Any Correlation?

[nybuckboy]

I got to thinking... There has been much talk about about horn hunters and meat hunters... those of us who hunt for the mature trophy buck and those who hunt for most any buck. I'm not saying either is right or wrong. 

Do you think there is any correlation between the hunter who has:

A- Land of their own or that is leased determining what and how they hunt

B- A lot of time to dedicate to waiting it out for the mature or trophy buck

C- Both owning their land or leasing as well as many days to hunt.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by nybuckboy

[chrisw]

Land ownership certainly has an effect on me... I don't own any, I only hunt stateland. I'll kill a 2.5 yr old buck on stateland every year because getting them past that is few and far between especially with a bow. If I had a good chunk of land I'd push my standards to 3.5+. I will not shoot a fawn, as I see no challenge in it, fawns are dumb and careless and I'll go without venison before I kill one, and the only time I'll kill a 1.5yr old buck is if it's at the end of archery season and I'm in need of venison and haven't connected on any does. I do also have more time to hunt than most so I'm much pickier as a result. I have a box full of racks in my garage of 1.5yr old bucks, I'm still proud of them but they aren't in my living room with the others either.

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[Paula]

I would have to say no. I have hunted state land some but I have always had permission to hunt on someone’s land. I have only seen  three live bucks while hunting. 

This could be interesting, can wait to see some answers or thoughts. 

[Zag]

I think when you break it all down it comes to the land you hunt, what it offers for food, water, cover and so on. You can own a lousy spot and you can lease a lousy spot. How much time you spend in the stand gives u more chances at success. 

 

[biggamefish]

I would think owning land would make a difference. One you can till,cut trees and make the land productive to growing older mature deer. So you would have a greater opportunity to take a mature animal.

 Some it wouldn't make a difference to though. Some think that a 4 point is a trophy no matter how many you have on the wall.  There is nothing wrong with that. It's what makes hunting great.

No matter where you hunt state or private there are nice deer 2 year old plus. The thing is you have to put effort to finding them.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by biggamefish

[wolc123]

I do not see any correlation between owning land, but I do see a correlation to what stage of life the hunter is in.  Most young beginners are not too fussy and will take the first legal deer.   Many enter a "trophy" stage after a few years.  Family obligations (more hungry mouths to feed) pushes some (myself included) towards the meat.  Empty-nesters often return to the trophy stage for their twilight years.      

[nybuckboy]

I think "time" is the most important factor for which a hunter may decide to horn hunt rather than meat hunt.  Obviously if you really like venison and you have only a few days to hunt you can't be as particular.

To me... it would seem most likely someone with a lot of time, perhaps retired or simply takes off a lot of time during hunting season who has their own land or has a land lease, once again would be more likely to horn hunt.

[ApexerER]

For me, I have changed as I have gotten older.  Flame suit on, when I was younger I would blast away at any deer I saw. Nobody should hunt the way I did when I was 16-20 maybe even a little older. Then I got older and wiser and got a couple young bucks under my belt. After I shot my 8 pointer which took a lot of years in the woods, I had no desire to shoot little spikes or forkhorns. My standards changed, I guess I felt like I would be going backward. I enjoy every encounter now with those little guys and hope they will be around next year. If I get a shot at a large doe I may or may not take the shot for meat. If she has young ones with her she will always get a pass. For me to shoot a buck I would have to feel like it is a trophy to me...(not to anyone else) What that standard is depends on my weapon, time spent in the woods etc. I would probably shoot a 6 pt with my bow, with my crossbow for sure since I have yet to harvest a deer with a  crossbow. But that same deer might get a pass with my rifle. I guess I never really have a standard in mind until I see a deer and decide whether that deer is going to be a trophy to me on that day.

[zeus1gdsm]

I hunt for meat and where I hunt there are no trophy bucks.

Took my first buck last year. 1.5 yr old 4/5point.

With a buck under my belt I primarily focus on does. And unless I'm close to tag soup I'll only tag another young buck if it has more than 5 points.

Have access to a 20 acre property and 50 acre property and a 10 acre property.

The 50 is only huntable about 20 of it. If that.

