Gender questions...

[Northcountryman]

6 minutes ago, knehrke said:

And you don't have to be gender queer to make a splash playing sports in a league intended for participants from the opposite sex. Women have petitioned and won the right to compete in guy's leagues for years. 

There is a difference though: girls petitioning and then participating in all boys sports league results in a greater challenge for them due to their anatomical disadvantages (i.e., smaller , weaker slower on average , etc.).  For a guy the reverse is true as it  creates a distinct advantage  for him (or her...whatever!!). 

[Splitear]

55 minutes ago, knehrke said:

You know, from my conversations with young folks, it seems like this is much less an issue to them than it is to us. 

And you don't have to be gender queer to make a splash playing sports in a league intended for participants from the opposite sex. Women have petitioned and won the right to compete in guy's leagues for years. 

That having been said, I do think that sports should be stratified based on sex, not gender. And I suspect that the example Grouse has repeatedly brought forward is the exception rather than the rule. There's always going to be somebody who wants to make a point, but think about it...when you play sports, don't you want to be challenged? How would it feel to play t-ball with  kindergardeners? You could be a big shot. But who would want to? I got to think that it's the same for gender queer folks. After all, they're just people looking to be comfortable with themselves, same as everybody else.

I'll echo your point regarding young people. A few years ago I took a 4-H Youth to State Fair who identified as male. I obviously had conversations with their parents, county and state staff. We all agreed to let the youth stay in the boys dorm since that is how they identified. 

As the lead educator and chaperone for my county I expected to at least have to field a few questions or comments from other youth and chaperones (this is a statewide event). I never heard a peep, and they youth had a great experience. They are now a few years older and are a valuable volunteer in our program. 

I think it's just human nature in that it’s hard to get our minds around things that are outside of long held "norms", and that includes myself. I've had to do a lot of learning and reflection in supporting non-gender conforming youth. I've seen that other youth are a lot more open and accepting of "different", and all I can assume is that they have just grown up in a different world that I have. As a youth educator, I just want to do the best I can to create an environment where all of these youth feel cared for and supported. The most important thing that I learned starting off is that "sex" and "gender" aren't always the same thing. 

I understand the divide in the issue, and I'm not in any position to bridge it...but I'm doing the best I can in my own understanding. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Splitear

[fasteddie]

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a biological female gets beat out by two transgenders  and gets 3rd place . 

How about some physically fit person claims to have special needs and beats out all the kids at the Special Olympics ! That would rile some feathers ! 

[Jeremy K]

34 minutes ago, knehrke said:

You know, from my conversations with young folks, it seems like this is much less an issue to them than it is to us. 

And you don't have to be gender queer to make a splash playing sports in a league intended for participants from the opposite sex. Women have petitioned and won the right to compete in guy's leagues for years. 

That having been said, I do think that sports should be stratified based on sex, not gender. And I suspect that the example Grouse has repeatedly brought forward is the exception rather than the rule. There's always going to be somebody who wants to make a point, but think about it...when you play sports, don't you want to be challenged? How would it feel to play t-ball with  kindergardeners? You could be a big shot. But who would want to? I got to think that it's the same for gender queer folks. After all, they're just people looking to be comfortable with themselves, same as everybody else.

Did you conveniently skip over the post i made about 2 different woman getting fractured skulls because some asshole guy decided he was a girl and they let him fight in the woman's division ?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I just spent about an hour on a very boring conference call. While on there I googled transgender college athletes.  It was page after page  of men transitioning to women and competing on the women's' teams or in the women's' sports. There were very few in the first 8 search page results. Now google isn't the end all be all but from that search it sure seems like it's pretty lop sided. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Northcountryman]

29 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I just spent about an hour on a very boring conference call. While on there I googled transgender college athletes.  It was page after page  of men transitioning to women and competing on the women's' teams or in the women's' sports. There were very few in the first 8 search page results. Now google isn't the end all be all but from that search it sure seems like it's pretty lop sided. 

