For Or Against Full Inclusion

[Steuben Jerry]

25 minutes ago, Just Lucky said:

After I tried it myself I will say it was not.

I love my X-bow, but it's also an awkward and clumsy thing to carry around too!

[Lawdwaz]

2 hours ago, moog5050 said:

I am against any further polls on this subject.  

So we’ll create a poll to see if we should do another poll............??

That should appease the crowd.

[ATbuckhunter]

I've always been against full inclusion, but i also always felt that we should allow those that are above the age of 60 to be able to use them during bow season. Only reason Im against it is because I feel like a lot of those guys who never practice for deer season will get crossbows thinking they can take 60 yard shots and will end up wounding a bunch of deer. 

[G-Man]

31 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I've always been against full inclusion, but i also always felt that we should allow those that are above the age of 60 to be able to use them during bow season. Only reason Im against it is because I feel like a lot of those guys who never practice for deer season will get crossbows thinking they can take 60 yard shots and will end up wounding a bunch of deer. 

They do that with bows now.. 

[Fletch]

I voted full inclusion. I like the choice. I will still use my compound and my crossbow and my shotgun and my muzzleloader.... I like the choice.

 

It always amazes me how many people are so concerned how somebody else harvests a deer. Worry how you get your own lol!

 

My biggest peeve was my son had to sit out hunting with the compound for two years because he was a real small kid and could not handle the weights I felt comfortable with him to hunt with. So a new 14 yo hunter not being able to hunt except the two weeks of crossbow. A good way to loose the young recruits we are trying so hard to gain. He is plenty big enough now, he grew about 10 inches in height this past year lol. But what a loss missing two plus months of hunting opportunity for a 14-15 yo kid.

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

This will probably draw some heat but no one is ever going to convince me otherwise. I believe that most of those against full inclusion are are in the "some one is going to be able to shoot my deer" camp

Sure, that's nothing new. We hear that same sentiment with gun hunters about bowhunters all the time getting first crack at the big bucks and how unfair that is. Hell that's the sentiment that has driven the crossbow craze and their eagerness to shove their way into bow season. That's why everyone wants to elbow their way into bow season. They all want a chance push their way into the early season so they can be the ones that have the first chance at getting "their deer".

But you know, when the muzzleloaders decide they want a piece of the pie (and they will), it will be all these new crossbow hunters that will holler the loudest and be very vocal about excluding them. Welcome aboard fellas to the gang of selfish, exclusionary, elitists as you all enjoyed calling us. Or maybe the outcry won't be as loud because we are moving towards an "anything goes" bow season which may well be what you all really want to happen anyway.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Doc

[bkln]

A string plus arrow/bolt...that's archery no matter how you slice it. How did they call all people shooting x-bows back in the Vikings days? Oh yeah, archers...

Not sure what's the fuss about, let people decide what they take into the woods. It should be people's call not bureaucrats, just saying... 

[G-Man]

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

Sure, that's nothing new. We hear that same sentiment with gun hunters about bowhunters all the time getting first crack at the big bucks and how unfair that is. Hell that's the sentiment that has driven the crossbow craze and their eagerness to shove their way into bow season. That's why everyone wants to elbow their way into bow season. They all want a chance push their way into the early season so they can be the ones that have the first chance at getting "their deer".

But you know, when the muzzleloaders decide they want a piece of the pie (and they will), it will be all these new crossbow hunters that will holler the loudest and be very vocal about excluding them. Welcome aboard fellas to the gang of selfish, exclusionary, elitists as you all enjoyed calling us. Or maybe the outcry won't be as loud because we are moving towards an "anything goes" bow season which may well be what you all really want to happen anyway.

But from most of the responses her most crossbow owners/users seem to be bow hunters. I count 2 responded that are crossbow only "new hunters" this alone renders your argument invalid. According to you all these crossbow hunters( the majority seem.fo be bow hunters who picked it up and would be out there anyway.

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, G-Man said:

But from most of the responses her most crossbow owners/users seem to be bow hunters. I count 2 responded that are crossbow only "new hunters" this alone renders your argument invalid. According to you all these crossbow hunters( the majority seem.fo be bow hunters who picked it up and would be out there anyway.

I am assuming that you feel that this forum survey is a bona fide scientific study. I am not a statistician or any credible expert on survey taking, but I suspect that most people with that training would probably have a good laugh at our little amateur attempt at a credible survey.....lol. 

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

I am assuming that you feel that this forum survey is a bona fide scientific study. I am not a statistician or any credible expert on survey taking, but I suspect that most people with that training would probably have a good laugh at our little amateur attempt at a credible survey.....lol. 

It's all in the formula..just like Dec report numbers...lol

[Lawdwaz]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

But from most of the responses her most crossbow owners/users seem to be bow hunters. I count 2 responded that are crossbow only "new hunters" this alone renders your argument invalid. According to you all these crossbow hunters( the majority seem.fo be bow hunters who picked it up and would be out there anyway.

Lets say they gave xbow full inclusion.   Then NEXT year muzzleloader hunters wanted to start shooting November 1st.