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[Chef]

In the past I would have said no owning land has not effect on what someone will take..... that is untill I bought land. Last year was the first year I had the property, closed the 2nd week of bow season. Got my climber out and had a brown is down mentality. Arrowed a doe the next morning. This year things have evolved. I have run cameras for a year. Done some land improvements. Added apple trees planted and plot hung many stands and followed my cams for a year. I will say my mentality has changed. I will not be shooting a doe this year and will probably be passing on 6 pointers as well. I took inventory of what I have on cams as well as meat I have in my freezer from the purchase of a cow and fishing and even some left over deer meat from a multi deer season last year. Basically i will only be shooting a buck that I want on the wall of the new cabin...... another factor that plays into this is there are two newer hunters that I mentor and I would much rather then take a doe or 6pt so why disturb the property for anything other then a wall hanger.


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[Robhuntandfish]

i think owning/leasing property gets people more invested and therefore they spend more time out there.  Prob especially for a second deer.  When i had only public land , if I got a deer for the freezer it was some work too but I was usually done after that.  Now that I have a few options for hunting , my plan is to get a freezer queen and then hunt for a buck and hopefully one of size.    

[chas0218]

Most definitely (A) personally there is nothing more rewarding than getting a nice mature deer off your own property. If you hunt state land (I have for many years and never shot a mature deer) getting a mature deer off from there is like a unicorn sighting. I don't think dedicating a lot of stand time has much to do with it but more scouting time. The years I spend more time scouting seem to pay off a lot more than years I don't some of my best scouting has been done on the first weekend in Nov. usually my last day hunting for the weekend and headed home after I will end a little early and walk around a little looking for good deer sign. I have found some awesome areas by accident and killed some nice deer there.

Edited October 13, 2017 by chas0218

[nyantler]

I know hunters that pass on does then shoot the first buck that comes their way then feel compelled to tell everyone they shot a small buck because they're a meat hunter... you don't need to justify shooting a legal buck, but I am always curious to know why you passed on the does if you're a meet hunter. I really think it is way more about ego than meat sometimes. The old " I'd cut my tongue out rather than have to tell my friends I didn't get a buck this year" kind of ego. The whole trophy hunting " let 'em grow" mantra rattling in everyones ears isn't helping either. You shouldn't have to categorize yourself as anything but a hunter.. period.

Edited October 13, 2017 by nyantler

[jim12064]

I appreciate your thoughtfulness but the root if the issue is that DEC does not care about deer management- they care about population control  until that is changed it's all just debate

[dbHunterNY]

hunting the family farm land actually prevents me from being a mature trophy buck hunter.  being a mature trophy buck hunter to me means you put yourself in a position to have a chance at something  that's 6.5+. also it can't that they're always "scrub antlered" bucks that make it that far.  family farm isn't at that stage and probably won't ever really be on a year to year basis.  not enough people hunting there have that kind of will power.  i do know other property in the Northeast that do but i don't hunt there much at all.  it's feasible but by no means easy to make work.  if i didn't have the family farm to hunt and the nostalgia, memories, and family ties to go with it i would be at those other places though.  i think hunting the top 10% where ever i am in practicality makes me a trophy hunter. more often you'd probably think i'm a meat hunter though.  i do everything my priorities outside of hunting allow to make the deer the healthiest and herd most productive.  more years than not i'm filling the freezer with doe from where ever they need to be taken and not putting a buck on the wall.  I could easily focus on mature trophy bucks more but it'd lead me else where, often alone, with antlers on the wall and fewer people to share it with.  not worth it in my mind.

[Iluvracks1359]

I fall into neither of those categories, yet I have passed up small 6's and some 4 pointers each of the last two years. Ive only been lucky enough to kill two bucks, both were 4 pointers, and both were in the same season 3 years ago.  I do not own any land, but I am basically the only person that hunts the land that I hunt, but for meat I will take a doe any day before I shoot a small buck. That being said, if he's a nice 6 or more, im pulling the trigger, regardless of how old the deer is.