Yeah, to me, I think it all boils down to whether or not your potentially hurting others by the choices youre making; same as anything else, I guess. As I stated earlier in the thread-- and  that which, positionwise, mirrors Splitear's stance-- sexual identity and gender identity are not exactly the same thing.  In the vast majority of people, there is congruency between the two--in other words, your birth sex conforms with your gender identity--so there is no issue.  In a small % of the population, however, they dont and this deviation from the "norm" is the source of all the current controversy. Again, I firmly believe that these individuals that truly and authentically have this "incongruency" are born that way and it is not a choice.  And because it is not  their choice or their fault, they should not be subject to scorn and ridicule by society. 

However, if they are jumping on a bandwagon so to speak, or , engaging in a "fad" (i.e., its cool to be trangender , gendefluid, etc. in our hyper tolerant contemporary society) for attention and status, then shame on them. Also, I'm not sure that kids  possess the level of maturation to "know" for sure that theyre suffering from gender dysphoria and should be indulged to pursue these "feelings" by taking it to the next level (i.e., dressing like a member of the opposite sex, name changes, using the bathroom of the opposite sex, etc.)at such a young age.  From what I've read , their is a greater tendency now, in todays world, for kids to "come out" and say they are transgender, much higher than rational statistics would normally dictate.  Are these kids all truly transgender or are they being encourgaed to identify as such by our hyper-tolerant society? is my question.  If that is the case, then it should stopped IMHO. 

Finally, for those that are TRULY  incongruent in their sexual/gender identities, my position is,  if your a guy that identifies as a girl (or vice versa) , you can be treated as as such in all aspects of normal life EXCEPT  in cases or situations  in which your activity, presence or behavior clealry disadvantages and/or discomforts many, if not most, of your peers.  Examples of this include bathroom usage, participation in sports and, of course,  anything else I may have missed. These exemptions would continue until adulthood--at least to the age of 21 , I guess-- AND FURTHER, until the individual takes the extradinary step of undergoing the hormone therapy AND requisite  sex reassignment surgery, such to the extent that they can now be classified, biologically and anatomically, as a "woman". Once they have completed those steps, all exemptions to their new sexual/gender identity can now be lifted IMHO. This should remove most of the pretenders and wanna bes that "claim" they feel like a woman but are just looking for attention and to "stand out " in a situation which clearly and unfairly constitutes and advantage for them. 

[knehrke]

22 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

Did you conveniently skip over the post i made about 2 different woman getting fractured skulls because some asshole guy decided he was a girl and they let him fight in the woman's division ?

Nope, it wasn't convenience, I purposefully ignored you lol!!

Seriously, though, there are always going to be anecdotes, and given the topic, they can be "big news". But if this is such an issue, then why in all my years of watching sports haven't I noticed it yet? Maybe I'm blind. And maybe it's just not a significant problem - with all due respect to the women who were injured. If you look hard enough, you can find anything on the internet.

Philosophically, I agree with NCM that there should be standards in place to help prevent injury and maintain the integrity of the sport. But you know, guys who want to compete in girls leagues right now can, gender identity nonwithstanding. It happens.

[Jeremy K]

11 minutes ago, knehrke said:

Nope, it wasn't convenience, I purposefully ignored you lol!!

Seriously, though, there are always going to be anecdotes, and given the topic, they can be "big news". But if this is such an issue, then why in all my years of watching sports haven't I noticed it yet? Maybe I'm blind. And maybe it's just not a significant problem - with all due respect to the women who were injured. If you look hard enough, you can find anything on the internet.

Philosophically, I agree with NCM that there should be standards in place to help prevent injury and maintain the integrity of the sport. But you know, guys who want to compete in girls leagues right now can, gender identity nonwithstanding. It happens.

That's what i thought .

[New York Hillbilly]

On 2/18/2021 at 10:13 AM, airedale said:

About all I have to say is this board is turning into a real shithole!!!