That'd be cool, right???????

[Just Lucky]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

I am assuming that you feel that this forum survey is a bona fide scientific study. I am not a statistician or any credible expert on survey taking, but I suspect that most people with that training would probably have a good laugh at our little amateur attempt at a credible survey.....lol. 

I personally only know 1 person that wasn't a bow hunter who now crossbow hunts.

I do however believe if full inclusion was to happen, then a few others I know would participate.  Thats ok by me cause not too many will hunt from October 1rst till mid December. If full inclusion was to happen by November 1rst most would have harvested a deer or gave up cause "there isn't any deer."

Hell, after the first week of gun season it becomes like bow season, hardly no one hunting around my area.

[G-Man]

4 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Lets say they gave xbow full inclusion.   Then NEXT year muzzleloader hunters wanted to start shooting November 1st.

That'd be cool, right???????

The x bow is still archery equipment. The Dec goal is to take deer . The crossbow may allow them to do that. ( by upping sucess rates from the miserable low 10's it is now. Muzzleloader is not archery equipment.  If they want a seperate early season they can have one i dont have a problem with it

[Lawdwaz]

5 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The x bow is still archery equipment. The Dec goal is to take deer . The crossbow may allow them to do that. ( by upping sucess rates from the miserable low 10's it is now. Muzzleloader is not archery equipment.  If they want a seperate early season they can have one i dont have a problem with it

On November 1st, what do you think the weapon of choice would be for guys, gals and kids......

ML'r or xbow?

That'd be a dandy way for the DEC to "take deer".

[wolc123]

8 hours ago, moog5050 said:

I am against any further polls on this subject.  

I think a monthly poll would be good, that way we could see what way the  issue is trending with the members.   I only remember one other actual poll on the issue and apparently no one is able to produce any evidence of it.  Does anyone have any explanation as to why that may be ?  I recall about the same 2:1 ratio in favor of full inclusion that we are seeing in this poll right now.   I also like the way this one is worded, for it or against it with no middle ground or gray areas to murky up the water.   

 

[sodfather]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Sure, that's nothing new. We hear that same sentiment with gun hunters about bowhunters all the time getting first crack at the big bucks and how unfair that is. Hell that's the sentiment that has driven the crossbow craze and their eagerness to shove their way into bow season. That's why everyone wants to elbow their way into bow season. They all want a chance push their way into the early season so they can be the ones that have the first chance at getting "their deer".

But you know, when the muzzleloaders decide they want a piece of the pie (and they will), it will be all these new crossbow hunters that will holler the loudest and be very vocal about excluding them. Welcome aboard fellas to the gang of selfish, exclusionary, elitists as you all enjoyed calling us. Or maybe the outcry won't be as loud because we are moving towards an "anything goes" bow season which may well be what you all really want to happen anyway.

I actually agree with a lot of this. I said it before . I picked up bow hunting cause I love shooting . But I could easily complain when shotgun season stops and Muzzy begins.. I have more time off work during that season.. That’s it I’m going to start a thread and say Legislation needs our votes.. 

[G-Man]

20 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

On November 1st, what do you think the weapon of choice would be for guys, gals and kids......

ML'r or xbow?

That'd be a dandy way for the DEC to "take deer".

A seperate season so they would have to use muzzleloader as it's only.legal thing..  and the chances of thay happening in a year is non existent..we can't get archery equipment together for full inclusion in 5 so far.. 

[wolc123]

4 minutes ago, G-Man said:

A seperate season so they would have to use muzzleloader as it's only.legal thing..  and the chances of thay happening in a year is non existent..we can't get archery equipment together for full inclusion in 5 so far.. 

In high hunter pressure areas of the Southern zone, the ML would likely be less effective at controlling antlerless deer numbers than a crossbow, despite it's greater range,  because it's "boom" would tip them off over a much larger area, making more of them go nocturnal quicker.  

Even though I voted yes to full inclusion, I am ok with the way things are right now.   I would not be, if I did not have access to free food and lodging and some good hunting up in the Northern zone.  Up there, I can at least get out for three days in mid-October with the crossbow.   I always switch to the ML over the last 7 days of the season up there, to take advantage of the greater range, but that is a low hunter pressure area where an occasional "boom" has little effect.  I also look forward to a little early-October squirrel and rabbit hunting in the Southern zone this fall, which I would not mess around with if I could hunt deer with my crossbow then.    

I do feel sorry for that sad minority who are so strongly against full inclusion.   You know they are getting upset, when they get irrational and start making stuff up like "30-40 wounded deer with a crossbow for every one with a vertical", or "that little short piece of aluminum shaft I found attached to a broadhead in the deer I killed with my bow's neck had to come from a crossbow".   Most folks would realize that aluminum shafts fell out of favor long before crossbow's got legal in NY.   I killed my last buck with my vertical bow, about 8 years ago, with a jugular vein shot.  It was not intentional, and he would have taken that arrow thru the lungs had he not reared down and back at the sound of my release 25 yards away.   That is my favorite thing about the crossbow - no string jump whatsoever shooting at completely relaxed deer.   It is hard to overestimate how much easier it is to hit something that is in the same position when the arrow strikes as it was when it was released.         

