Logging land?

[Cory]

Has anyone ever logged their land? I’m meeting a land consultant tomorrow to see what I have. I own 95 acres of mostly hardwood with hemlock and pine also. What are some pros and cons of this process . Also some recommendations on company’s as well if you have them.

[hueyjazz]

I know people that have done it.  They made some cash but it seems most of it goes to logger no matter what they tell you.   It can be quite healthy for woods if done right removing weak and diseased while opening up for growth. 

Problem is most loggers want cash logs of straight sections of prime wood like oak and hemlock.   Unless some deal is worked out they are in this for purely making money.  Not improving your woods.  They often leave you the parts like limbs, curve sections and branches they don't want.  This does make good habitat for ground critters but I found it to be messy in woods as we are talking a lot of piles.  Equipment used to haul out and haul away also makes a mess.  Some do use draft horses which are cool to watch work and can go places equipment can't.   They are also kinder on earth.  

I would have an agreement which trees are being taken by mark and a clear understanding on what and how things will happen.  In writing

Your forest consultant should have some idea of whom the better loggers are and maybe a passed local client list that would have idea of loggers and how they were treated.

[jperch]

Loggers do hard and dangerous work.  They also have a lot of money invested in equipment.  They deserve to make a good income.  With that said I have had some bad experiences with loggers.  The last time my land was logged the logger did not complete the work he had agreed to.  When adjacent land was logged trees were taken from my property and the DEC helped me out.  You are wise to hire a consultant and let him/her handle the negotiations and obtain a written contract.  I wish I had done that.  I know some good loggers and again I respect the job they do.  AS Hueyjazz said, be careful, get it in writing, and realize that there will be some mess, perhaps a lot of mess.  In the end your woods will probably be better habitat and you'll have some money.

[Moho81]

I feel as though you already have the most important step started and that is hire an forester to help you decide what your section of woods needs. A good consultant will do it all for you for a fee of course but it's worth it. They help mark the trees to be removed, they help get bids from the loggers, prepare the contact etc. In your contract it should state that the logger has to repair your land back to what it was before their machines destroy the trails there is no way to avoid that but it should be their responsibility to repair it once the job is over. 

You will have a mess on your hands after they are done. I don't think I have ever been apart of logging where they took the tree tops with them. Some tree tops are a good thing though. They provide food while they still have leaves on them, they provide shelter for smaller animals as well as protect new growth. Unfortunately your version of a tree top and their version of a tree top maybe two entirely different things. In our most recent logging their version of a tree top was about 20'-25' of the tree. It left us with a mess that we will be cleaning up for a couple of years one section at a time. 

[Farflung]

hi Cory, I am a retired Forester, though I still do a few sales a year. When you say a forest consultant, make sure you are getting a actual Forester. A lot of folks call themselves Foresters but are actually loggers or are working for a mill. You might want to talk with your local DEC office. They will be familiar with Foresters working in your area. Most Foresters that are in the buisness are members of the Society of American Foresters, though I know of a few good ones that are not. Most foresters work on a percentage of the sale bid price. Make sure they have a good contract in force. Usually when you do a bid sale, the higher bids will offset the cost of the forester and you will have a better residual stand.

[Cory]

2 minutes ago, Farflung said:

hi Cory, I am a retired Forester, though I still do a few sales a year. When you say a forest consultant, make sure you are getting a actual Forester. A lot of folks call themselves Foresters but are actually loggers or are working for a mill. You might want to talk with your local DEC office. They will be familiar with Foresters working in your area. Most Foresters that are in the buisness are members of the Society of American Foresters, though I know of a few good ones that are not. Most foresters work on a percentage of the sale bid price. Make sure they have a good contract in force. Usually when you do a bid sale, the higher bids will offset the cost of the forester and you will have a better residual stand.

I am meeting with a forester and he did mention percentage. I like the aspect of them acting as a GC for the project opposed to me over seeing because let’s face it they would know I wouldn’t! They also mentioned removal of all tree tops at no charge to be included in the bud is that normal? 

