DEC Unveils New Deer Management Plan

[Steuben Jerry]

26 minutes ago, SpacemanSpiff said:

I agree 100%. They could pay all the taxes on the entire farm and send me on an alaskan vacation, still wouldn’t allow it. 

There are probably a lot of working farms without a lot of hunters that may be interested in something like this. But leasing probably pays more than the state would allow for tax breaks. 

[mlammerhirt]

Leasing also allows the property owner to control the people who enter their property. Opening it to the public can cause a huge mess......imagine if you had a an all out brawl in your back pasture one day. Farmers are to busy to deal with that crap.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[steve863]

14 hours ago, JimboCNY said:

so for those of you that own land....how big would the tax break have to be to allow public hunting?

 

Probably not enough to buy you and your family a nice dinner at a restaurant.  Cuomo is crying that the state is broke after COVID so does anyone really think they would be giving taxpayers a big break for allowing hunting?  No way.  It would be chump change.

 

 

 

 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, SpacemanSpiff said:

I agree 100%. They could pay all the taxes on the entire farm and send me on an alaskan vacation, still wouldn’t allow it. 

 

1 hour ago, Steuben Jerry said:

We own our land so we can hunt it, ride ATV's, harvest firewood etc. I wouldn't be swayed by money (tax breaks) in exchange for having strangers in our woods.

 

you 2 aren't the target for this law. It's the non-hunter summer home owner, the old widowed lady that owns a farm, the farmer haha. What really needs to be added to this is some liability forgiveness. I've been denied more than once for fear the landowner thought they could be sued if I was hurt. Even with insurance and all that, the state is a legal nightmare sometimes and they could make it much easier to get boots on the ground. Heck, many of those land owners might already have "public" access and not even know it. Give them a few hundred off their taxes in exchange for hunter satisfaction and population control seems fair to me. 

[SpacemanSpiff]

5 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

you 2 aren't the target for this law. It's the non-hunter summer home owner, the old widowed lady that owns a farm, the farmer haha. What really needs to be added to this is some liability forgiveness. I've been denied more than once for fear the landowner thought they could be sued if I was hurt. Even with insurance and all that, the state is a legal nightmare sometimes and they could make it much easier to get boots on the ground. Heck, many of those land owners might already have "public" access and not even know it. Give them a few hundred off their taxes in exchange for hunter satisfaction and population control seems fair to me. 

Good point. 

[Trial153]

There are several states that have successful block/ walk in areas administered by their DNR that allow public access to hunt on private property. Some states actually lease the land for a predetermined time.
We arent reinventing the wheel with this. If there is money in the budget for public access this a workable solution.
However one can also argue that funds for a program like this should be used for the enhancement of public land that the state in fact owns.
With the exception of Montana and SD you tend to see private walk in areas for public access in states that have very little public land.

[Five Seasons]

1 minute ago, Trial153 said:

There are several states that have successful block/ walk in areas administered by their DNR that allow public access to hunt on private property. Some states actually lease the land for a predetermined time.
We arent reinventing the wheel with this. If there is money in the budget for public access this a workable solution.
However one can also argue that funds for a program like this should be used for the enhancement of public land that the state in fact owns.
With the exception of Montana and SD you tend to see private walk in areas for public access in states that have very little public land.

I don't disagree with your comment. It's a tricky situation. Take someone who lives in Rochester, NY for example. Not a ton of good public hunting land. So selfishly I'd rather see new land access opened up then a boat launch repaired near Albany.

My family also has land in the Adirondacks surrounded by more public land then anybody knows what to do with and I put out trail cameras every year and only capture a few deer. A lot of our NY public land data is skewed by the mountains which hold deer for sure, but nothing like the population downstate. 

[Trial153]

I don't disagree with your comment. It's a tricky situation. Take someone who lives in Rochester, NY for example. Not a ton of good public hunting land. So selfishly I'd rather see new land access opened up then a boat launch repaired near Albany.
My family also has land in the Adirondacks surrounded by more public land then anybody knows what to do with and I put out trail cameras every year and only capture a few deer. A lot of our NY public land data is skewed by the mountains which hold deer for sure, but nothing like the population downstate. 

