Neighbor Advice Needed

[Five Seasons]

I never thought I would be writing one of these, but here it goes. Warning it's long because I believe details are important.

My father owns about 15 acres in 8F. His property boarders that of another neighbor to the west with ~10 acres of good bedding area and he doesn't hunt. We have no stands there but use it to travel. The neighbor to the west of him owns 30 acres of great deer hunting property. My father has leased this land for 30 years. He pays a small amount of money each year as good faith, but has also posted the property, kicked out trespassers and brings good expensive slim jims and sausage to the neighbor. The neighbor grows some barely and stuff and is always happy for us to be taking deer off the land.

Earlier this summer my dad received a phone call from a guy in his late 20's early 30's. He had just married the neighbors daughter. He wanted my dad to show him all the good spots to hunt and where his stands were. My dad is retired and a diehard bowhunter. Doesn't care much about gun at all. He's a bit of an elitist (you now know where I get it from) and somewhat roughly told the guy no way. He works his ass off and this small piece of land really can't stand pressure. My dad takes nice mature bucks every year. And he does work hard on the land.

I'm a weekend warrior with vacation sprinkled in and also don't care a lot about gun season, however have been hitting it hard in search of some freezer meat this year. Usually I take a deer early in 7J, but weather and kids have made it harder to travel recently. We've only ever taken 2 deer with a gun off this land in 8F and one was a freezer doe last year. Well I'm setup in one of our good doe stands the afternoon before thanksgiving and this guy comes walking from the neighbors house down the trail with about an hour of legal light left. He spots me and I wave. He comes over and asks if I was my dad, I say no and that I'm his son. He asks if I will be moving from the stand and I said no. He then headed away and I knew my hunt was probably ruined but thought maybe he might bump something to me. He did. 15 turkeys. He's walking out of the woods at dusk and bust 2 small deer that had come in from the other direction. I had been watching them, but they were yearling does.

So fast forward to opening day weekend. His wife contacts me through facebook asking for my number to share with her new husband. I send it and we text back and forth. I generally try and nicely tell him that the area is small and is extremely pressured during gun season from all sides (not a lie). That if he lets me know when he will be out, then I can hunt other stands. Only about 2 of 7 are really affected by him, although another 2 are affected by the neighbors to the north, but that's a different story. Understandably I'm not thrilled about the new pressure, but it is what it is. He's asking if we do drives, if we have radios etc. I feel like i'm playing this all by the book. Friendly, but not eager to be buddy, buddy. Educating while not being a dick etc.

So he hunts Sunday and I don't. I hear of no luck for him. Now the next weekend he tells me he plans to hunt Sunday again. I say ok and pick a stand that might benefit from him walking around (he's a ground hunter). It doesn't and he shoots one of the fawn does. We have him on cam carrying the deer out on his back. No harm really. Good for him. We text, I tell him congrats etc. 

I assume he's done hunting or not going out this weekend because I don't hear anything. I honestly feel like it's on him to contact me right? Well Saturday I don't see anything and Sunday morning i pick the same stand where we crossed paths before with hopes of shooting a nice doe. Well I get in around 6:30 and don't have any action until 8am when he comes strolling down the lane. He waves and I wave, but I'm honestly pissed. 6 other stands I could have hunted and he also comes in prime time. To top it off he stops 30 yards down the lane behind me and sits. While obscured by branches he's within bow range of me and I can see him for Christs sake. Not only is he cutting me completely off but it's borderline dangerous. He then text me that he's going to setup here and that "i can probably see his orange". I don't text back and I'm f'n losing it internally. I sit another 10 minutes debating on what to do and also hoping maybe his clowning will kick a deer around him where I can get a shot. It doesn't. I decide to packup my gear and move. I make my way to another stand, but I don't use the approach trail as it might push deer his way. I make a racket taking the direct approach and spend the next 90 minutes heated in the stand and not enjoying the beautiful morning. I end up getting down a little before 10 as it's just not in me. I'm not in my happy hunting place.