[farmer 52]

There is a member on this sight,Pete Collin,I believe he is located around Letchworth,he oversaw my grandparents woodlot and did a credible job


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[Cory]

2 hours ago, Farflung said:

hi Cory, I am a retired Forester, though I still do a few sales a year. When you say a forest consultant, make sure you are getting a actual Forester. A lot of folks call themselves Foresters but are actually loggers or are working for a mill. You might want to talk with your local DEC office. They will be familiar with Foresters working in your area. Most Foresters that are in the buisness are members of the Society of American Foresters, though I know of a few good ones that are not. Most foresters work on a percentage of the sale bid price. Make sure they have a good contract in force. Usually when you do a bid sale, the higher bids will offset the cost of the forester and you will have a better residual stand.

Is this a long process or relatively quick. By what I mean quick is deer season is 4 months away?

[ncountry]

2 hours ago, Cory said:

 They also mentioned removal of all tree tops at no charge to be included in the bud is that normal? 

Any logger that removes treetops for "free" is not being honest. There is value in the tops whether it is for firewood or chips.. 

If you don't want the tops in the woods for the wildlife and want a nice clean looking woods  I would be sure to hire a logger that has a chipper and sells chips. It seems like many of the loggers do these days.

[stubborn1VT]

I saw a job where they did whole tree removal and chipped the tops.  It took forever, there was tons of erosion and it took a really long time for everything to grow back.  Those tops are a mess, but they are also food, habitat and nutrients.  Just something to consider.  Also, I have never seen a logging job that went "fast".   Most of the larger jobs I have been involved with took a year longer to complete than expected.

[G-Man]

Use a forester and tell them what you want it cut for lumber or wildlife or a mixture..  if your not up on timber and tree types a forester is by far best way to go.  There is no bad side to proper logging. It improves every thing ,hunting, habitat, access.. 

[G-Man]

3 hours ago, Cory said:

I am meeting with a forester and he did mention percentage. I like the aspect of them acting as a GC for the project opposed to me over seeing because let’s face it they would know I wouldn’t! They also mentioned removal of all tree tops at no charge to be included in the bud is that normal? 

No a good job would.leave tops below 8 in. For cover and regrowth..  future forestry is a good honest forestry service ,many in logging industry dont like them as they are stickers for proper cutting and removal and resperation of logging roads including water bars and erosion control

[catskillkid]

   I would strongly urge you to hire a certified forester. I have had my land in the NY State Forestry Program for many years now and had my land logged two years ago. I was very happy with the process and the end result. A certified forester will mark the trees that HE believes should be removed from your property. Trees that are 16" DBH or larger. This will allow your land not to be over harvested so smaller trees will be released.  This will also let you have a timber harvest approximately every 15 years. He will also mark trees that are deformed and diseased to be removed for firewood and biomass. This is called "TSI" Timber Stand Improvement. If you allow a logger or mill forester to mark trees, he might only take the best of the best and leave the worst crooked trees behind. This is called High Grading. This would not let your forest recover for many generation.

   The forester will charge you a percentage of the harvest, but his services include advertising for sealed timber sale bids. He and you will go over the bids and decide which purchaser to choose. The increase profit by letting him handle the sale will more than cover his percentage fee. He will also supervise the work and require the logger to post a performance bond to make sure the land has been restored to your satisfaction. You can also add a condition that no logging will take place during the big game season like I did.

   DEC has a list of certified foresters on their web site. PM me if you would like to know who I use.

[Farflung]

Cory, Catskill kid had  the  best response. It seems like he is  in  the  480a program which  is a good fit for some, and not for other  landowners. The  16 inch (presumeably diameter breast height) is not always true. Depends on a lot of different factors and the  landowner objectives. Feel free to PM me with you number if you wish to  chat.

