Deer Intelligence

[Doc]

There was a comment on another thread that made me start wondering about a deer's ability to learn and become a more elusive prey. What do you all think about the possibility that deer hunted in states with more pressure becoming more educated by more common encounters, and becoming what appears to be "smarter" than deer in states where the pressure is lighter? Do you think that pressured deer adopt better escape and hiding abilities?

[grampy]

Deer do not become "smarter". They just become more "conditioned" by the hunters who pursue them.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

They are pretty smart because they can be conditioned. Like looking at tree stands before stepping out into an opening. Happens many times.


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[turkeyfeathers]

Conditioned is the perfect term.  

As far as I know I’ve never been busted by a deer seeing me in my stand by them looking up. Except last year when only the primer in my ML went off and I clanged the ram rod on foot portion of stand trying to reload. But the sound tipped him off. 

[Jeremy K]

The smart ones learn they can sit still in coverage and watch you walk right by . Bucks have use streams that is over their head in depth to change areas without detection.

[NFA-ADK]

I would say Yes to that question.  They get conditioned (I like that also.) to our movements and habits.  The more we do this to them the better they are at avoiding us.  

If I hunt the same public land another hunter has been in I might spook the deer in one location that looks like a good hunting spot, the next guy who sits in that spot is busted without even seeing the deer and wonders why that spot sucks.   

Leave it to Grampy to come up with a logical explanation and perfect term.  Conditioned...  They react to there environment and seem to remember what is considered danger and how to avoid it. 

[Doc]

Yes, the heavy pressure of NYS does offer the deer more encounters with hunters. And yes that intense "conditioning" could very well make them a tougher animal to hunt. They do seem to be able to separate out the harmless wanderings and shootings of small game hunters, and understand when they themselves become the target of humans. I find that in itself quite remarkable. And I also believe that the more encounters they receive, the more they start putting two and two together and begin employing a heavy-duty survival mode to their lifestyle.

[Jeremy K]

I have 2 areas that I hunt ,one spot I can have deer so close while I'm on the ground I could spit on them ,the other spot ,the deer leave the county at the first hint we started hunting again.

[WNYBuckHunter]

41 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

The smart ones learn they can sit still in coverage and watch you walk right by . Bucks have use streams that is over their head in depth to change areas without detection.

Thats not smart, thats instinct. They do that from the time they are fawns.

[Jeremy K]

50 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Thats not smart, thats instinct. They do that from the time they are fawns.

Ok then some don't have the instinct to sit still and get up and run.

[NFA-ADK]

38 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Ok then some don't have the instinct to sit still and get up and run.

Yes this is true not all deer will sit still when approached.  Some have learned that running is just as effective as staying in one spot, the older ones tend to do this more as they learn running is not needed every time.  Fawns also tend to stay still, instinct tells them to stay still. 

[Steve D]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

made me start wondering about a deer's ability to learn and become a more elusive prey.

I personally believe it is the genetics. Lets face it the dumb ones get killed and never or most times ever get to pass their genes on. The "smarter" ones pass their genes on to the next generation and I think the survivors get just a little bit smarter each year.

 I have seen a more elusive trend over the years and a trend to go mostly nocturnal towards the beginning of Nov.

[fasteddie]

I believe deer have evolved . When I 1st started hunting from a stand over 20 years ago , deer didn't look up . They have changed over the years and have gotten smarter . 

[Robhuntandfish]

i dont really want to think about it , cause often they are smarter than me. 

[bugsNbows]

They are definitely smarter than NYS politicians! 

[Steve D]

1 hour ago, bugsNbows said:

They are definitely smarter than NYS politicians! 

Almost anyone is

[wolc123]

They certainly have enough of it to "pattern" hunters. For me, almost every 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 (I am not sure if I have killed any that were older than that) was "tripped" up by an "unexpected" move on my part.  The one last year was brought down by my move from a ground blind in a food plot, to a nearby tree stand, with just 15 or so minutes of daylight left.  I raked out some leaves, fooling him into thinking that a rival buck was over there clearing a scrape.  I do not think he would have stepped out into that foodplot, had I still been in that blind.   The one the year before thought it was ok to step out of the heavy cover, after his little buddy made it through unharmed.  Little buddy got a rare pass from me and he paid the price.

My favorite was the 3-1/2 year old a few years before that, who thought he was safe if he hung out with a flock of turkeys.   I unexpectedly dropped the book I was reading and got down from my stand, into the little patch of brush it was over, with a few minutes of daylight left.   Had that book not fell when it did, his turkey pawns would have spotted me in my blaze orange camo a mile away up in that stand.  The jig was up, when the happy group landed on that brush patch, with 2 minutes of legal shooting light to go.  Fortunately, my slug gun was still loaded and his big neck made a nice target from 15 feet away.  I had to aim carefully to avoid hitting a turkey with that shot.       