No doubt there are several variables involved. I was giving examples to illustrate that that has been going on successfully for decades in other states.
By all means needs to be administered with public's needs and location taking into consideration.
It would make no sense to lease / open private land say in the catskill park with its already ample public access. However like you pointed it it may make sense in an area that no little to no public land.

[stubborn1VT]

The one buck rule went into effect in VT this year.  We may see slightly bigger bucks, but for me it just means less hunting opportunity.  It won't fix the buck/doe ratio.  It won't make much difference in the age structure.  I won't claim to know what the impact would be in NY.  

I pad for a rifle season tag and had to sit out rifle season, but at least the state got their money first.  G-man is absolutely correct that a very small percentage kill 2 bucks  The last harvest numbers I looked at show that the new regs could save 1400+ bucks from being killed.  Big deal.  

We just went to full inclusion for xbows too.  I was against that.  I don't know what their impact was.  With Covid I didn't get out and see as many people and hear as many stories as usual.  Our kill did go up, but the state also gave everyone 3 doe tags.  I agree that xbows do seem to draw a certain element.  I use one because of a worn out shoulder and they can be wicked lethal and effective.  My biggest problem is the ranges that people will shoot with a crossbow.  I know a couple people that killed deer at 80-90 yards.  I'm confident at 35 yards.  To each his own, until it affects the rest of us.  

[G-Man]

4 hours ago, blackbeltbill said:

  You just did get sucked into it- willingly. And you made it personal- willingly. 2 contradictions already.

  I am not Shaming anyone. I am speaking my mind.That is one reason this site is here.

  No interest in Hunting otherwise? Then how did, I take those near 800 Pheasants. Feel free to check my Pheasant Journal.  And at least 150 Woodcocks in an area that has few of them.

    The more Mountain Bikers + Hikers-- the Better. Good Public Hunters develop the Knowledge to deal with it. 

   No Rifles allowed at Stewart- the Airport is close by..

    Stewart is just 1 of 3 Public areas, I hunt in NY. AND, I have 3 Public areas in NJ.

    Since, I have little interest in Deer hunting, I don't care to hunt Pressured deer later with the CrossBow.

    However if CrossBow is included on the Early Archery opener- hey, I have a chance.  

   Sure, I want it easy-who doesn't. I would like to take Buck #1 someday.

   And Spring Turkey Hunters want it easy too. Problem is it might take 15 years+ to put all the pieces to the puzzle together. You would be surprised how many people start contacting me starting in March .  

    

I dont understand, you. Go all out for the shortened 2 week fall turkey season, can currently use crossbow during the best 2 weeks of rut , but wont consider it unless its in whole season. That logic would mean you shouldnt fall turkey hunt unless the season was put back to oct 1 as it once was..  this isnt an attack i just dont see a difference logically. 

[moog5050]

3 hours ago, stubborn1VT said:

The one buck rule went into effect in VT this year.  We may see slightly bigger bucks, but for me it just means less hunting opportunity.  It won't fix the buck/doe ratio.  It won't make much difference in the age structure.  I won't claim to know what the impact would be in NY.  

I pad for a rifle season tag and had to sit out rifle season, but at least the state got their money first.  G-man is absolutely correct that a very small percentage kill 2 bucks  The last harvest numbers I looked at show that the new regs could save 1400+ bucks from being killed.  Big deal.  

We just went to full inclusion for xbows too.  I was against that.  I don't know what their impact was.  With Covid I didn't get out and see as many people and hear as many stories as usual.  Our kill did go up, but the state also gave everyone 3 doe tags.  I agree that xbows do seem to draw a certain element.  I use one because of a worn out shoulder and they can be wicked lethal and effective.  My biggest problem is the ranges that people will shoot with a crossbow.  I know a couple people that killed deer at 80-90 yards.  I'm confident at 35 yards.  To each his own, until it affects the rest of us.  