[left field]

For what it's worth, my property and the surrounding was cut by someone who was trying to get as much money out as they could before they sold. It's a disaster.

[Moho81]

Is this a long process or relatively quick. By what I mean quick is deer season is 4 months away?

In the contract you can specify the time frame that they can work in your woods. Our contracts always excluded working from October thru December.

If I remember correctly the last contract we signed gave the logger 3 years to do the work and he couldn’t work from October thru December every year.


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[Zag]

Im with gman. Cory with future Forrest did a great job for us. He marked a ton of junk trees for removal. Id also suggest leaving the tops!!

[E J]

As others have said, Cory with future forest consulting is good. I've had him on a couple of jobs on properties I used to own and I was happy with him.

[Cory]

I’m so glad I met with a consultant. The meeting was very educational. He actually lives nearby to my place and had pictures from the 60’s and 70’s of my property I was blown away. Then I get into why we have no oak trees in the area and he starts telling me about glaciers during the ice age and how it still affects areas with growth was very interesting. To say the least I’m very impressed and most likely be moving forward in the process.

[Jeremy K]

Make sure they clean up when they're done . 

[Versatile_Hunter]

https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/119950.html 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Leave the tops and Gman said. It provides cover for the new seedlings to sprout and get up without being browsed off. 

[Chef]

Has anyone ever logged their land? I’m meeting a land consultant tomorrow to see what I have. I own 95 acres of mostly hardwood with hemlock and pine also. What are some pros and cons of this process . Also some recommendations on company’s as well if you have them.

My huntinh camp was logged the year before I purchased it , it was great for all the wildlife. Lots of thick tender undergrowth within 3 years. It’s the best thing you can do for game management.


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[Chef]

I know people that have done it.  They made some cash but it seems most of it goes to logger no matter what they tell you.   It can be quite healthy for woods if done right removing weak and diseased while opening up for growth. 
Problem is most loggers want cash logs of straight sections of prime wood like oak and hemlock.   Unless some deal is worked out they are in this for purely making money.  Not improving your woods.  They often leave you the parts like limbs, curve sections and branches they don't want.  This does make good habitat for ground critters but I found it to be messy in woods as we are talking a lot of piles.  Equipment used to haul out and haul away also makes a mess.  Some do use draft horses which are cool to watch work and can go places equipment can't.   They are also kinder on earth.  
I would have an agreement which trees are being taken by mark and a clear understanding on what and how things will happen.  In writing
Your forest consultant should have some idea of whom the better loggers are and maybe a passed local client list that would have idea of loggers and how they were treated.

This is true they can leave quite the mess


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[bfahy13]

On 5/20/2021 at 7:29 PM, catskillkid said:

   I would strongly urge you to hire a certified forester. I have had my land in the NY State Forestry Program for many years now and had my land logged two years ago. I was very happy with the process and the end result. A certified forester will mark the trees that HE believes should be removed from your property. Trees that are 16" DBH or larger. This will allow your land not to be over harvested so smaller trees will be released.  This will also let you have a timber harvest approximately every 15 years. He will also mark trees that are deformed and diseased to be removed for firewood and biomass. This is called "TSI" Timber Stand Improvement. If you allow a logger or mill forester to mark trees, he might only take the best of the best and leave the worst crooked trees behind. This is called High Grading. This would not let your forest recover for many generation.

   The forester will charge you a percentage of the harvest, but his services include advertising for sealed timber sale bids. He and you will go over the bids and decide which purchaser to choose. The increase profit by letting him handle the sale will more than cover his percentage fee. He will also supervise the work and require the logger to post a performance bond to make sure the land has been restored to your satisfaction. You can also add a condition that no logging will take place during the big game season like I did.

   DEC has a list of certified foresters on their web site. PM me if you would like to know who I use.

Who did you use? I am buying a place up in walton that is crazy overgrown. 

I am starting to plan to start the process so once the deer season is over this year we can get started.

Thank you,