[G-Man]

Yes. They learn not just from hunting but before season slamming doors ,woodsmoke from chimneys, dogs, smells and sounds of getting camp.ready before season cause a shift I'm patterns and movements.. 

[First-light]

and throw it all out the window when a hot doe is being trailed by a big buck.......stupid is as stupid does. 

[Nomad]

10 hours ago, Doc said:

They do seem to be able to separate out the harmless wanderings and shootings of small game hunters, and understand when they themselves become the target of humans. I find that in itself q

In my friends yard , you can drive up and park 20 yards from the deer, get out and walk into the house .

But cross the creek 20 feet behind the house and go up in a stand 30 yards in and it’s no different then hunting them, in any woods , one squeak , or wrong wind and they’re gone .

[nyslowhand]

Whatever you prefer to call it.. conditioned, instinctual, hereditary trails, perception of danger.. whitetails have adapted well and you might even call it evolved to some new environments. This is very evident in the difference in deer living around suburban areas or places with frequent human traffic compared to deer living in isolated or large brush lot/wooded habitats.

^^^^ yeah, it's about how they perceive danger! I have putted along on an ATV in my hunting area and passed within 20' of deer curiously watching me, numerous times. As long as I don't stop or make any hand movements! Completely different story or reaction when I'm on foot along the same paths. Be lucky to see the white flags bounding away in the distance.

AND then just when you think you have them figured out, you realize you have no clue...! lol

 

[Doc]

One thing that cannot be denied is that deer learn and have some level of reasoning. I am reminded of that every year when all of a sudden all these spooky, reclusive, deer start showing up grazing on my front yard within days of the close of the hunting season. They do not need a game-laws syllabus and a calendar to figure out that hunting season is over.

We hunters obsess over scent elimination to keep the wily whitetail from catching our scent and disappearing before we even see them. And yet I have watched them graze over top of piles of dog feces and not even flinch. I have also seen them munching on shrubs that are within a yard of our front door with no concern about the human scent all over that area.

They seem to be able to assess situations and make decisions based on logic and reasoning.

[nyslowhand]

^^^ this is a little over the top, don't you think??? You may be onto something, but JMO you've way over rating their intelligence. What you're suggesting is a whitetail could complete the "square peg and round hole" test...? Survival instinct and cognitive intelligence are different functions of any mammal's brain. Granted, deer have fine tuned their instincts over the millennia, but conversely, they continue to do dumb-a$$ things that defy reason.

[G-Man]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:08 AM, Doc said:

One thing that cannot be denied is that deer learn and have some level of reasoning. I am reminded of that every year when all of a sudden all these spooky, reclusive, deer start showing up grazing on my front yard within days of the close of the hunting season. They do not need a game-laws syllabus and a calendar to figure out that hunting season is over.

We hunters obsess over scent elimination to keep the wily whitetail from catching our scent and disappearing before we even see them. And yet I have watched them graze over top of piles of dog feces and not even flinch. I have also seen them munching on shrubs that are within a yard of our front door with no concern about the human scent all over that area.

They seem to be able to assess situations and make decisions based on logic and reasoning.

I do not care about scent elimination.. I actually use scent to an advantage.  My cat is indoor and outdoor we have seen it a mile back in the woods while hunting. My one friend is obsessed with scent control and complains the cat will lay on his stuff or will scent it up.. but if you think about it the cat is in the woods 365 days a year. Its scent is well known to the deer. If you smell like the cat then the deer are familiar and ignore you. Always take time to scratch the cat before I go out the door.. and yes the cat is known to climb up in the deer stand with me and watch for deer for hours.. 

My friends success rate is much lower than mine and other who dont care about scent control. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

^^^ this is a little over the top, don't you think??? You may be onto something, but JMO you've way over rating their intelligence. What you're suggesting is a whitetail could complete the "square peg and round hole" test...? Survival instinct and cognitive intelligence are different functions of any mammal's brain. Granted, deer have fine tuned their instincts over the millennia, but conversely, they continue to do dumb-a$$ things that defy reason.

I am only relating actions that I see every year. Call it what you want, but somehow their behavior seems to recognize the coming and going of deer seasons, what scents truly mean danger and when, and even occasionally what human activity and behavior is threatening and what is not. Is that learned behavior and some form of fundamental reasoning, I'll let others determine that. But there are plenty of examples where deer have modified their patterns and behavior from what they would perceive as "close calls" and experiences. Base instinct can only go so far with explaining some of that.