Scared?

[chas0218]

21 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Well Belo is telling us there last tow weeks of bow are where it is at for killing the most deer because of rut activity. ( I agree).. That is where this evil cross bow that is basically a gun was forced in, right? But the number for total take in bow season didn't go UP. Actually with bow and that evil crossbow sitting in the prime killing time, the total take in that period went down from 2016. I haven't looked it up but I'd bet it's down from 2015 as well. 

You're looking at a 5% differentiation between the 2 years of overall deer take not that big of deal when talking overall numbers, my guess weather played a big role. With a 25% increase in crossbow harvests it will only be going higher.  They had the same number increase in PA when they did full inclusion. The number of hunters that picked up a crossbow to hunt during archery season was huge when they used to compare the bow take to the crossbow take and NY will be the same. Number of hunters increased, along with number of archery harvests. It isn't some big secret crossbows in bow season will bring out more people, more people more pressure less deer seen. More pissed off hunters, more trespassers all seasons long, more stolen equipment. Can't wait to have more headaches and screwed up hunts. It's great to see so many wanting full inclusion.  Can't wait for the degenerates to come out of the woodwork.

I don't think all crossbow or gun hunters are degenerates but in our area it is a non stop battle all year long but even worse during big game hunting seasons. Bow season is the one season I don't have to police my property except the last 2 weeks of bow it is bad then gun is horrible. FWIW all the trespassers I have kicked off in the last 2 weeks of bow season have been crossbow hunters. Last year we had 5 on game cam and kicked 2 off, both said they shot a deer and were tracking it with no blood.

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Well Belo is telling us there last tow weeks of bow are where it is at for killing the most deer because of rut activity. ( I agree).. That is where this evil cross bow that is basically a gun was forced in, right? But the number for total take in bow season didn't go UP. Actually with bow and that evil crossbow sitting in the prime killing time, the total take in that period went down from 2016. I haven't looked it up but I'd bet it's down from 2015 as well. 

Yes but how many bow hunters are switching to crossbow for those  2 weeks?? I have 5 in my camp that do.. and 3 got deer with them but they all bowhunt as well.. that is the real question! Are we really.picking up new hunters or keeping the older ones in the game and others switch just because they can?

[GreeneHunter]

Between my son and I we pulled 5 deer out of our woods this year .... no decline there !

[NFA-ADK]

3 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Yes but how many bow hunters are switching to crossbow for those  2 weeks?? I have 5 in my camp that do.. and 3 got deer with them but they all bowhunt as well.. that is the real question! Are we really.picking up new hunters or keeping the older ones in the game and others switch just because they can?

I think its a combination of hunters like you described in the last sentence. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

11 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Yes but how many bow hunters are switching to crossbow for those  2 weeks?? I have 5 in my camp that do.. and 3 got deer with them but they all bowhunt as well.. that is the real question! Are we really.picking up new hunters or keeping the older ones in the game and others switch just because they can?

My point to Chas (and he's blind with his hate of cossbows)  was that there were a lot of guys that picked them up. some where bow hunters (like me for the first time this year) some were gun hunters.  And it had NO impact on the total harvest numbers during bow. So the "sky is falling" crew are safe for another year

[NFA-ADK]

The other issue is location, I have hunted in a location only a few miles from where I saw over 100 deer between myself and another hunter and saw only 2 deer for the day.  Real easy to say deer are everywhere when you have many in your area but not all areas are created equal.  Also not everyone sees deer as easily as others. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by NFA-ADK

[Culvercreek hunt club]

30 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

The other issue is location, I have hunted in a location only a few miles from where I saw over 100 deer between myself and another hunter and saw only 2 deer for the day.  Real easy to say deer are everywhere when you have many in your area but not all areas are created equal.  Also not everyone sees deer as easily as others. 

That works in the reverse as well. Just because someone's property sucks or their  skill set isn't at the level of others could cause some to say there are no deer and populations are down while the opposite could be true. 

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Just curious as I don't think I've seen you comment on the subject, what's the dispute?

typo and i can't edit. I have no dispute. It should be simple and painless for elderly and handicapped to get a crossbow permit for the whole season. Even if that means some jokers abuse it and get one too.

[Five Seasons]

59 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Yes but how many bow hunters are switching to crossbow for those  2 weeks?? I have 5 in my camp that do.. and 3 got deer with them but they all bowhunt as well.. that is the real question! Are we really.picking up new hunters or keeping the older ones in the game and others switch just because they can?

i think you're picking up gun hunters that didn't previously bowhunt. And yes you're also getting compound hunters looking to change it up. I'm not sure anyone has survey data on new crossbow hunters that didn't previously hunt the archery season. I be it's not insignificant though. There a good handful on this site alone.

To Chas' point, many gun hunters are good ethical people. Many of them like myself also bow hunt. But rarely is an archer a sloppy ass. Not impossible, but far less likely than the gun only hunter. I don't think this point is disputable. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Belo

[Steuben Jerry]

10 minutes ago, Belo said:

typo and i can't edit. I have no dispute. It should be simple and painless for elderly and handicapped to get a crossbow permit for the whole season. Even if that means some jokers abuse it and get one too.

I concur!

[NFA-ADK]

18 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

That works in the reverse as well. Just because someone's property sucks or their  skill set isn't at the level of others could cause some to say there are no deer and populations are down while the opposite could be true. 

That goes with my last sentence.  

 

 Also not everyone sees deer as easily as others.  

I know a few properties where hunters say no deer are around and another hunter goes and pulls out a nice 8 pt and is never invited back, lol. 

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

i think you're picking up gun hunters that didn't previously bowhunt. And yes you're also getting compound hunters looking to change it up. I'm not sure anyone has survey data on new crossbow hunters that didn't previously hunt the archery season. I be it's not insignificant though. There a good handful on this site alone.