So that's the story. I vent to my dad when i get in and he drops a bomb that this kid might be a turkey hunter too. Which isn't a big deal as the leased property doesn't hold turkey well, but I'm not sure I'm happy to share ours if it comes up. So the risk in all this is bow season. The holy grail of the property and a generally low pressure awesome time to hunt. We don't know if he plans to bow hunt, but everything is on the table. He holds the relationship trump card with the neighbor despite the 30 year relationship with my father. Any negative moves with turkey or anything else could ruin bow if it's not already ruined. 

I still haven't heard from him or reached out to him since yesterday morning. I do strongly feel like he made an absolute dick move and if anyone disagrees I'd like to here why. No communication, then posting up 30 yards from me? My dad suggests that I let him know that he messed me up good and I believe I tend to agree, with a polite reminder that we were going to communicate. Although both of us get a sense there's some arrogance with him, but that remains to be seen. We're told his family has land that he hunts too, so it's not like this is his only place to hunt. Yes it's not lost on me that this is clown hunter karma for me ... but I did marry into a family too where the grandpa is a farmer. Told my dad and I that we could hunt it. Found out his farm hand hunted it and didn't pursue it. Right thing to do.

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Belo

[Fletch]

I read this and still need to ask, is he just using the neighbors 30 that your dad kind of leases? And I imagine there is no lease agreement just a handshake kinda thing. I guess it matters what was the initial conversation when your dad started paying to hunt there.

[TreeGuy]

This is a tough one. I'd have dad sit down with owners and just "talk" about it. Maybe mention that there should be solid communication on the when's and where's to prevent any dangerous situations. The only downside is that he is now married in, so if an issue arises you and your dad will prob get the boot before he does. I don't know man, good luck and I hope it works out !

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[JRod 8G8H]

...Sounds like he is looking for a hunting buddy... but he has to know that how to move about the property is the most important part of seeing deer, especially right now with hunting pressure.  Make it clear how many years you've been managing the deer there too so he passes on babies... Maybe tell him in a nice way how he needs to move in and out of the property without being detected by you and most importantly the deer.  Good luck

[G-Man]

Ok the only thing I am confused on is what neighbors daughter did the guy marry? The one that doenst hunt or the guy with the 30 acres?

[BizCT]

Odds are family comes first, so any conflict could mean you/your dad are out and this guy gets to hunt alone. I been through similar things many times over the years until my Dad finally bought his own property.

[G-Man]

The guy seems to like that stand..If it's the 30 acre guy it's gonna be his eventually anyway.. I'd tell the guy to guy a stand and I'd help him hang it there and hope he uses that stand exclusively.. Then hunt one of the remaining knowing he is gonna pressure deer their will shift them to another of your spots..  If it is son in law to 30 acre piece you fight it and you will lose..daddy's girl wins

Best bet give him a decent stand spot to sit and go to other.. If he's living there on the property it's would be up to you to ask him ..if not I would say it's up to you to double check so you don't run into rim or he you

[Jeremy K]

Very simple solution .

STEP 1 : Pick a spot that he would  beas far away from you as possible 

STEP  2: Put rubs and scrapes all over the area you want him to hunt ,you know he'll stampede that area and leave your spots alone. 

You can even text him to say you saw some deer activity over by that area and ask if he saw anything himself .  He sounds like a prime candidate for the ol jedi mind trick. 

[grampy]

Unless you own the land, always remember that blood is thicker than water. Yes, your dad has done right by the land owner for 30 years. Yes the kid does seem like kind of a deck. Yes you guy's have intelligently hunted the property for a long time. But all it will take is the landowners daughter, to say you guys are being mean to her new husband, and he will be the only one hunting there. Fair? Absolutely not. Likely?  Very much so. My thought is that perhaps, you and dad can be a bit more friendly with the kid, and work out something that works for all of you. Even if you have to bite your lip to do it. Only you and dad, can decide if it's worth doing that.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

22 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Ok the only thing I am confused on is what neighbors daughter did the guy marry? The one that doenst hunt or the guy with the 30 acres?

Barley farmer with 30 acres. 

 

Belo, 

 

I would take a holding pattern for now. I get the feeling that based on the way you described it he is inexperienced and not very good at hunting. If he doesn't know the nuances his success rate will be low and he may lose interest in the property or the sport as a whole. Problem solved with no conflict. I'd wait to see how next season fairs at it approached. As far as turkey. "I would love to give you permission to turkey hunt on our property but My father has 3 friends that are retired and already hunt it heavily. I think it would be too dangerous since it is so small"

Edited December 4, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Get your checkbook out. Real Cash will trump the family thing in many cases. If it's really worth it...Throw some $$$$ sign's at him.

