Ladder Treestand use and height

[hueyjazz]

I primarily tree stand hunt or hunt atop a ridge shooting across to another ridge.  I've never had one lick of luck stalking in my woods.  Good luck being quiet no matter how much a twinkle toes you are.  And I abhor deer drives.  Somehow shooting towards people walking towards you doesn't work for me.  Getting a shot at a running deer doesn't do well for shot placement.  I rarely shoot twice and never three times.   I figure when I hear five shots, it's a drive.  Not really sure what the fifth shot is at but to each their own.  I know a lot of deer are taken this way.

I only use ladder stands because they are so easy to move.  Any permanent stand is going to lose it's effectiveness over time.  Or at least for the bigger and smarter bucks.  I own my own land a top a mountain and I'm quite friendly with neighbors of surrounding land.  They also hunt.  We have agreements in place that we know where each other is and do mutual aid should one need help tracking, dragging or whatever.  But I hunt alone by preference.

Stand placement is decided a lot during non-season during snow periods where I back woods ski following deer tracks.  Where they cross and amount of travel.  I also own several mature oak trees so acorn production is good.  No farms around here.  I put up multiple stands and move between them by evidence I see on game cameras.   Strategy has been successful.  I'm in 9P where deer aren't plentiful and doe permits are gold.  You need two preference points to even have a chance. 

It seems to me ladder tree stands are being sold higher and higher.  I've seen some as high as 20'  I'm aware that's the length of ladder and not actual platform height when in use.   Why would you ever want to shoot at that steep an angle?  Your shoots would be limited unless the height is overcoming some other aspect of the terrain.  I've been hunting out of 15' stand and part of that is overcoming terrain but now that I've been shooting X-bow too I think I want to go lower. 

For sake of conversation, assume the terrain is fairly flat.  In your opinion, how low is too low to still have the advantages of the stand.  That being, avoiding detection of sight, smell and overcoming terrain.  Driving around I see quite a few permanent stands around 8' but they are fully enclosed.  I know there're ground stands fully enclosed but that just isn't going to work in my area.  And oh, I really don't like small spaces that are fully enclosed.  I have a tendency to make them bigger.

[Robhuntandfish]

I have several ladder stands that I have taken the bottom ladder off and are 9 ft. But I am.sure to tuck them in good with lots of cover. And often put them at ambush spots where they won't know I am there til it's too late. 

[Hock3y24]

Hang on stands are far easier to move if you have a linesman’s belt and ascender. I only gun hunt out of ladders and am not buying any new ones, I buy the 4 pack of stick sections from dicks and hangons. Minimum I go is 16 ft up to 22 usually.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Hock3y24

[ny hunter]

We have 3 up and 2 have the bottom ladder off........My son hunts from them...I stay on the ground myself...

[wolc123]

I no longer have any stands higher than 8 ft.  Lots of rookies and inexperienced hunters tend to go up real high, to make up for the lack of experience and know-how.  You will find that the longer you hunt, the easier it gets to kill deer from the ground, or at least closer to it.

 Both of my southern-zone locations are as flat as a pancake.  In that situation, I am most comfortable hunting, when I am 6 to 8 feet above ground level.   That is high enough to get me out of the crossfire, from shots by neighbors, and to let the ground act as a back-stop for my own shots.   Comfort and safety are the primary concerns with keeping the stands that low.  Like yourself, I am not comfortable hunting from the ground in areas high hunter density due to a few "close-calls", when I was on the receiving end of some bad shots by neighbors.  

I am even more concerned with where my own shots end up and getting a bit off the ground eliminates those concerns.   Slightly more than half of my kills have been "one-shot" deals, but I am not afraid to empty the magazine if need be.   Bullets or arrows are cheap compared to the value of venison.   

Except for a couple of hang-on stands, all of my ladder types and raised blinds have three foot high walls that are sided with weathered barn wood.   That three foot high wall does three things.  The most important is cover, so that I can get away with some movement.   That is very important down low.   Secondary functions are: gun or crossbow rest, and acts as a safety rail.  

You are mistaken in your belief that mature bucks can not be taken from permanent stands that have been in place for a long time.  Check out the first buck in last season's crossbow harvest thread, for some proof of that.   That particular 3.5 year old 8-point was killed from the 7 ft high upper deck (with a 3-ft barn wood wall) of a big 2-story blind, that had been in place for 15 seasons.  A 2.5 year old buck was taken from the same spot 3 years before that, and another 3.5 (probably my heaviest buck ever) was taken from a similar two-story upper deck at another location in 2017.  That blind had been in place 10 seasons.       