To Chas' point, many gun hunters are good ethical people. Many of them like myself also bow hunt. But rarely is an archer a sloppy ass. Not impossible, but far less likely than the gun only hunter. I don't think this point is disputable. 

Statistic all the fact you never need and lacking the ones you do...lol.  I do not know 1 crossbow hunter who didn't bowhunt previously.. I'm sure they exist. But if they pick it up in would assume They are a bit better than the average hunter..face it some people will never kill. A lot of deer .. 

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, NFA-ADK said:

The other issue is location, I have hunted in a location only a few miles from where I saw over 100 deer between myself and another hunter and saw only 2 deer for the day.  Real easy to say deer are everywhere when you have many in your area but not all areas are created equal.  Also not everyone sees deer as easily as others. 

it's funny how many deer i see during turkey and how many turkey i see during deer. Or how many during the season are out grazing fields that nobody can hunt. You'd think there were a million deer and you'd be right. But you might sit 2 days and not get an archery range shot. They're not dumb and they go nocturnal quick. Deer sign and sightings are one thing. Opportunities are another. 

[sodfather]

5 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

And when it does get fully included you will still have that same option to hunt with a bow until your arms fall off. 

That’s right and I feel like if you don’t have a medical issue or are over a certain age you should not have the same season as regular archery.. I want to use my shotgun during black powder but I can’t but I’m not going to whine about it not being fair..

[Five Seasons]

12 minutes ago, G-Man said:

Statistic all the fact you never need and lacking the ones you do...lol.  I do not know 1 crossbow hunter who didn't bowhunt previously.. I'm sure they exist. But if they pick it up in would assume They are a bit better than the average hunter..face it some people will never kill. A lot of deer .. 

I don't recall you and I ever really butting heads... but you are putting your own personal anecdotal evidence above a statistical survey? Come on man. There's been polls here before. I thought I started one myself but can't find it. But here's something similar

https://huntingny.com/forums/topic/40822-why-did-you-buy-a-crossbow/

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

I don't recall you and I ever really butting heads... but you are putting your own personal anecdotal evidence above a statistical survey? Come on man. There's been polls here before. I thought I started one myself but can't find it. But here's something similar

https://huntingny.com/forums/topic/40822-why-did-you-buy-a-crossbow/

 

I only know 6 guys personally (plus myself) that bought crossbows. all 7 of us are/were bowhunters. 

 

And it looks like the vast majority of the responders to that thread were already bow hunters. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Culvercreek hunt club

[grampy]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I only know 6 guys personally (plus myself) that bought crossbows. all 7 of us are/were bowhunters. 

Now that I think about it,  I too, don't personally know anyone, who bought a crossbow, that didn't hunt with a bow previously. And were long time, successful bowhunters. 

[DirtTime]

Biz had a cross bow before a compound.

 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Biz had a cross bow before a compound.

 

 

Yeah, but he's not reallllly a hunter so that doesn't count...lol

[DirtTime]

Poll created! 

[mowin]

Out of all the bowhunters I know, only a handful have purchased a crossbow including myself.  2 used to bow hunt, but stopped, but not for health reasons. I only know of 1 gun hunter who started crossbow hunting.  

I, along with 3 others did purchase one for health reasons.  Fall cleanups, (lawn care owner), wipe my shoulder out. By the time Nov hits, I'm sometimes lucky to pull my 42# bow back once. I continue to use my vertical as long as I can, but like the option of grabbing the x-bow if I need to.

[fasteddie]

I bought a crossbow to use for the two week period just to stay on an even keel with the other deer hunters . Why use one of my compounds when I can take the easy way . 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

I do not know 1 crossbow hunter who didn't bowhunt previously

I know of one and he purchased a x-bow because he wanted to hunt during bow season but didn't want to commit to the time required to learn how to shoot a bow, practice, and hunt deer during the "early" season. Deep down he is a dedicated gun hunter.

[Just Lucky]

I bowhunt, used a crossbow last season for the last 2 weeks, gun hunt and muzzleload. Last year ,being the first with the crossbow I found it the most challenging because of the weight, and size.

I keep reading others say that it takes alot of dedication and hard work to shoot a bow. I started with an onieda recurve compound, then went to a bear legion compound.

I can not speak for long bows and recurves, but it really doesn't take more than a weekend to learn and shoot a compound effectively with all that technology has to offer.

 

[wolc123]

20 hours ago, maddie said:

x2 a member from deer search said it best # of calls for verticle bows 2-3 a week # of calls for xbow 30-40 per week

 I only know for sure what my own numbers are and they certainly do not jive with that.  I only released three bolts at deer with a crossbow and all three dropped dead within 40 yards.  Of the dozen or so arrows that I released at deer with a vertical bow over many seasons, (2) may have missed, (6) were recovered kills and (4) were hit but not recovered.  Of those (4) losses, one died for sure (too far back) and (3) likely recovered (shoulder blades with no penetration).   

I have a pretty good idea why my own kill percentage is at 100 % on deer with a crossbow and why I was never able to get close to that with a vertical.  First, eliminating the need to draw with a deer in close has totally eliminated "string jump".  It is a lot easier to hit a relaxed deer where you want to than an alert one.  Second, It is much easier to hold a tight group from a rest than it is offhand.  And finally, a telescopic site makes it much easier to hit the individual hair on the deer that you aim at.  For sure, the main reason the Crossbow has never let me down (on a deer) is because: What other weapon would Jesus prefer that I use ?   He apparently has better places to put grouse than "Deer heaven" (our family's food supply) though.  I missed one of those with my first crossbow shot ever at a game species.   I am completely helpless as a hunter on my own, and totally dependent on Him to keep my family fed.      

Edited April 6, 2018 by wolc123