[sodfather]

17 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

In high hunter pressure areas of the Southern zone, the ML would likely be less effective at controlling antlerless deer numbers than a crossbow, despite it's greater range,  because it's "boom" would tip them off over a much larger area, making more of them go nocturnal quicker.  

Even though I voted yes to full inclusion, I am ok with the way things are right now.   I would not be, if I did not have access to free food and lodging and some good hunting up in the Northern zone.  Up there, I can at least get out for three days in mid-October with the crossbow.   I always switch to the ML over the last 7 days of the season up there, to take advantage of the greater range, but that is a low hunter pressure area where an occasional "boom" has little effect.  I also look forward to a little early-October squirrel and rabbit hunting in the Southern zone this fall, which I would not mess around with if I could hunt deer with my crossbow then.    

I do feel sorry for that sad minority who are so strongly against full inclusion.   You know they are getting upset, when they get irrational and start making stuff up like "30-40 wounded deer with a crossbow for every one with a vertical", or "that little short piece of aluminum shaft I found attached to a broadhead in the deer I killed with my bow's neck had to come from a crossbow".   Most folks would realize that aluminum shafts fell out of favor long before crossbow's got legal in NY.   I killed my last buck with my vertical bow, about 8 years ago, with a jugular vein shot.  It was not intentional, and he would have taken that arrow thru the lungs had he not reared down and back at the sound of my release 25 yards away.   That is my favorite thing about the crossbow - no string jump whatsoever shooting at completely relaxed deer.   It is hard to overestimate how much easier it is to hit something that is in the same position when the arrow strikes as it was when it was released.         

You are so full of crap my screen even smells after you type..  I showed everyone both ends of that BOLT and was unanimous a crossbow bolt. Then you refused to take a pic of your quiver cause I had the evidence. Keep doing what your doing cause one day one of your families meals that they count on you for will be on my side ... But you will probably just let it walk cause that's what slobs do...

God bless

Edited April 6, 2018 by sodfather

[wolc123]

7 minutes ago, sodfather said:

You are so full of crap my screen even smells after you type.. 

Peace be with you, and I forgive you for the name-calling.

[Nomad]

22 hours ago, Merlot said:

I will avoid the x-bow for as long as I can, but if others want full inclusion, fine and dandy. I personally will keep in shape as long as I can and keep using my "old fashioned" Bowtech compound bow. Dang x-bows are too heavy and a pain in da butt to lug around anyhow. No poppycorn for me...just a glass of Merlot for me...

I agree with all of this , I would much prefer to,use my compound, it’s just lighter ,more mobile . I’ve kept in “shape,”  I can deadlift for reps 100 pounds over my weight , bang out some chin ups ,  use the stair machine with a 45 pound weight vest , work with 80 pounds of gear on .

But my shoulders can’t draw a bow anymore , heck they hurt putting on and taking off a coat , I wish it was just a matter of keeping in shape.

 

[Just Lucky]

10 minutes ago, sodfather said:

You are so full of crap my screen even smells after you type.. 

I agree 100 percent 

[fasteddie]

I enjoy Bow Season over gun season . If Full Inclusion happens , my compounds will collect dust and I will strictly use the crossbow . No more practice . Just shoot a half dozen bolts to check the scope out and I'm all set . 

[DirtTime]

23 hours ago, Cory said:

I'm all in on crossbows! From what I'm told by a dec officer that is a friend of mine is this year they're not going to be any changes the liars in Albany can't come to an agreement. But next year the decision on crossbows will be in the hands of the dec and they will implement the rightful use of crossbows. He also told me the silly rule on #200 draw weight will be lifted also. 

This is sitting on the Governors desk in NYC! Man, I wish people would really understand, Andy doesn't live in Albany, his office is in the NYC area, and I don't believe he's ever lived in or near Albany. Sorry, I'm not trying to detract from my own thread, but do some frikin' homework people! Andy doesn't live upstate! Look at where the bill is at a halt, all it needs is his signature. But, he's to busy looking for ways to ban guns to care about hunting in any way shape or form!

[Hunter007]

To me Crossbows   attrack guys that are into rifle hunting more then bow hunter unless there elderly and just having problems drwaing back there bows anymore .

So I think anyone over 60 should be allowed to use a crossbow if they want .

Not sure about everyone unless the idea is to just get more rifle hunters in the woods .

Really don't think anyone who shoots a bow good would really want  full inclusion or push for it no matter what they may say on a forum

They will be against it or at  least be indifferent to it one way or the other. 

That is why these polls  don't mean much sense  on here .

How do you know who really is a bow hunter or who is a rifle hunter  On the internet ? 

Or how do you know who is a Serious bowhunter ?

Or just a poser?

There's no way to verify what people say on a forum.

That  being said anything that DEC thinks will help the younger generation stay into the sport I am ok with .

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Storm914