      

I  

Edited January 4, 2020 by wolc123

[ncountry]

43 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I no longer have any stands higher than 8 ft.  Lots of rookies and inexperienced hunters tend to go up real high, to make up for the lack of experience and know-how.  You will find that the longer you hunt, the easier it gets to kill deer from the ground, or at least closer to it.

Lol.. . Not due to inexperience or skill...I find myself 20 -30 feet in the air often when hunting an open woods with little cover. If you are comfortable  that high, your odds of being busted are much lower.  I still would rather be 12' up in the middle of a cedar tree if I can find one..lol... In my early years of hunting I killed most of my deer from the ground(usually sitting on a pail)

On the average I'm not fond of a stand in the 6-10' range. Unless you are covered up real well or dead still you are right in the deer's line of sight or peripheral vision and might be better off on the ground.

[wolc123]

52 minutes ago, ncountry said:

 

On the average I'm not fond of a stand in the 6-10' range. Unless you are covered up real well or dead still you are right in the deer's line of sight or peripheral vision and might be better off on the ground.

With a bow, you make a good point.  A gun or crossbow is a whole different deal however, because no sudden "draw" motion is necessary.  This year's crossbow  buck had me dead to rights for sure.  He seemed to have some concern over that blind that had been there so many years.  I am sure that he saw my head and shoulders, sticking out over the 3 ft wall, before I saw him.  My feet were 7 ft off the ground on the upper deck.  He was about 60 yards away and staring right at me, across an open field.  We had locked eye-contact and I was literally afraid to blink.

The stare-down lasted what seemed like a half hour.  I blinked and he kept staring.  Finally, he lowered his head and started walking closer.  As he did that, I started moving my head down towards my scope in super slow motion.  The crossbow was already up on the 3 foot wall and pointed in the right direction.  I got my head down to it just as he entered the scopes field of view.  He was now broadside, less than 20 yards away and the only thing I needed to move was my trigger finger.  He never had a clue what hit him.        

Edited January 4, 2020 by wolc123

[GreeneHunter]

I use a Ladder Stand and its at 15 feet but If I thought about it when I bought it 7-8 years ago I would have bought another 5 foot section , I'd prefer it was higher !

[grampy]

Most our ladder stands only have two sections of ladder on them and are only 8 or 9 feet up. Some the full 15 feet high. Also have some with only 1 section on, and hidden in hemlocks or pines where being lower offers a clearer shot. 

I'm more comfortable, and successful from the ground. But if I do hunt a ladder stand, I prefer to keep em as low as possible. As long as they are hidden well, I don't think there is an advantage in going higher, for me anyways. As long as they are placed properly.

[doebuck1234]

13 minutes ago, grampy said:

Most our ladder stands only have two sections of ladder on them and are only 8 or 9 feet up. Some the full 15 feet high. Also have some with only 1 section on, and hidden in hemlocks or pines where being lower offers a clearer shot. 

I'm more comfortable, and successful from the ground. But if I do hunt a ladder stand, I prefer to keep em as low as possible. As long as they are hidden well, I don't think there is an advantage in going higher, for me anyways. As long as they are placed properly.

This^^^.have 3 ladders that are full 15 and other are shorter,which i prefer.a well hidden short stand as others have said seem to be ideal!

[turkeyfeathers]

I’m afraid of heights 

[grampy]

I really like that seat Jay! Where did you get it? Looks comfortable.

[nyslowhand]

Lot of confusion over the height of ladder stands comes from the mfger's spec'ed height. Some are to platform, while many are to the shooting rail. Wish they'd all get their $hit together and advertise height to the platform, only!

Lot of different terrain, vegetation, sight of view and personal preferences regarding stand height. If you prefer sitting on a bucket or up ~25' & are successful - No one should criticize your choices!

Edited January 5, 2020 by nyslowhand

[rob-c]

I base mine on cover , for  bow and well rifle.  I had a 10 ft stand in a 18 ft pine tree and killed lots of deer out of it. I build my own ladder stands and have built some 18 feet  or 14 ft to the platform, just depends on the  cover in the trees I want to put them In. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by rob-c

[nyslowhand]

^^^^ yeah, terrain and also background cover as well, if that's what you're referring to.

[rob-c]

25 minutes ago, nyslowhand said:

^^^^ yeah, terrain and also background cover as well, if that's what you're referring to.

Back ground cover is paramount. 

[genesee_mohican]

I'd want a very wide tree or a lot of background cover if I were to hang a climber. I own one and it's set in a thick Norway spruce tree with lots of thick lower limbs. I have a 17' ladder stand. Once in place, they are fairly safe, but I'd rather be 20-25 ft up in a hang on to avoid detection on the public land I hunt.

