DEC Unveils New Deer Management Plan

[G-Man]

3 hours ago, Swamp_bucks said:

That is one thing that should be done.  The majority of the stateland atleast around here can be greatly enhanced.  Its open pines and if it has have a food source it doesn't last them long.  Yes there are pockets of food and cover that will hold deer year long.  However some of the pieces have the ability to hold more deer with a little elbow grease.   

Like I said before they wont make everyone happy and we will just have to wait and see what happens.

They do have plans in place like in hanging bog where they clearcut 50 acre.parcles every year. The patchwork creates great grouse ,deer and turkey habitat. Unfortunately state parks are not in a managemant plan. They have used funds raised from timber cutting to replace culverts and road and trail maintenance.  As for planting a food plot not gonna happen but browse is prefered anyway.

Look for wma to hunt in after opening weekend they are sparcly used. 

[The_Real_TCIII]

They could be waiting for the ground to freeze.  If they stacked it up by the road it's probably going to be hauled away or chipped and then hauled away.

I don't know, it appeared like they just felled them and left them


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[Swamp_bucks]

48 minutes ago, G-Man said:

They do have plans in place like in hanging bog where they clearcut 50 acre.parcles every year. The patchwork creates great grouse ,deer and turkey habitat. Unfortunately state parks are not in a managemant plan. They have used funds raised from timber cutting to replace culverts and road and trail maintenance.  As for planting a food plot not gonna happen but browse is prefered anyway.

Look for wma to hunt in after opening weekend they are sparcly used. 

After thanksgiving week that's what I start to do. I wish they did a clear cut it was a select cut from the looks.   I like that high stem count areas on stateland later and later.  Also get onto borders of private that has corn and other ag fields. 

I didnt mean it to be like a food plot add some food source to supplement for taking out a good chunk of browse. So it has time to rebound.  

[Steuben Jerry]

35 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I don't know, it appeared like they just felled them and left them


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Might have sent the cutters in earlier and then the recovery crew after the ground hardens up a bit. For the logs anyway. The tops will create short term browse and long term cover.

The previous owner logged our place before we bought it. At first I thought he ruined it. I said the land looked raped when I first saw it in the Spring. Left all the tops where they fell.

But I formed that initial view on aesthetics and ease of people-walking. The hunting is at least 2X in quantity and quality post-logging. They logged it about 15 years ago so that secondary stuff is thick with 20 ft high beech tree browse now.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Steuben Jerry

[jasonpalderson]

Guys and gals. I won’t even pretend to know what y’all are going through. Here in KS we have what’s called WIHA walk in hunting area and there’s a lot of it . It’s great. A lot of people think it gets the crap hunted out of it which it actually doesn’t because if you harvest a deer you have to drag it out. No vehicle traffic allowed. The state leases the land from landowners. There are some big deer taken off of it. But you have to be willing to do the work. I’ve carted deer 3/4 of a mile to a mile before. Is it worth it. I think so.


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[E J]

1 minute ago, blackbeltbill said:

      You need only to view my Thread  from back in March in the Hiking  Forum.   In fact it is at the very Top-- Bitternut+ Pignut - 2 Different Hickories.

    I clearly pointed out your misidentification . 

Why are you mucking up this discussion with this crap? Start a new thread if you want to argue with people Bill.

[9jNYstarkOH]

10 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

      You need only to view my Thread  from back in March in the Hiking  Forum.   In fact it is at the very Top-- Bitternut+ Pignut - 2 Different Hickories.

    I clearly pointed out your misidentification . 

Not sure about these nuts but this sure seems like a twig swinging contest.

[SpacemanSpiff]

40 minutes ago, jasonpalderson said:

Guys and gals. I won’t even pretend to know what y’all are going through. Here in KS we have what’s called WIHA walk in hunting area and there’s a lot of it . It’s great. A lot of people think it gets the crap hunted out of it which it actually doesn’t because if you harvest a deer you have to drag it out. No vehicle traffic allowed. The state leases the land from landowners. There are some big deer taken off of it. But you have to be willing to do the work. I’ve carted deer 3/4 of a mile to a mile before. Is it worth it. I think so.