[turkeyfeathers]

I have exclusive 70 acres that nobody else should be on. So I'd consider that my own property.  Do bucks I see there get hammered on surrounding properties, absolutely   Very rarely do I ever see any slammers on my cams nor in person. And like iluvracks I also will shoot a doe before shooting a small buck. I've never killed anything worthy of a wall mount but holding out I have a feeling I'll eat that buck tag too. Easy 110-120 hours in woods during regular gun season and ML season. So it's not like I shoot an average buck and be done with it and then I don't enter the woods again perhaps missing out on a stud. I'm still out there trying to fill doe tags. Never once with my buck tag now punched have I had to let a big buck walk as already tagged out with buck tag. I just jinxed myself I'm sure. If it's a good sized deer regardless of sex and I have tags it's hopefully coming home with me. Guess I classify myself as a meat hunter then as never shot a Bullwinkle.

[grampy]

I've been fortunate, to take decent bucks and many deer, from public, and my own private land.  I let most all of the deer I see walk now. Though a nice fat doe may be taken, when the time and place is right, for the freezer. Hoping my grandson or my buddies daughter, or a young hunter, will kill the doe or bucks that i don't shoot. Before the season I'll tell myself, I'd like to shoot this or that buck. Again, on our land, or public.  But as the season goes on, I'll see a buck and let him pass, only to maybe shoot him later in the season. Because I saw him running doe, or fighting, or just cruising through, with snow on his back and vapor from his nostrils, one cold November morning. Then after I've built up a bit of history, I "may" decide to kill him, and always have those memories of seeing him doing what bucks do. Or having a certain buck bust you a few times, and win some battles, to show how hard he is to hunt, and really challenge me. That is always fun, weather he wins, or I do.  I most likely will not shoot a buck, younger than three years old.  As that is what it takes to form some of the above criteria, not how big his rack may or may not be.  And it will not bother me one bit if I shoot no deer at all.  Above all else, I now put more value in the hunt itself, than the kill. And it really makes no difference were that hunt is, my land, public land or invited to hunt a friends property.   

[Robhuntandfish]

1 hour ago, turkeyfeathers said:

I have exclusive 70 acres that nobody else should be on. So I'd consider that my own property.  Do bucks I see there get hammered on surrounding properties, absolutely   Very rarely do I ever see any slammers on my cams nor in person. And like iluvracks I also will shoot a doe before shooting a small buck. I've never killed anything worthy of a wall mount but holding out I have a feeling I'll eat that buck tag too. Easy 110-120 hours in woods during regular gun season and ML season. So it's not like I shoot an average buck and be done with it and then I don't enter the woods again perhaps missing out on a stud. I'm still out there trying to fill doe tags. Never once with my buck tag now punched have I had to let a big buck walk as already tagged out with buck tag. I just jinxed myself I'm sure. If it's a good sized deer regardless of sex and I have tags it's hopefully coming home with me. Guess I classify myself as a meat hunter then as never shot a Bullwinkle.

you sound exactly like me........  I have 120 acres I share with a guy ( a couple other places too but mainly there) and have never really gotten a monster buck but once in awhile a nice one on cam.  Almost every year end up with a 5 pointer and very happy for that! I have passed on spikes and buttons but usually it seems to be a 4,5,6 point.  And then hope to add a doe or two in the mix. 

[TurtleFace]

I can only blame myself for not scouting the public land I'll be using, nor the land a friend will let me use. First deer in range of either sex that's not tiny(also no doe with fawn) will have an arrow heading it's way. After my first day out at my friends I'll pull the cam photos and we'll starting working on a plan on who we will want to target. 

Any size rack will be a trophy to me. if I can I'm hoping to eat only the meat i kill until I run out. Except for my girlfriends chicken. Only a fool would go without the chicken that she makes.

Edited October 13, 2017 by TurtleFace

[turkeyfeathers]

Turtleface , I used to have the same mentality of not shooting any does with fawns. I ate a lot of tags passing them up for years. Unless it's a really late born fawn the fawns will be fine. Other does will actually adopt them at times. I had 2 fawns during gun season routinely cruise by almost every day. Victim of bow or car ? Not sure, but they were doing fine. It's odd to see a fawnless doe unless perhaps she's past the hill of giving birth or simply looked like Hilary Clinton and no buck wanted her. So small fawns with give her the pass. Decent sized early / normal birthed fawns and take her. Again I was on the same mentality for many years.


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[UWShunter]

Since I've learned how to cook venison like a trained chef, it's no longer about the horns. It's about the meat. If I harvest a big 8 point - great. But if not - it's about the amazing venison I can cook for many months!


