The truth is that most of the biggest and best whitetails in the record books have been killed by chance and good luck than skill. There should be no shame in entering a buck into the record book for future generations of hunters to enjoy.

That's why I like the Rowland Ward record book that contains animals from all over the world. Based entirely on the animal and a location; even a pick up counts if big enough.

[Nomad]

I could be wrong as that happens a lot, but my understanding is that one of the reasons the P&Y club was formed , was to show that the bow was an effective weapon for taking  game animals. I say this as my good friend and hunting partner in Washington is friends with the St.Charles family .

For those that don't know bow hunting a history ,the late  Glen St. Charles ( a man I've met ) is one of the founders of P&Y club . Half of Glen's work bench where  he made bows , arrows and such is in the P&Y museum, the orther half in my buddies basement .

Sadly IMHO it's turned into a " I made the book" club today .

[vizslas]

Every single one is a trophy. there are so many  pictures, and the joy it brings to the Family is priceless.Loseing A days pay to go hunt, who cares. Bring home a deer or two, fresh meat. These are the times I live for. a great life a happy wife and when I drag a deer up the driveway even the hounds happy factor increases ten fold. So I have a few on the wall.  Nice bucks no monsters. My first eight point  a couple years later i shot a nine, then there is the drop tine twelve. Jim block sure does fine work. these deer aint making the record book but they hang proudly in our home. So i say even the does are trophy's. but they don't make good looking mounts

[phade]

If there is a top lot buck, don't they make a lie detector test part of the deal?

Unfortunately the original purpose of the books have been lost IMO. Much more about money grab and politics.

I'd love to see a buck that tops one of the major categories and fails the books for some exclusionary reason that forces the conversation. That will really determine their true relevance in today's world.

I don't think anyone doubts the original intent of these orgs.


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[turkeyfeathers]

I've never killed a buck even close to P & Y so I'm good


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[G-Man]

The thing is it seems the western states where people pay big bucks to hunt post a lot o bucks to the book.. While I know of many in nys that would make it yet the owners don't want them as properties are smaller .. I have friends that trace West for several year only to shoot the same size bucks we have here in ny. 130 to 150 in on average.. The guides take pic of them and make them look larger and post gross scores... I'm glad nys has the rep of worse state to hunt in..its a hidden gem that refuses to show itself off

 

[TreeGuy]

I will be completely honest, when I first shot my bow buck this year, I was excited knowing he could be entered in p&y and bb club.  Had him measured and yep he would make it.  Then the more I thought about it, it seemed silly to me to enter him. Just to have my name in a book. The more I thought about it, the more it seemed to diminish what that deer meant to ME.  It became a number.  That's not why I hunt and it doesn't matter much what others think.  impressing others is the only reason I could come up with to enter him.  Not my thing.  He is on my wall and a great reminder of the fun of that hunt and the entire season with my buddies.   That's what counts to me.  He won't be entered nor will any other deer I shoot (but I am reserving a world record exception).  Lol
 

Ditto for my 14' buck. I still have the paperwork for nysbbc and p&y. No number describes that hunt.

[DirtTime]

Pope-Young, Boone And Crockett....Does it matter?

You want to get famous in this age of social media and electronic gadgets, start a Youtube channel.

[BizCT]

Pope-Young, Boone And Crockett....Does it matter?

You want to get famous in this age of social media and electronic gadgets, start a Youtube channel.

Instagram. Even Eva Shockey has 1/2 million followers. Once you have enough followers you get paid to just post ads of items

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[DirtTime]

12 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Instagram. Even Eva Shockey has 1/2 million followers. Once you have enough followers you get paid to just post ads of items

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So, I say again, who cares about P-Y or B&C? You wanna be famous? Just post on the web.