Al

Agree! 

[Five Seasons]

On 2/19/2021 at 3:48 PM, knehrke said:

You know, from my conversations with young folks, it seems like this is much less an issue to them than it is to us. 

 

100.

Lot of old men that aren't affected by this have their wives panties in a bunch, and those that are actually impacted couldn't care less.

The issue of women's sports is separate in my opinion and it seems many of us agree that a woman playing in a men's league is not the same as a man playing in a women's league. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have men's and women's sports in the first place. 

[BizCT]

Will they put urinals in the girls bathrooms?

Lots of clubs years ago in NYc had unisex bathrooms. Urinals and stalls.


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[Grouse]

Just one example why NYC is the modern version of Sodom and Gomorrah.  

Edited February 23, 2021 by Grouse

[knehrke]

I applaud you for your tolerance and understanding. I'm sure God will smite the wicked soon.

[Nomad]

8 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

Lots of clubs years ago in NYc had unisex bathrooms. Urinals and stalls.


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There are no, men’s and women’s bathrooms in any firehouse where I worked . Same for bunk rooms . Enjoy all the sights and sounds ladies ! 

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, knehrke said:

I applaud you for your tolerance and understanding. I'm sure God will smite the wicked soon.

You should learn to tolerate my intolerance, since to tolerate means to accept the intolerable.

It's all about normalizing the abnormal.

 

BTW, CV-19 and rampant crime have hit the city pretty hard, no?

Edited February 23, 2021 by Grouse

[wolc123]

The NY state parks have done a terrific job on the unisex bathrooms the last few years.  Never have the bathrooms been in better shape or cleaner.   That makes it much better for tent camping and those with small truck campers like me.

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by wolc123

[Dinsdale]

39 minutes ago, knehrke said:

I applaud you for your tolerance and understanding. I'm sure God will smite the wicked soon.

How many times you gonna see "smite" on a hunting forum?

Good stuff.

[Five Seasons]

9 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

 

Lots of clubs years ago in NYc had unisex bathrooms. Urinals and stalls.


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and the world ended correct?

[Five Seasons]

46 minutes ago, Nomad said:

There are no, men’s and women’s bathrooms in any firehouse where I worked . Same for bunk rooms . Enjoy all the sights and sounds ladies ! 

explains all the news coverage over the scandalous and nefarious firehouses we read about weekly.

[Buckmaster7600]

Lots of clubs years ago in NYc had unisex bathrooms. Urinals and stalls.


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Don’t think many of our young daughters were also using those bathrooms.

Big difference between a club and Walmart.


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[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

You should learn to tolerate my intolerance, since to tolerate means to accept the intolerable.

It's all about normalizing the abnormal.

 

BTW, CV-19 and rampant crime have hit the city pretty hard, no?

It doesnt work that way with zim.

[BizCT]

29 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Don’t think many of our young daughters were also using those bathrooms.

Big difference between a club and Walmart.


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I don't agree with it. I was just saying it's not new.

[Shoots100]

Until you get your chromosomes genetically changed, your whatever your chromosomes say you are.

There is no normal anymore.

Normalcy is boring and no one want's to be boring.

Who cares if a man that dresses like a woman breaks all of the standing records held by a genetically correct woman ?

It's wrong and I'm waiting for the time when an adult tries out for a little league team.

Will there be an uproar when a 21 year old breaks every little league record ?

Will I hear the cries of the whining parents saying that it's wrong ?

Should there be age restrictions in sports, since we don't care about gender restrictions anymore ?

See what happens when you open the door to idiocy. 

 

 

 

[Steve D]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

The NY state parks have done a terrific job on the unisex bathrooms the last few years.  Never have the bathrooms been in better shape or cleaner.

So you have checked them all out???     Asking for a friend 

 

[left field]

Maybe gender is best left on the down low.

Gender-reveal device explosion kills father-to-be.