I would be bummed if NY went to one buck rule.  In fact,  I would much prefer two buck tags to be used in any season.  Admittedly that is because I will often see two good shooters in bow, at least more often than seeing one in regular season and one in bow.  I don't agree with the fairness argument as anyone that wants can hunt archery and ML seasons, just do the course and learn to hunt with a bow or even crossbow.

[stubborn1VT]

5 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

I would be bummed if NY went to one buck rule.  In fact,  I would much prefer two buck tags to be used in any season.  Admittedly that is because I will often see two good shooters in bow, at least more often than seeing one in regular season and one in bow.  I don't agree with the fairness argument as anyone that wants can hunt archery and ML seasons, just do the course and learn to hunt with a bow or even crossbow.

One buck is a downer for me.  The only way I could go out during rifle season was to hunt coyotes and bear.  I get the argument that if I need meat I can shoot a doe, but there is no doe killing during our 16 day rifle season.  Those days are my holidays.  I plan my year around them.  It's not that I need to kill a second buck, but I do need to hunt for one.  It doesn't seem fair to take my money and then force me to hunt out of state.  I realize there are other considerations than personal feelings and histories, but taking away hunter opportunity seems wrong to me. 

Also, everyone I know agrees that deer numbers are down.  Given what I've seen for deer, I don't want to shoot a doe.  So if I can't shoot a buck and I can't bring myself to shoot a doe, then I am basically done hunting already.  I'm enjoying watching deer in my food plot at the house, but it's not the same.  

And don't even get me started on the state's attempt to "balance the buck/doe ratio.  All you have to do is take an online archery course and you can buy 3 doe tags over the counter that are good for anywhere in the state and fill them with a crossbow. Oh boy.  

One buck may be fine for growing mega giants in places like Iowa or Stueben, but for most places it's just a needless regulation that limits successful hunters.

[Swamp_bucks]

4 hours ago, Trial153 said:

However one can also argue that funds for a program like this should be used for the enhancement of public land that the state in fact own.

That is one thing that should be done.  The majority of the stateland atleast around here can be greatly enhanced.  Its open pines and if it has have a food source it doesn't last them long.  Yes there are pockets of food and cover that will hold deer year long.  However some of the pieces have the ability to hold more deer with a little elbow grease.   

Like I said before they wont make everyone happy and we will just have to wait and see what happens.

[Just Lucky]

The one buck rule makes people feel it would be easier to kill a mature buck, but also lessens the trophy,  just like bow hunter elites feel about crossbow or gun. 

I like the way ny is currently with plenty of opportunities and different seasons. 

If any part of the season was extended I would prefer later in winter over September. 

[The_Real_TCIII]

6 minutes ago, Swamp_bucks said:

That is one thing that should be done.  The majority of the stateland atleast around here can be greatly enhanced.  Its open pines and if it has have a food source it doesn't last them long.  Yes there are pockets of food and cover that will hold deer year long.  However some of the pieces have the ability to hold more deer with a little elbow grease.   

Like I said before they wont make everyone happy and we will just have to wait and see what happens.

@Biz-R-OWorld and I walked some state land last weekend and they cut down probably 50% of the trees and just left them lay. The place was a mess. Good deer cover but really difficult to walk and it looked like a lot of money just left to rot.

[Nomad]

19 hours ago, JimboCNY said:

so for those of you that own land....how big would the tax break have to be to allow public hunting?

Public as in anyone can come on , then several times what we pay in taxes on it . 116 acres we pay about $2,200 a year ,but we rent it to a farm ,their rent pays all the taxes and a profit . They never call and complain , they maintain the drainages , and the check arrives on time .

I once gave permission to a guy who lived next to,our land to put ONE stand in the hedgerow behind his house , as I get it, he wants to hunt at “ home “ once in awhile . Told him don’t shoot young bucks, no driving or walking around  and just him .

Next thing my phone is ringing ,it’s  from the homeowners who’s houses run along our land on the OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD , his buddies are driving my one acre wood lot, and shooting at running deer right behind their homes. 
 

Just don’t need the hassle 

[Jeremy K]

11 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Public as in anyone can come on , then several times what we pay in taxes on it . 116 acres we pay about $2,200 a year ,but we rent it to a farm ,their rent pays all the taxes and a profit . They never call and complain , they maintain the drainages , and the check arrives on time .