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If you look at land maps in NY vs KS you will see the average acreage owned is significantly less here in NY. Much much smaller tracts available. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison. 

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, blackbeltbill said:

      You need only to view my Thread  from back in March in the Hiking  Forum.   In fact it is at the very Top-- Bitternut+ Pignut - 2 Different Hickories.

    I clearly pointed out your misidentification . 

I dont care.about your hickory tree , the question is why do you feel a 2 week.fall.turkey season is worth hunting but not a 2 week crossbow season that falls during prime rut hunting.. do you comprehend what the question is?? Its not about hickory trees a state away

[G-Man]

Having close stateland around and my own private , the determing factor for deer and heard health is simply habitat.   A plave that is safe , provides sufficient food/ nutrition is the biggest factor for age of a herd.  Unfortunately  we are constantly compared to other states that have short gun seasons, and  far fewer hunters.  Not a apple to apple.comparison.  the best we can do here is create sanctuarys , do an honest accessment of nutrition  and habitat needs and attempt.to limit take on private land within the regulations and permits issued in a wmu.  

Far to many time i hear well there were deer everywhere 10 or 15 or 20 years ago..  ive hunted same spot for years.. the brushy draw you once hunted is now mature timber.  The brushy thucket that was bedding is now grown into pole timber.. deer are creatures of edge and successional habitat. It take work and a good management plan to get the most out of your property.. i am.always accessing what a properrt lacks and try to address it 

.many times its a long range solution sucj as thermal winter cover. It can  be done it just take some work and you may need to recruit help if your on a budget , if this means opening your land to others for manpower  so be it, set some rules or guidelines and do it!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:29 AM, Belo said:

very well said Chris. Honest and true. The only point I'd add on to what you said is with regard to challenge. Archery was meant to be a challenge. It was never intended to be easy. Yes technology has improved over the decades, but fundamentally the hunter still chooses his or her challenge. The obvious reply to this is "well let me choose to use a crossbow" and that's a fair counter, if it wasn't for the type and style of hunting being so drastically different.

I think many of us anti crossbow guys know it's a matter of time. I've said 100 times though, keep it the way it is and make it easier for elderly and disabled. The season is fine with me today, even if my nose twitches when i see those crossbow selfies in the "live from the woods" thread

Ok, now you lured me in lol. 
 

honest question, what do you mean by saying that the type and style of hunting is so different between a crossbow and a vertical bow?
 

They are essentially the same. Still have to get within the same approximate range, still have to take the same type of shot, etc etc. 

[Five Seasons]

48 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Ok, now you lured me in lol. 
 

honest question, what do you mean by saying that the type and style of hunting is so different between a crossbow and a vertical bow?
 

They are essentially the same. Still have to get within the same approximate range, still have to take the same type of shot, etc etc. 

I don't think either of those are true.

Range is greater with a crossbow and that's a fact.

You don't need to stand and draw with a crossbow, thereby reducing movement and the chance of getting busted.

A scope allows you to more easily pickup up on twigs and branches that could deflect your bolt.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not nearly energized enough to have the same crossbow debate we've had a 100 times. But there is a clear advantage to hunting with one, or we wouldn't be such a proponent for allowing it for the elderly and disabled. That alone is a good barometer. 

[Five Seasons]

PS I formally request that this topic be used to discuss deer hunting regulations by those that actually deer hunt and not types of trees and turkey hunting or kung fu.

[Marion]

PS I formally request that this topic be used to discuss deer hunting regulations by those that actually deer hunt and not types of trees and turkey hunting or kung fu.

I enjoy Ka Rah Tay!

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[Marion]

I am taking Students Jerkman. No Charge.

I need lessons on public land turkey killing! If you're offering I'd gladly sign up for a few hunts together. I'll buy the celebratory beers after we have some success!

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[SteveB]

41 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

I am taking Students Jerkman. No Charge.

Still too expensive

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

I don't think either of those are true.

Range is greater with a crossbow and that's a fact.

You don't need to stand and draw with a crossbow, thereby reducing movement and the chance of getting busted.

A scope allows you to more easily pickup up on twigs and branches that could deflect your bolt.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not nearly energized enough to have the same crossbow debate we've had a 100 times. But there is a clear advantage to hunting with one, or we wouldn't be such a proponent for allowing it for the elderly and disabled. That alone is a good barometer. 