For just you and your dad to hunt. Deer, Bird's, Whatever.

[moog5050]

I agree with grampy and culver.  Its late enough his season to let it roll and see whether it even becomes an issue next year.  Perhaps he will be gun only and eventually just stop showing.  I had that happen on a property I have permission on.  I think the other party with permission got tired of seeing us.  Hasn't been back in 2 years and we need said anything to him or the owner.  That said, if its gets intolerable, have the friendly but frank discussion and find a solution as per grampy's suggestion.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Fletch said:

I read this and still need to ask, is he just using the neighbors 30 that your dad kind of leases? And I imagine there is no lease agreement just a handshake kinda thing. I guess it matters what was the initial conversation when your dad started paying to hunt there.

sorry, the guy with the 30 prime acres. the 10 acres we have permission for (although none of the other neighbors have asked and use it to). Yes just a 30 year neighbor handshake kind of thing.

50 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

This is a tough one. I'd have dad sit down with owners and just "talk" about it. Maybe mention that there should be solid communication on the when's and where's to prevent any dangerous situations. The only downside is that he is now married in, so if an issue arises you and your dad will prob get the boot before he does. I don't know man, good luck and I hope it works out !

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

your first point was what I thought we had going. your second point is the scary part.

50 minutes ago, JaredA WNY8G said:

...Sounds like he is looking for a hunting buddy... but he has to know that how to move about the property is the most important part of seeing deer, especially right now with hunting pressure.  Make it clear how many years you've been managing the deer there too so he passes on babies... Maybe tell him in a nice way how he needs to move in and out of the property without being detected by you and most importantly the deer.  Good luck

yeah and I'm not really looking for that, and I've talked to him about his approach. The lane he walks in on has harvested some good deer. the whole woods is pretty human free but the neighbor mows this trail and the deer use it... or used to. He really doesn't have much of a choice. 

37 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Ok the only thing I am confused on is what neighbors daughter did the guy marry? The one that doenst hunt or the guy with the 30 acres?

30 acres. but losing the 10 someday will suck too. My dad is still mad at my mom for not "letting him" buy the whole thing back when they were starting out haha.

34 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Odds are family comes first, so any conflict could mean you/your dad are out and this guy gets to hunt alone. I been through similar things many times over the years until my Dad finally bought his own property.

yep. i told my dad that same thing. daddy's going to listen to his little girl every time.

28 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The guy seems to like that stand..If it's the 30 acre guy it's gonna be his eventually anyway.. I'd tell the guy to guy a stand and I'd help him hang it there and hope he uses that stand exclusively.. Then hunt one of the remaining knowing he is gonna pressure deer their will shift them to another of your spots..  If it is son in law to 30 acre piece you fight it and you will lose..daddy's girl wins

Best bet give him a decent stand spot to sit and go to other.. If he's living there on the property it's would be up to you to ask him ..if not I would say it's up to you to double check so you don't run into rim or he you

it's good advice to the point where it's the primmest of all the spots on the block though haha. but certainty not looking at cutting off the nose to spite the face. 

[Five Seasons]

26 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Barley farmer with 30 acres. 

 

Belo, 

 

I would take a holding pattern for now. I get the feeling that based on the way you described it he is inexperienced and not very good at hunting. If he doesn't know the nuances his success rate will be low and he may lose interest in the property or the sport as a whole. Problem solved with no conflict. I'd wait to see how next season fairs at it approached. As far as turkey. "I would love to give you permission to turkey hunt on our property but My father has 3 friends that are retired and already hunt it heavily. I think it would be too dangerous since it is so small"

this is where I have been. The success with a doe was sort of a bummer from the standpoint that he's tasted some victory.

10 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Get your checkbook out. Real Cash will trump the family thing in many cases. If it's really worth it...Throw some $$$$ sign's at him.

For just you and your dad to hunt. Deer, Bird's, Whatever.

i disagree. blood wins ususally. Offered to buy the land many times. guy is retired and while not loaded doesn't seem to care about the money. 