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[nyantler]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:54 AM, jim12064 said:

I appreciate your thoughtfulness but the root if the issue is that DEC does not care about deer management- they care about population control  until that is changed it's all just debate

Population control is the first part of deer management. You either manage the habitat to handle the population or you manage the population to live in the given habitat all to establish the healthiest herd possible. The DEC tries their best to do that plus keep a whiny NY hunter population appeased as well... a monumental task.

Edited October 15, 2017 by nyantler

[Gencountyzeek]

Before we bought our house 3 years ago i would shoot pretty much any buck i saw. I would always try to shoot a doe first, then buck hunt but if i wasnt seeing anything id shoot the first deer in range. This was on private property in rushford. I shot 2 nice bucks off that land. I know own a house with 46 acres. 12 acres is crop field, 31 acres is woods. I have put in a food plot, cleared trails, and i have 1 neighbor who shares similar views on hunting. We will let little bucks walk most of the season. But in the end, we go through 3 deer a year. So by the end of muzzleloader season i need 3 deer. I shot my biggest buck ever last year during gun season. I have a buck on camera that goes probably atleast 150". I shot a doe opening morning. I may shoot 1 more doe during bow, and than just wait on a buck. So yes owning land changes how i hunt.

[wolc123]

On 10/13/2017 at 2:21 PM, turkeyfeathers said:

I have exclusive 70 acres that nobody else should be on. So I'd consider that my own property.  Do bucks I see there get hammered on surrounding properties, absolutely   Very rarely do I ever see any slammers on my cams nor in person. And like iluvracks I also will shoot a doe before shooting a small buck. I've never killed anything worthy of a wall mount but holding out I have a feeling I'll eat that buck tag too. Easy 110-120 hours in woods during regular gun season and ML season. So it's not like I shoot an average buck and be done with it and then I don't enter the woods again perhaps missing out on a stud. I'm still out there trying to fill doe tags. Never once with my buck tag now punched have I had to let a big buck walk as already tagged out with buck tag. I just jinxed myself I'm sure. If it's a good sized deer regardless of sex and I have tags it's hopefully coming home with me. Guess I classify myself as a meat hunter then as never shot a Bullwinkle.

I can relate to that.  These days, I try and hang onto my buck tags until the mid-point of archery season and until Thanksgiving (during gun), unless a good shot at a 2-1/2 year or older buck is offered.   I have also never punched a buck tag and later saw a larger one, when I was out working on DMP tags.   Much of the wind leaves my sails, after my buck tags are punched, and that certainly plays a part.   After that, the effort I put in is much less, especially if our venison supply is secure.  We try and live a subsistance lifestyle, and that takes 4-5 deer to get from one season to the next.  I do not consider any season to be a complete success unless both of my buck tags are filled (the size of the antlers does not matter) and our venison supply is secure.   

I am not overly concerned where the venison comes from, as long as it is cleanly killed and handled properly.  "Gifts" from friends are cool, as are fresh road-kills.     A buddy from work blessed us with a fat button buck last year,  as did a hit-and-run motorist a couple years prior.   Those are treasured above anything on our table, and if you ever ate one you would understand why.   It has been about 5 years since I shot one myself, maybe this will be my "lucky" year.   I saw what might have been one with his/her momma up in the NZ on Friday with my crossbow, but they were out of range.   I always target the largest antlerless deer first, which has resulted in only 25% of them being button bucks, thru the years.  That would make it very tough for me to take one with a crossbow.  If it was at home in the Southern zone gun-season, then they would have a good chance of making the short trip to "deer-heaven" (our family's food supply), together.  That has happened a few times in the past.  

I don't get very excited about killing does for several reasons.   First, they are tougher for me  to process as it always takes more time to trim the higher percentage of fat that they typically carry.   Second, I always think about the bucks that they will never be able to produce again.  Third, they don't come with those nice wall decorations that provide great "reminders" of past successful hunts, and handy grab-handles to drag them to the loader or ATV.  I would like to see NY state provide a third buck tag for those who purchase a gun, bow, and ML licence.    Three 2-1/2 year old bucks, and one button would be a perfect way to fill the freezer, and meet the protein needs of my family for a year.