Yeah we’ve been through this before, and I’m not looking to argue, but speaking from experience with both, you hunt with them the same way. Range is effectively the same in 95% of hunting situations. I’ve killed multiple deer with my bow at 40-45 yards. Furthest shot with my crossbow so far has been 30 yards. 
 

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Yeah we’ve been through this before, and I’m not looking to argue, but speaking from experience with both, you hunt with them the same way. Range is effectively the same in 95% of hunting situations. I’ve killed multiple deer with my bow at 40-45 yards. Furthest shot with my crossbow so far has been 30 yards. 
 

my guess is that you practice extensively at 45 with your bow. I'm a pretty good archer and wouldn't take that shot. Meanwhile, Bill could pick up a crossbow at dicks and shoot bulls at 45 within a few hours or less. As others have stated, that brings a different breed into the deer woods. 

[Steuben Jerry]

31 minutes ago, Belo said:

my guess is that you practice extensively at 45 with your bow. I'm a pretty good archer and wouldn't take that shot. Meanwhile, Bill could pick up a crossbow at dicks and shoot bulls at 45 within a few hours or less. As others have stated, that brings a different breed into the deer woods. 

Hopefully less wounded deer.

[Five Seasons]

10 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

Hopefully less wounded deer.

I don't really buy that either. It takes some dedication to consistently hunt whitetails year after year with the a bow. The guys that think it's easy quickly find that it's not and give up. Those that stick with it are pretty dedicated and committed to doing the right thing, and of course even then the unfortunate happens. To think former gun only hunters picking up a crossbow would lead to less wounding is a little naïve. This hunter doesn't replace the bowhunter he's just in addition too him.

[Trial153]

Most crossbows users have and had no intrest in archery or bow hunting until we gave them a weapon that functions and resembles a firearm in scope and function. The same guys would be out during the archery with there 06s if it were legal.

They have no place during archery seasons. If you want to participate and bow hunt, use a bow no one is stopping you

[Steuben Jerry]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

I don't really buy that either. It takes some dedication to consistently hunt whitetails year after year with the a bow. The guys that think it's easy quickly find that it's not and give up. Those that stick with it are pretty dedicated and committed to doing the right thing, and of course even then the unfortunate happens. To think former gun only hunters picking up a crossbow would lead to less wounding is a little naïve. This hunter doesn't replace the bowhunter he's just in addition too him.

I meant in reference of your example of Bill shooting bullseyes in a short time. Looking for a silver lining in the newbie scenario.

[chrisw]

I don't really buy that either. It takes some dedication to consistently hunt whitetails year after year with the a bow. The guys that think it's easy quickly find that it's not and give up. Those that stick with it are pretty dedicated and committed to doing the right thing, and of course even then the unfortunate happens. To think former gun only hunters picking up a crossbow would lead to less wounding is a little naïve. This hunter doesn't replace the bowhunter he's just in addition too him.

I agree. Going off the logic that crossbows will lead to less wounded deer would lead you to believe then guns would even further reduce wounded deer and that's definitely not the case. Most wounded deer in my opinion speak to the hunters actions, not the implement used.

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[steve863]

5 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Most crossbows users have and had no intrest in archery or bow hunting until we gave them a weapon that functions and resembles a firearm in scope and function. The same guys would be out during the archery with there 06s if it were legal.

They have no place during archery seasons. If you want to participate and bow hunt, use a bow no one is stopping you

 

I have zero interest in crossbows, but if made legal I'd be the first guy out there with the 06 during archery season and wouldn't apologize to anyone for it.  I get tired listening to bow hunters thinking that they somehow have better ethics and sportsmanship.  They are legends in their own minds and that's about it in my opinion.  

[Jeremy K]

20 minutes ago, steve863 said:

 

I have zero interest in crossbows, but if made legal I'd be the first guy out there with the 06 during archery season and wouldn't apologize to anyone for it.  I get tired listening to bow hunters thinking that they somehow have better ethics and sportsmanship.  They are legends in their own minds and that's about it in my opinion.  

Did a bowhunter steal your dog or something ?