Picking a tree with multiple limbs and some background cover to break up one's silhouette and allow for drawing or movement to get in place for a shot without being bused is the key, regardless of height.

 

[nyslowhand]

Learn from our mistakes,  huh!??! I've s/u ladder stands in what I thought were ideal travel route intersections .... and then the leaves fell off the trees.

Yeah, ideally I also try to choose a tree whose width is as wide as my shoulders when I'm up 15-18'. A big tree where you want it to be is almost an impossible combo, at times!!

[wolc123]

10 hours ago, grampy said:

I really like that seat Jay! Where did you get it? Looks comfortable.

In areas of low hunter density (like most of the northern zone), this is my favorite hunting seat.  It is super comfortable and you can shoot 360 degrees around relatively easy (biggest drawback to the one Jay posted that I see is that you can not do that).  The only problem I found with the "tree hammock" is that it is bad in the rain because it fills up with water that runs off the tree, leaving you with a wet behind.   

The "tree hammock" seat is light and stows very compact, making it easy to carry.  It is also quick to set up and take down.   There are several manufacturers and cost is about $ 30.

[G-Man]

The problem with ladders are your height options are limited by legnth of ladder sections. Impossible so set at 13 ft  or 8 ft if sections are 5 ft, even harder to fit into gap between limb whirls onna tree as they seem too be below or above stand height attachment points.. You then are limited by tree shapes or lean.. though ease of climbing is better than a stick most are designed to be shot out of while sitting. Stand up and your 18 in or more away from the tree. Skirting helps but a surrounding rail can be a hindrance in shooting a bow at closer ranges.  

I still have yet to spook a deer while drawing( easily avoided by waiting till its behind a tree or looking away) it's the moving into position that is the hard part. Made harder by safety rails on ladders and non fold up seats. Also a large figure 18 in from a tree trunk hovering in space seems unnatural to a deer I believe. 

[Nomad]

I’m all ladders ,15-18 footers , some pretty big ones. Mine have seats that flip,up I can have my back right against the trunk  if I wanted to . Most of mine are on telephone pole type trees just the way it is .

The height difference between the entry and exit hole of my xbow buck this year was a couple inches , I don’t shoot a deer with bow or xbow more then 20 yards  and are most under that  .

Heres my most hidden ladder , I killed two bucks out of it this year , could do that every year out of it , if I always sat there .

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, G-Man said:

The problem with ladders are your height options are limited by legnth of ladder sections. Impossible so set at 13 ft  or 8 ft if sections are 5 ft, even harder to fit into gap between limb whirls onna tree as they seem too be below or above stand height attachment points.

What I have done in that situation is to remove the lower section (usually about 8 ft long).   That makes a nice camoflaged ladder to use somewhere else (actually is what I now use to get up to the second deck of the two-story blind that I killed my crossbow buck out of last season).   Removing 8 ft, left the metal ladder stand platform a little too low at about 5 ft.  The situation was easily corrected with a ladder extension made from treated wood 2x4's, and attached to the bottom with (4) metal u-clamps.   Now the ladder stand is at the near-perfect (for me) 8 ft height.  The wood extension can be made to any height necessary.   Another option would be to cut a part off the lower section with a hacksaw or torch.   

[Jeremy K]

8 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

What I have done in that situation is to remove the lower section (usually about 8 ft long).   That makes a nice camoflaged ladder to use somewhere else (actually is what I now use to get up to the second deck of the two-story blind that I killed my crossbow buck out of last season).   Removing 8 ft, left the metal ladder stand platform a little too low at about 5 ft.  The situation was easily corrected with a ladder extension made from treated wood 2x4's, and attached to the bottom with (4) metal u-clamps.   Now the ladder stand is at the near-perfect (for me) 8 ft height.  The wood extension can be made to any height necessary.   Another option would be to cut a part off the lower section with a hacksaw or torch.   

wood extension Sounds safe

[Nomad]

Woods fine, There is a ladder from a stand we made 25 years ago still leaning up against a tree ,I d use it today with little worries . Pressure treated and carriage  bolts .  Is it the U bolts ? 

[helmut in the bush]

10 minutes ago, Nomad said:

I’m all ladders ,15-18 footers , some pretty big ones. Mine have seats that flip,up I can have my back right against the trunk  if I wanted to . Most of mine are on telephone pole type trees just the way it is .

The height difference between the entry and exit hole of my xbow buck this year was a couple inches , I don’t shoot a deer with bow or xbow more then 20 yards  and are most under that  .

Heres my most hidden ladder , I killed two bucks out of it this year , could do that every year out of it , if I always sat there .

Perfect tree for a stand, the triple tree breaks up your silhouette