I once gave permission to a guy who lived next to,our land to put ONE stand in the hedgerow behind his house , as I get it, he wants to hunt at “ home “ once in awhile . Told him don’t shoot young bucks, no driving or walking around  and just him .

Next thing my phone is ringing ,it’s  from the homeowners who’s houses run along our land on the OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD , his buddies are driving my one acre wood lot, and shooting at running deer right behind their homes. 
 

Just don’t need the hassle 

My buddy let a couple young guys hunt his property once late season , him and the wife were taking the dog for a walk out back when they turned a corner and found his dog neck  deep in a gut pile they left in the middle of the walking path , never again. 

[Swamp_bucks]

5 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

@Biz-R-OWorld and I walked some state land last weekend and they cut down probably 50% of the trees and just left them lay. The place was a mess. Good deer cover but really difficult to walk and it looked like a lot of money just left to rot.

They logged a huge chunk of pine on a piece I hunt this year and wrecked a 5 acre beach section getting the trees out. And left a bunch of trees they cut to rot.  Could of easily cleared up the paths and through something down since it's open enough now so the deer have something to eat since they took the young beech out.  Piled the brush throughout the woods for cover for grouse and other small game.   Sure in a couple years it will grow back and have food and cover again.  But you can see 300yards through these pines now in any direction.  All the tops and left over logs are piled 30feet high right next to the road.

[left field]

37 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

@Biz-R-OWorld and I walked some state land last weekend and they cut down probably 50% of the trees and just left them lay. The place was a mess. Good deer cover but really difficult to walk and it looked like a lot of money just left to rot.

Ash? 

[The_Real_TCIII]

5 minutes ago, left field said:

Ash? 

No, oak! and Beech

[stubborn1VT]

14 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

No, oak! and Beech

They could be waiting for the ground to freeze.  If they stacked it up by the road it's probably going to be hauled away or chipped and then hauled away.

[Nomad]

59 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

My buddy let a couple young guys hunt his property once late season , him and the wife were taking the dog for a walk out back when they turned a corner and found his dog neck  deep in a gut pile they left in the middle of the walking path , never again. 

I’ve given anyone who asked permission , frankly it’s open crops ,with a couple hedgerows ,drainage ditches and a small wood lot . The guy who,I,let hang one stand , in a hedgerow ,  I had one of my stands in that same hedgerow!  I try hard to accommodate, but some guys are my tolerance testers .

[SpacemanSpiff]

2 minutes ago, Nomad said:

I’ve given anyone who asked permission , frankly it’s open crops ,with a couple hedgerows ,drainage ditches and a small wood lot . The guy who,I,let hang one stand , in a hedgerow ,  I had one of my stands in that same hedgerow!  I try hard to accommodate, but some guys are my tolerance testers .

You have more patience and confidence than I!

[jperch]

I hunt a family camp near Ossian, NY during archery season that has a lot of adjacent state land.  Lots of beautiful mixed hardwoods, tons of acorns this year.  I believe the state bids out parcels for logging and they have conditions that must be followed.  There was one area that  was full of mature locust trees with little deer activity.  It was logged and most of the tops left where they lay.  We called it the "clear cut" and looked messy, and was very difficult to walk through.  It became a deer mecca and is now a much more diverse woods.  I think a short term mess is worth a long time gain.  There are pine state lands nearby that are full of low value pole trees that could use the same treatment.  By the way, I gave up gun hunting this area because the place is overrun with drivers on opening day and all weekends.  Just not peaceful or fun for me.

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, blackbeltbill said:

    And, I often disagree with what you post. It was not too long back that you thought a picture of a Pignut Hickory was in fact a more common Bitternut Hickory.   And you quoted me on it. I quickly proved that you were wrong with 1 Tree Book that, I Hike with. You were fit to be tied after that.

Ypu didnt explain your logic at all.  As for the hickory i am.nor ever was fit to be  tied ,just trying to understand your logic when xbow has best 2 weeks for season now and you dont think twice about a 2 week Turkey season