9 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I agree with grampy and culver.  Its late enough his season to let it roll and see whether it even becomes an issue next year.  Perhaps he will be gun only and eventually just stop showing.  I had that happen on a property I have permission on.  I think the other party with permission got tired of seeing us.  Hasn't been back in 2 years and we need said anything to him or the owner.  That said, if its gets intolerable, have the friendly but frank discussion and find a solution as per grampy's suggestion.

my hope too is that newly married he will knock the daughter up and lose his free time. haha.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

my hope too is that newly married he will knock the daughter up and lose his free time. haha.

Maybe you need to expedite that situation...lol

[Robhuntandfish]

same thing happened to one of my hunting buddies.  He had permission for a lot of years til the daughter married and he and his buddies started hunting.  And no one told him til he got there opening day of gun a few years ago.  I would hang onto it for the prime time of bow and hope this fella isnt a die hard hunter and gets tired of it in a couple of years.  Hope for a real cold gun season next year.  Family will always win out if it becomes an arguement.  But would stay on the good side of things just to keep your bow hunting safe at the very least. 

[turkeyfeathers]

38 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Very simple solution .

STEP 1 : Pick a spot that he would  beas far away from you as possible 

STEP  2: Put rubs and scrapes all over the area you want him to hunt ,you know he'll stampede that area and leave your spots alone. 

You can even text him to say you saw some deer activity over by that area and ask if he saw anything himself .  He sounds like a prime candidate for the ol jedi mind trick. 

Love Step 2

[Four Season Whitetail's]

5 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

Then you are not using as many $$$ that's needed although yes if he is in a good $ situation then you will prob get the wrong end of the stick.

[Nomad]

Include him, help him , and guide him , or, it will  be all his sooner rather then later .You had a nice 30 year run for next to nothing , had to know the end was near .

 

 

[BizCT]

Is the daughter hot? Why didn’t you lock it up first?


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[The_Real_TCIII]

13 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Is the daughter hot? Why didn’t you lock it up first?


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If history is any indication you will get him to post a pic eventually, im subscribed!

[Just Lucky]

I lost hunting land in a similar situation. Farmers son moved back home. Granddaughter and her husband did also. And a grandson too. Built 2 new houses, brought their friends and family. All with brown it's down mentality.  They had success first couple years. I kept moving and giving up spots I was hunting as they discovered them. Hunting got slower and their success declined. I continued to get a deer or 2 and with that started the jealousy. I am no longer allowed on the land. It sucked at first since I had hunted there for over ten years however it made me pursue different avenues. I sent out letters to land owners for permission,  had coworkers with land allow me to hunt, found a hunting buddy with same mind set, got family members who got old and no longer hunt but allow me to. Looking back made me better at the game cause now have different situations to hunt and find deer. Alot of people will give permission to hunt their land for a little of your time if asked. Good luck and hope it works out for you

[mlammerhirt]

Although a little late to the party I agree with most above posts.....I feel if you wanna stay there either help educate and guide this guy along.....or just check out now and put your time and money into land elsewhere.
The problem is that 3o acres is a bit small for 3 hunters....and i am guessing you would be pretty ticked if he dropped a slammer.

Another problem with hunting in groups is not everyone agrees with each other's way of hunting. Some people are sent freaks, others could care less. Some will walk to their stand, others wanna ride the ATV. There is a fine line and many relationships are lost each and every year due to many of these conflicts.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

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[nyantler]

You actually have it good... the guy could have told the father in law he wanted the land to himself and you could be out completely. Count your blessings you could be hunting on just your 15 acre piece.

[nybuckboy]

Although not perfect and after reading your post and others responses, here's mine.

As stated you lose out to the family side if you push things. If you really want to hunt the 30 acres, then have a sit down with him. He appears to be a beginner hunter. Tell him what you are trying to accomplish on the 30. Tell him that you are looking to try and grow some bigger bucks and that by passing on the little bucks they get a chance to grow. Take him under your wing and share the property. Teach him how to be a hunter and perhaps you'll actually enjoy it. In a pissing match you will lose.  I know this isn't what you prolly want to hear but at least you will know where he going to be rather than have him mess up your hunts.